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| Thread: Natural? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted January 11, 2016 08:26 PM |
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I vastly prefer natural all the way. It has 'seemed' (idk if it is true or not) that unlike most men I don't give a flip about make-up, no matter the form. I think of it has paint-like and not <ahem> enhancement. Fake anything is just fake and I like learning the beauty of the inside of people and could care less about modified looks.
I remember once someone said; "The U.S. economy would tank if all women woke up and felt great about themselves as they exist without any aid." Now, men are doing the same. Sorry, but I think this is simply a sad and sorry business that has done nothing but get worse, since men designed high-heels for women to blindly and willingly hurt their feet.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 11, 2016 09:26 PM |
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But that's beside the point of OP who said, he doesn't understand why people diss artificial beauty when natural beauty is just an "I win" ticket someone got at birth, while artificially acquiring the same beauty is "cheating".
He also says that rich-born are snobs who look down on people who actually made their hands dirty to get wealthy.
I agree with him that it's kind of a hypocracy. Imo, helping with good looks is just like helping with strength by picking up a weapon. It's the human way to not just roll on your back and concede, just because nature treated you worse than others.
Say you have an accident and suffer "damage". Let's say, you have a crappy nose, your nose gets more or less destroyed and has to be rebuilt. Would you have to rebuilt it as it was? Or can it be more beautiful than the original? In the latter case - why would you have to wait for an accident?
Now, say you just look average, why wait until someone mangles your face to correct a few things it to make it look better?
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 10:41 AM |
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JJ brought a good point.
I personally have nothing against plastic surgery. Obviously, excessive surgery is bad, because it just looks terrible. And, risky surgeries are also not worth it. But something like the ear correction, when someone is born with prominent ears - why not? I see no reason to defend natural look if natural look is bad in the first place.
The tricky question here is breast surgery. I think this one gets a lot of negative attention. For several good reasons: health risks, and (sometimes) sort of an artificial look of the breast afterwards. If done right however it isn't easy to spot, and it obviously looks way better than small, saggy breasts. What strikes me here is that people will often call girls with "fixed" breasts fake and plastic, but drool over girls who just won a lottery at birth to get genes for firm breasts. In other words - can't be natural because people are turned off by saggy breasts, but can't be artificial either because "it's unnatural" - screwed either way. What's left to do, "love yourself" for what you are? Well, too bad it basically limits you so much social-wise that it's more akin to fooling yourself that it's fine.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 13, 2016 11:01 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 11:18, 13 Jan 2016.
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If you plan on making babies then the genetics aka the natural beauty might be important to you.
If it is a simple nose-job or a boob-job then it shouldn't be that big of an issue. But people tend to be prejudiced. And scared. It is a difficult stigma to get over, maybe because the media loves scandals and surgery gone wrong is popular... or those people who misuse surgery to look like clowns. Or simply that someone looks suddenly completely different. It makes some people feel at unease.
Like lets say Renee Zellweger
She looks absolutely beautiful, no doubt. But there is something disturbing when someone changes so much that you can't recognize them anymore. Takes some time for people to get used to.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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fred79
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posted January 13, 2016 11:36 AM |
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from my experience, it is people who aren't satisfied with themselves, that "enhance" themselves. tattoo's, plastic surgery, dying hair, various body modifications... the list goes on and on. i, for one, don't like tattoo's on a girl. it might look cool, but i see it as trying to impress someone or attempting to display to the world your beliefs through damaging/poisoning your skin. both of which, imo, are character flaws; and they could only be scratching the surface, as it were. 
usually, the surface tells a pretty good story of what is underneath. with fake enhancements, these points become evident(singly, mixed, or altogether):
1. "i think i'm special and unique."
2. "i hate myself, deep down."
3. "i'm not good enough. i have to impress people so that they'll like me."
4. "i can't get this ________ unless i look a certain way." (goes back to being accepted, really)
5. "i don't know who i am."
6. "i have a point to make. my point is so important i need to make it visual and/or permanent. i want everyone to know who i am, and be able to see it across the street, if possible."
7. "everyone has a tattoo/everyone who is anyone has _________. i should get one too, to fit in."
8. "by displaying myself this way, people will know i am interesting and they will want to talk to me/be me/have me be a part of their life." (i've seen plenty of this. people trying too hard does not make them interesting. on the contrary, it makes them rather dull and unexciting)
there are other points that can be made, i'm sure; but these are all i can think of atm.
to address the op, i agree, that being born beautiful requires no work. but they also didn't ASK to be born beautiful. it was something that was beyond their control. what happens to beautiful people after they are born, is besides the point, really. personally, i don't like beautiful people, since because of how humans and society is/are; beautiful people have the world by the balls. they have it easy, and most likely won't have to actually work for a living. they tend to have very snowty personalities because of this. ugly people, i've found, have to work much harder to accomplish the same things that beautiful people can, just by being beautiful(i'm obviously not addressing intellect here ).
that said, there are drawbacks to beauty. being beautiful, one would have to struggle, if they wanted any self-respect(not counting snobs, of course). having things handed to you all the time, could make you miss out on life and life-changing experiences of greater or lesser value, depending. being beautiful would make it hard to not get noticed(which could be a problem if you're shy/introverted by nature). beautiful people have physically damaged themselves and even killed themselves because they were beautiful, and found it to be hollow(which it can be, depending). but then, people have done the same for being ugly, so i guess that doesn't really matter.
anyway, i'm rambling. everyone knows beauty is in the eye of the beholder(as trite as that sounds). the points i've made can really be applied to anyone; but i've found that they apply much more to people who enhance their bodies. i have seen so many failures as people, because they were too worried about their image; which i think, is one sickness among humans and society at large. because it all boils down to ego; and displays of ego are annoying, to me. even when i display mine. i realize everyone wants to be loved or known, but they shouldn't have to change themselves physically to feel that they are accepted; or adversely, to stand out from the crowd.
tldr; be yourself, and be satisfied with who you are, naturally. life is too short to worry about what others accept, or don't. society is largely stupid anyway, so impressing them should come secondary to caring about yourself, as yourself.
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alcibiades
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of Gold Dragons
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posted January 13, 2016 11:50 AM |
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I'm against plastic surgery for two reasons, one is more idealistic, one is more pragmatic. From an idealistic viewpoint, I'm against the idea that we put so much emphasis on looks that we can't accept the way we are from birth and want to change into something else - most frequently something very stereotypical (high cheek bones, large lips, large boops, etc.). From a pragmatic point of view, as others have also pointed out, the result is rarely very good - occasionally in the short run, but rarely in the long run. There are cases of discrete to moderate plastic surgery that has worked well, but there seems to be a tendency of people to overdo it to the extreme after which they just look - well, plastic-surgeried.
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 11:52 AM |
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fred79 said:
life is too short to worry about what others accept, or don't. society is largely stupid anyway, so impressing them should come secondary to caring about yourself, as yourself.
Problem is that whether we worry or not, "impression" directly influences the outcome of pretty much EVERYTHING we do.
@alci
What I don't basically get is that accepting that one is dumb, lazy, or poor is generally accepted as weakness, lack of will to change things, but accepting that one's ugly is a sign of strength and maturity.
Why...?
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William
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LummoxLewis
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posted January 13, 2016 12:09 PM |
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But what is ugly to you MAY NOT be to somebody else. Yeah someone might be born with really weird ears and weird looks that would be weird to us but someone out there will appreciate them for who they are so why change just to fit into a norm? Be yourselves, be unique. We aren't perfect so why try to be?
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 13, 2016 12:11 PM |
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Minion said:
Like lets say Renee Zellweger
http://www.insideedition.com/images/stories/1410/9122.jpg
She looks absolutely beautiful, no doubt. But there is something disturbing when someone changes so much that you can't recognize them anymore. Takes some time for people to get used to.
To me the woman on the left looks like a nice looking and charming woman, while the woman on the right looks cold, robotic, and unattractive, but maybe it's just me.
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fred79
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posted January 13, 2016 12:17 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 12:22, 13 Jan 2016.
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Doomforge said:
fred79 said:
life is too short to worry about what others accept, or don't. society is largely stupid anyway, so impressing them should come secondary to caring about yourself, as yourself.
Problem is that whether we worry or not, "impression" directly influences the outcome of pretty much EVERYTHING we do.
which is why it would make more sense to be genuine, than to look or appear fake. agencies and people who are more likely to accept people who obviously enhance themselves, are enabling that behavior and the idea that "you can never be good enough, without enhancements". and because fads tend to try to outdo one another, the effect is becoming more and more like a human freakshow. people are changing sexes now, ffs. surely, because of "progress", and how snowballs tend to roll downhill and gather speed and weight, they will attempt to change species in the future. animal enhancements will be the next thing, i have no doubt. we already have robotic enhancements. come to think of it, we already have animal enhancements(the freaks who get scales, bumps, tails, forked tongues, radical eye surgery/tattoo's, horns, etc. this also includes people who wear fake tails, paws, and ears. FFS.  )
the very idea that "you aren't good enough" is what keeps people buying snow they don't need(which wastes their money, consumes the resources of the earth more rapidly, and creates more unnecessary garbage). the idea itself, keeps people from becoming better at being themselves(actually IMPROVING who they are. and this applies to society as a whole). the idea touts itself as improvement, when really, it is anything but.
but i understand, that this is all just an extension of human ego anyway. it'll never stop as long as the ego is in place. society only helps to reinforce the ego; and the idea that you can be better with enhancements, is only one of many ways in which it succeeds.
now, i don't lump in people who have lost limbs or senses and then gained them back through enhancements; because they had what was lost before, and it would only make them feel more like themselves again.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 13, 2016 12:21 PM |
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@Galaad. For me they are both beautiful. I just don't know how I would react if someone I knew changed so drastically.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 12:32 PM |
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William said:
But what is ugly to you MAY NOT be to somebody else. Yeah someone might be born with really weird ears and weird looks that would be weird to us but someone out there will appreciate them for who they are so why change just to fit into a norm? Be yourselves, be unique. We aren't perfect so why try to be?
#reachforthestars
@fred
at least replacements are something you can have a word in. Genetics is 100% luck. I don't understand how one can be proud of something they took no part in, but that's just me 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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fred79
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posted January 13, 2016 12:40 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 12:42, 13 Jan 2016.
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Doomforge said:
@fred
at least replacements are something you can have a word in. Genetics is 100% luck. I don't understand how one can be proud of something they took no part in, but that's just me
pride is overrated, and just a result/extension of ego. people who are filled with pride, probably annoyed the living snow out of a lot of people on their way to feeling so.
regardless, i'll take a superhero ability enhancement, if they come out with that.  (just imagine, everyone in the world having super powers. the battles would be epic! )
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 12:45 PM |
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Well, pride in the long run is more or less necessary to feel fulfillment about your life. And without fulfillment you're more prone to multiple psychical disorders like depression.
I have a feeling that many people here try to separate brain chemistry from our lives; that's not how it works. By saying that "looks don't matter" we're kidding ourselves, or not looking broad enough on the subject - even if we somewhat convinced ourselves that they don't, completely bypassing brain chemistry and biology, we're still statistically insignificant. They matter for most. And it's the most that defines how societies mostly look like. We live in those societies, mostly under their rules, and many of our actions are direct consequences of those rules.
For example, we may not get a job we wanted, because the recruiter decided we're not pretty enough. It is completely detached from what one thinks on the matter of beauty, but affects his/hers life nonetheless.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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fred79
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posted January 13, 2016 01:08 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:10, 13 Jan 2016.
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/somewhat off-topic @ doomforge: i understand how society works, but i'm an idealist. which means, that "how society works", doesn't have to be set in stone. i believe that human beings can supercede biology and evolution, both.
i mean, look at the things they believe in now, or have, in the past. they are capable of anything they put their minds to. it is their beliefs alone, that even created a society, and it is their beliefs alone, that keep it going in the same stale circle.
when people tell me that "that is the way things are, you have to deal with it", i wonder how they could be so narrow-minded. maybe it is that same narrow-mindedness that allows for the focus of such cyclic beliefs to be able to exist in the first place? i'm not sure. what i AM sure of, is that we all have the power to change, should we want to. what gets me, is that people tend to focus on insignificant things to change, like their appearance; instead of things that could positively alter the unending cycle of uselessness that human society exhibits.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 13, 2016 01:15 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:39, 13 Jan 2016.
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Doomforge said:
By saying that "looks don't matter" we're kidding ourselves, or not looking broad enough on the subject - even if we somewhat convinced ourselves that they don't, completely bypassing brain chemistry and biology, we're still statistically insignificant. They matter for most.
How so? I mean unless you want to go for a model career they don't much. Science job related? Needs brains. Teaching job related? Needs knowledge. Artistic job related? Needs talent. Sport job related? Needs good (healthy) physical condition. And the list goes on.
Or yes there is sentimental life, and us guys are lucky here as most women don't see looks the same as we do, I've seen many times stunning women dating ugly men, but yes rarely the opposite.
Quote:
For example, we may not get a job we wanted, because the recruiter decided we're not pretty enough. It is completely detached from what one thinks on the matter of beauty, but affects his/hers life nonetheless.
What if the employer likes fat chicks?
Seriously though, if an employer hires the good looking one instead of the competent one, he'll be the only one to blame when his society goes bankrupt.
@Minion: I think I'd feel sad for him, as in what have you done with yourself?.
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 01:19 PM |
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fred79 said:
when people tell me that "that is the way things are, you have to deal with it", i wonder how they could be so narrow-minded.
I wouldn't call it narrow-minded, more like realistic. You can't really detach atavistic mechanisms from the mind... without some sort of deusex-esque nano-engineering or other science-fiction, which kinda beats the purpose of being natural in the first place
Galaad said:
What if the employer likes fat chicks?
It's not a question of what he likes. If he intends for his employees to look good, he will go with the general opinion of what looks good. Dress code usually doesn't originate from boss' opinions on what looks good on guys or girls, too. A good example would a be a salesman; many employers look for good looking (NOT subjectively..) people because it's proven that they make a better impression on the opposite sex by default.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 13, 2016 01:28 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Dress code usually doesn't originate from boss' opinions on what looks good on guys or girls, too.
Oh yes, that of course, I confused myself and thought you were still referring to plastic surgery here, not dress code.
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Doomforge
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posted January 13, 2016 01:35 PM |
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Dress code is a nice example of a vision that's "enforced by society".
Do I think that a worker in a suit looks elegant behind a desk? nope, honestly, I think he kinda looks like a clown. Suit works for an elegant party. But my opinion on the subject doesn't matter; the majority has a different opinion. I either stay away from jobs that have dress code (which is sadly the majority), or submit to their ways.
Looks are the same. Most women, for example, dislike bald/balding men. If you thicken your hair pharmaceutically having that in mind, are you shallow? or are you just going by their opinions anyway, because it might benefit you in the long run? Sure they are chicks that like bald guys, but you're just having much more higher potential success rate with curing your balding spots.
Take 1000 women and ask them to rate male's attractiveness and the one with attributes that are commonly associated with maleness (such as adequate height, thick hair, masculine body - depending on cultural preference of course, it might not be like that for Pygmys) will come on top every time.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 13, 2016 01:38 PM |
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What I think is that if a girl won't date you for the sole reason you're bald you're not missing much.
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