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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Community creation effort
Thread: Community creation effort This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2016 09:47 AM
Edited by MattII at 09:57, 17 Mar 2016.

I've got to say, I'm against an Egyptian Necropolis, reason being, Egypt has so many cool creatures that making all the creatures undead feels disrespectful. Give them their own town.

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Kimarous
Kimarous


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 09:49 AM

Well, I was leaning in a mostly Egyptian flavour with my Ziggurat faction, just with a slight savannah twist. Was thinking of a chariot unit, but didn't know where to stick it. Judging from the comments, I take it people are approving of my faction?

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted March 17, 2016 09:53 AM

MattII said:
May I have Necropolis please?


totally!

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted March 17, 2016 09:57 AM

The problem is that the Egyptian theme is enough to fill multiple factions by itself so giving some factions only a hint of the Egyptian theme does not do it service.
On the other hand if you can make it work then it doesn't matter at all.
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2016 10:01 AM
Edited by MattII at 10:58, 17 Mar 2016.

Kimarous said:
Well, I was leaning in a mostly Egyptian flavour with my Ziggurat faction, just with a slight savannah twist. Was thinking of a chariot unit, but didn't know where to stick it. Judging from the comments, I take it people are approving of my faction?
Gonna say, swap the Jackalman and Gnoll, and change the names to something like:
Gnoll Hunter > Gnoll Warrior
Jackal Guard > Anubite
Oh, and give the Lamasu the buffing spells, it'll make it more different from the Manticore.

kiryu133 said:
totally!
Thanks.

fuChris said:
The problem is that the Egyptian theme is enough to fill multiple factions by itself so giving some factions only a hint of the Egyptian theme does not do it service.
Oh it's more than a hint.

Also, are we just doing creatures, or are we including faction skills as well?

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 17, 2016 11:14 AM

So, we have been thinking for quite some time and we have finally decided (Me and Articun, as a power duo we will make together a faction ) to make Temple faction.

Temple will be mesoamerican faction with jungle/tropical forests setting

But we would also like to reserve Conflux

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 11:51 AM

fuChris said:
The problem is that the Egyptian theme is enough to fill multiple factions by itself so giving some factions only a hint of the Egyptian theme does not do it service.
On the other hand if you can make it work then it doesn't matter at all.


Egypt having much creatures too choose from?

Uhm, from all my mythology monsters, Egypt is rather lacking in good creatures.


Most creatures DO suit with Necropolis in one way or another, and most of Egypts creatures are Gods.


- Ammit
- Sphinx (multiple versions)
- Sak (wingless griffon with flower on end of tail, said to be lotus flower)
- Salawa or Set Beast
- Ichneumon and Leontophone (two mongoose like creatures that have special enemies they kill, Leontophone kills cats and Ichneumon reptiles and dragons)
- Axex, lord of the griffons.
- Serpopard, having both leopard and serpent features.
- Phoenix, but that bird comes from EVERYWHERE.
- Bennu Bird, boring move on
- Petsuchos
- Mummy
- Ushabti (small mummies)
- Scarab Beetles
- Hypnalis (the white cobra that put Cleopatra to death in her sleep)

That's about it.














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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 11:56 AM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 12:20, 17 Mar 2016.

alcibiades said:
I'll throw in a short thought here. I know this might come off as very negative, and my intentions are not to ruin the good atmosphere, BUT: I think if we want to recreate the original magic and charm of the heroes series, we need to go back to more iconic/mythological creatures, and less creatures that have names that either are clearly made-up creatures that hardly anyone recognizes (Jubokko? Sianach?) or are so generic that they could be anything (Watcher? Silent Brother?).

If you look at H1-2, you'd know* pretty much 100 % of the creatures if you were familiar with common European and Greek mythology and a bit of Middle Eastern mythology and Tolkien. For H3-4, this is still true for the vast majority of creatures, even though a few creatures like Naga, Efreet, Gnoll and Gorgon fall outside this category.

I think as time has gone by, and with each subsequent inferior version of the game, it has been increasingly clear to me how important this naïve and fairytale-like element of the original games was to the games identity.


* And by "knowing", I mean: You'd be able to visualize the creature and its role in combat even without seeing it, simply by hearing its name.



LOL! With other words just use the dull creatures that have been used like 10.000 times before.

If you look up the internet, you see that Sianach and Jubokko are UPCOMING mythology creatures, more and more people start to recognize them and draw them.

They aren't any different from the ones that D&D made famous (Minotaur, Naga and all that other overused stuff), those creatures are just lucky because they come from milked out greek mythology or were used by D&D, if you never give new creatures a chance than you are a mega bore to me.

Generic? You mean as generic like a girl with a fishtail and a griffon with horse parts?

And btw, Jubokko and Sianach aren't made up, they are from mythology, just like your beloved Mermaid.



EDIT

If you need inspiration for creatures visit my other project: Mythika, if the mythological creatures don't inspire you, maybe the awesome artworks will.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted March 17, 2016 12:14 PM

MattII said:
I've got to say, I'm against an Egyptian Necropolis, reason being, Egypt has so many cool creatures that making all the creatures undead feels disrespectful. Give them their own town.


Absolutely agree with you. Vampires and their ilk belong in dirt not sand. Besides why not makes use of dirt, mold, moss etc? - far better to enhance decay.(thinking of that wrought-iron too)

Place the faction where it grew historically in tale...eastern Europe. <imo> A Transylvanian landscape sounds about as good as it could ever get.

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 12:22 PM

Quote:
Love the bloody sylvan  




Thanks mate!

And did I miss something? Elvin and Alcibicias both left the moderator grounds? :-S

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted March 17, 2016 01:02 PM

Rakshasa92 said:

Egypt having much creatures too choose from?

Uhm, from all my mythology monsters, Egypt is rather lacking in good creatures.


The number of creatures is not a good indication when judging a faction since there are probably dozens if not hundreds of creatures/myths you don't know about which are in many cases just variations of each other. What is more important is the richness of the theme from which they are derived from.
In my book any faction that has its origins in a polytheistic culture is a good one. The fact that Ubi managed to mess up a perfectly good Buddhist setting in necropolis is not proof of the contrary.
In Ancient Egypt's case there are multiple major (and countless minor) gods that could form a basis around which you could base the faction. You could also make a differentiation between good, evil and neutral gods if you want to go with the simplistic rout. But I can easily imagine a Heroes style game filled with just factions based around a single mythology.
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 01:13 PM

fuChris said:
Rakshasa92 said:

Egypt having much creatures too choose from?

Uhm, from all my mythology monsters, Egypt is rather lacking in good creatures.


The number of creatures is not a good indication when judging a faction since there are probably dozens if not hundreds of creatures/myths you don't know about which are in many cases just variations of each other. What is more important is the richness of the theme from which they are derived from.
In my book any faction that has its origins in a polytheistic culture is a good one. The fact that Ubi managed to mess up a perfectly good Buddhist setting in necropolis is not proof of the contrary.
In Ancient Egypt's case there are multiple major (and countless minor) gods that could form a basis around which you could base the faction. You could also make a differentiation between good, evil and neutral gods if you want to go with the simplistic rout. But I can easily imagine a Heroes style game filled with just factions based around a single mythology.


Egypt mythology creatures are mostly really famous, so I don't think I forgot about 10.000 creatures from that mythology.

Egyptians didn't really care for creatures, they rather made up 10.000 Gods instead.

And I'm having a hard time to understand what you are saying, but you like to have factions that keep to a single mythology? Such as all Greek monsters in Dungeon and all Egyptian monsters in desert towns?

I'm against that, HOMM isn't real world mythology, so mixing creatures together that suit the environment is awesome. Why put all norse creatures together? or all Egyptian ones?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 17, 2016 06:44 PM

Rakshasa92 said:
LOL! With other words just use the dull creatures that have been used like 10.000 times before.

Yes, that is exactly my point. The thing that made Heroes great was never the creativity or innovation in creature line-ups. Quite on the contrary. One of the things that made Heroes great was its atmosphere, and part of that atmosphere was exactly that it drew upon those very familiar creatures - Unicorns, Dragons, Griffins, Minotaurs, Trolls, etc.

I think drawing on the creature designs from other games and universes is a mistake, because it just makes this game feel like a cheap copy, and furthermore it takes the game away from its original base which was the classic mythology and folklore and instead take it to a more modern fantasy setting, which inevitably makes it compare unfavorably to other similar games.
____________
What will happen now?

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 17, 2016 06:50 PM

Although Alcibiades, you have a very limited pool of creatures to choose from, from Greek/Roman, Egyptian and Fairy Tale material. So, i am not saying that we shouldn;t use the iconic ones as you say, but slowly introduce new ones. This is something i have also stressed to Raksasha in Minastir and mine work in Inolin. We need to use the iconic or familiar units and fill the blanks with new ones, so that people can acknowledge what they know and then get interested to learn about the new ones.

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leiah2
leiah2


Known Hero
posted March 17, 2016 08:23 PM
Edited by leiah2 at 20:49, 17 Mar 2016.

I think it's good to have a couple of factions with the traditional lineups but if you have a new faction they could be innovative. Also, yeah sure a Silent Brother could be anything but I also have not gotten far with pictures and descriptions just yet, you will get to see soon.

But I do not think this was the reason Heroes 6 and 7 failed so horribly...

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 08:33 PM

Only boring people wish for the same stuff over and over again. Even HOMM7 tried at least to add some new stuff (they failed horribly though, but that is because the new creatures didn't come from cool myths)

I can't have sympathy for people that keep on living in the old and never want something new. They are like my arch nemesis.

There are so much more ideas, mythology, fantasy and cool stuff beyond the boring Elves, Mermaids, Hippogriffs, D&D Dragons, and other such crap. You just have to open your imagination and your limited mind will find its way to open space.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 17, 2016 11:00 PM

I am entitled to having my opinion, just as you are entitled to having yours. You don't have to agree with me, but it would be nice if you more civil when stating your opinion.

@Articun:

Of course those creatures can only take us so far, but still, but if one continues the trend of having about 2-3 racial units in each faction (which I'm in favor of as a general rule of thumb), that would theoretically still leave us with a rather large surplus to fill the remaining spots from if one just looks to what was in H3 for a start.

And for the record, I'm not against adding units that have not been in previous games - all I'm saying is that I think it's important that the unit we add have a strong foundation somewhere, which can be in mythology or can be in general fantasy.
____________
What will happen now?

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2016 11:45 PM

The race-based units where the worst thing that ever happened to HOMM games.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted March 18, 2016 01:10 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 13:45, 18 Mar 2016.

Please be civil and no attacking people's tastes.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 18, 2016 01:15 PM

kiryu133 said:
Ok, I warned ya all. Posts regarding legitimacy (or whatever) off mythological creatures will be deleted tomorrow. Until then you have time to create a new thread for it and copy your posts/thoughts there.


Why? Unless the posts are offensive, i don't see any reason why they should be deleted as they portray the thoughts and ideas of each creator and can create a constructive and creative dialog that may or may not change the ideas of someone else in the project. Alcibiades is not wrong in what he says, neither is Rksasha. They have two polar ideas (or so it seems) but in sharing them maybe they can find middle ground.

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