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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: HoMM IV Playing against Death , need some tips :)
Thread: HoMM IV Playing against Death , need some tips :)
Putuch
Putuch

Tavern Dweller
posted March 14, 2016 02:17 AM

HoMM IV Playing against Death , need some tips :)

Hello - after a long time of playing HoMM 3 on HD and HoTA i decided to pick up my good old Homm IV disc and try some multiplayer ( which i used to play on gameranger long ago ).

Here i'd like to get some of Your advice on how to counter/play vs Death (damn vampires and undead!) as Life or Chaos but any other castle is fine too though.

I've been lurking for some time now , im sure it's been here already but i guess more people could use this thread.

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Baronus
Baronus


Legendary Hero
posted March 14, 2016 11:04 AM

The first thing is to eliminate vampyres because they regenerate health and you have big loses, vampyres zero... All units to attack vampyres. Second but more powerfull is bone dragon. No counterattack. Two most danger creatures. You can use slow if you can to shot. Its very helpfull. All faction has another spells, so you must see for spellbook. Eg. mages summons skleton. You can use it to receive counterattack.

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted March 14, 2016 02:27 PM

A lot of people don't like them, but crusaders were always my favorite anti-vampire unit. Plus they look so cool

For chaos, I'd avoid nightmares because their terror spell won't work. Hydras are always nice with the no retaliation but I dragons work well too.

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Putuch
Putuch

Tavern Dweller
posted March 15, 2016 01:04 AM

I see , that's pretty legit. But wouldn't it be wise to avoid attacking vampires with the weaker units? Otherwise it will be feeding on em.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 16, 2016 11:07 PM

That depends. You could Sacrifice' weaker troops at first attack against vamps, like squires, but if you attack with crusaders afterwards, vamps can't retaliate against your crusaders, thus you keep your stronger stack alive for more dmg. Sure the vamps might suck more life out of the squires compared to the dmg. they rechieve, but crusaders could make it up for that with 2x full dmg.
Also make use of creature abilities like hydra no retal. Good for 1st attack. Also Efreets fire shield will hurt the vamps back. With vamps it's basically the faster you can reduce their size, the harder it is for them to regenerate.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 16, 2016 11:15 PM

Pikemen are also quite useful as they can attack from a distance or ballista as they can't be life drained. Facing ghosts, I would also recommend a fast kill, as aging ability can turn the tide. You basically just need stacks of 1 ghost to age a stack.

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vulcancolak
vulcancolak


Famous Hero
posted March 21, 2016 07:06 AM

If you can, try to select haven. Otherwise, focus the Vampires first. NEVER trust your ranged units because in the 2 rounds they can easily fly close to the ranged units.

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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted March 23, 2016 06:26 AM bonus applied by kiryu133 on 03 Jun 2016.
Edited by TheUnknown at 22:39, 23 Mar 2016.

What works against Death faction?

Life:

Do not use level 1 units against Death in the main battle unless you really don't have other option. From level 2 only the Balista is viable because they cannot fear it or Life Drain it or Age it and so on ... but even then, you should avoid using the level 2 units.

In my opinion picking Crusaders and Champions is best, you need good melee damage against Death units. Champions are better than Angels for me because they don't suffer much from the spell "Hand of Death" plus if Bone Dragons hit them, they move them and when Champions run back to them, their bones are going to have a bad time.

Using Order magic on the enemy tactics hero to Dispel (and kill) or Hypnotize him is a great and fast way to cripple enemy Vampires and Bone Dragons. Note that Death faction can use this strategy too, so be careful. Nature magic is great for mass speed, getting that first strike with Champions and max movement may prove fatal for the enemy even on the start of the game. Be careful of Chaos magic mostly because of the Disintegrate spell.

I recommend using warden, monk, paladin and 2 more heroes depending on your personal style or any intelligence on enemy strategy. For example if he goes more towards Chaos magic you can get at least one more monk.

Order:

Take Dragon Golems and Genies and if you have to bring lower level units take Gold Golems. Ice bolt is great against Vampires, Create Ilussion isn't bad all around too, the First Strike combined with Mechanical is very effective against Death spells and creatures. Take care against Disintegrate and Pain Mirror for your Dragon Golems.

For heroes I recommend monk, shadow mage and crusader and the rest 2 can depend on map, enemies, your style etc

Chaos:

Black Dragons only, plus Efreets and maybe plus Minotaurs depending on map. The more the heroes, the more happiness for the Chaos faction. Black Dragons because of stats and immunity against many Death strategies and even your own Chaos magic damage. Efreets for Fire Shield against Vampires. Minotaurs for Block but note that if the block fails they are a very good Life Drain source so avoid them unless the map has minimal leveling potential.

I would focus on Mass Cancellation and Chaos damage, Disintegrate on tactical hero is very game bending. You need to be very careful about Hypnotize, I even make two tactical heroes one for Offense other for Defense so if they Hypnotize or kill one, my Black Dragons will still put up a fight.

I recommend 2 tactics heroes with magic skills, fireguard, assassin and 1-2 depending on circumstances.

Death:

Go Vampires and Bone Dragons and maybe Ghosts if the map is poor with leveling opportunities. Its obvious how many advantages the undead have when fighting undead and specially the Death faction.

Focus a bit more on Chaos magic as Order or Death magic are very limited against undead, on the other hand they are good against the heroes but here Chaos is decent too.

I recommend wizard, necromancer (probably assassin) and death knight (field marshal in the long run) and 1-2 more heroes (can be pyromancer and/or wizard)

Nature:

Faeries and Mantises or Phoenixes and Water Elementals. Level 3 are very bad against the Death faction so avoid them or if you must take them, pick Griffins and focus on killing the enemy heroes before the guys with no retaliation and/or Life Drain reduce you to bits while restoring their fallen numbers.

Take care for level 5 enemy spells on Mantises can be very problematic, Hand of Death, Hypnotize and even Disintegrate ... I believe that the key strategy should be to focus on fast offense with Chaos Magic, Disintegrate, Mass Misfortune is one of the best spells in your arsenal against Death because if they try to remove it they have to use Mass Dispel. Cat Reflexes can be used in some quick anti hero scenarios. Life is good for Divine Intervention and ward spells but care with wards or any other buff as it may be stolen. Nature is good for Mass Speed, Mass Fortune and Summon Mantis.

I recommend warden, fireguard, paladin and 2 more (focus on Chaos magic)

Might:

Behemoths a bit more than Thunderbirds, Thunderbirds are only better if you manage to kill important heroes with them. With Behemoths on the other hand you won't mind "one-shotting" the Vampires before starting the a bit harder fight with the bonies. Cyclops are a no-brainer as a second creature choice, if the map is low on leveling possibilities you might even consider splitting the cyclops into two stacks so you can easily eliminate the enemy heroes.

Might doesn't have much access to magic and having Magic Resistance is not always the best way to counter casters. Some caster countering strategies are "1-2 stacks of Thunderbirds" or "1-2 stacks of Cyclops" or "Heroes with Grandmaster Archery" or "Heroes with Dispel, Cancel or Steal Enchantment". There are rarely other options to counter casters with Might faction.

I recommend assassin, warden and 1-3 heroes like fireguard, paladin etc. depending on the situation.

Well I thinks this is enough ... for now

Cheers

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 23, 2016 12:10 PM

Karmakeld

I'll just add that you can't hypnotize the undead, unless you have a certain artifact that allows you to ignore that.

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scythesong
scythesong


Adventuring Hero
posted April 19, 2016 09:12 PM
Edited by scythesong at 01:05, 20 Apr 2016.

Summing up theunknown's post (lots of excellent points):

It depends. Death is allied with Chaos and Order, and by using Order/Chaos magic heroes a Death player can mix things up a bit and go for an early/mid game gambit instead of waiting for late game. You will have to change your tactic accordingly, like employing a hero with Chaos Ward against a Death faction player using Sorcerers.

As a general rule you should scout out the enemy death faction ASAP so you have some idea what he/she is trying to do. If playing in a small low resource map, denying them crystal can slow them down somewhat (neither Death hero starts with the Combat skill, and their early game units are squishy). Harassing Death is a good idea for factions with fast/stealthy/powerful magical heroes. Note that Necromancers can cast Cancellation (removes the Potion of Immortality effect) so choose your battles.

Your main strategy is to do everything you possibly can to prevent/delay them from reaching their full late game potential, because once that Necromancer reaches Grandmaster Necromancy/that Death Knight gets decent Combat/Tactics skill levels and they start rampaging across the map then you're pretty much screwed if you try to fight them head on.

As mentioned, in combat it's usually a good idea to kill off the enemy hero with Tactics ASAP. The Death army tactic boils down to using quantity over quality, and the Tactics skill acts as a multiplier for that.

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murderdock
murderdock

Tavern Dweller
posted June 03, 2016 04:48 AM
Edited by murderdock at 04:53, 03 Jun 2016.

I recommend not getting your archers.  Death armies usually have a huge skeleton ball to fight from their necromancy, which archers do poorly against because skeletal.  Also if they go bone dragon they are bad because skeletal.  Even with demons they will likely tele next to your archer stack and take a vicious swipe as soon as the battle starts anyways.  Furthermore, ghosts and vamps can swoop in on your archers very quickly and reduce their effectiveness, especially if they have a death knight with good tactics as is likely.  

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 03, 2016 07:12 AM

There is only one rule when fighting Death as non-Death.
Spells, spells and more spells.
Your main focus is to take out the enemy hero(s) in the first round and after that you need to throw out spells, be it blessings, curses or direct damage ones.

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Bluesky
Bluesky


Adventuring Hero
posted June 11, 2016 06:53 PM

Max out Leadership and Offense,and go with either Nature or Might.Good morale means extra attacks.With Nature you can choose Water Elements and Faerie Dragons,and if you have Mass snake strike,your unstoppable.With Might,you just need extra grouth of creatures,cyclopes and level 4 creatures (doesn't matter if it's the bebemoth or thunderbird).

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ebonheart
ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 11, 2016 06:57 PM

Might is horrible vs Death since by the time you have the growth and gold to buy all new units the vampire stack will be too strong for you to handle.
Nature has a good chance, as does order. Spells = Key, thus leadership for speed is most important.

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Bluesky
Bluesky


Adventuring Hero
posted June 14, 2016 05:46 PM

Yes,but unless Death is using Vampiric Touch and the no retaliation ability on a level 4 creature I wouldn't worry about it.Reaching Grandmaster Necromancy and getting a lot of Vamps takes a lot of time,where at Might they just need the "breeding pens".Mights bebemoths or thunderbirds are ridiculously strong,and some cyclopes with the no ranged penalty ability on a hero is pretty hard to beat.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 14, 2016 06:03 PM

Getting Grand Master Necromancy is a walk in the park and as is getting the vampires (if you said Master/Grand Master demonologist then I would agree with you).
Like I said, Breeding Pens costs a big chunk of gold and more units = more gold required.
But you also seem to overlook the fact that unless there is a tavern or order magic source for your hero, your cyclops will have ranged penalty, but what's worse is that Necropolis might very well bring along a mage hero and dismantle your units.

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Bluesky
Bluesky


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2016 06:18 PM

Ebonheart said:
But you also seem to overlook the fact that unless there is a tavern or order magic source for your hero, your cyclops will have ranged penalty, but what's worse is that Necropolis might very well bring along a mage hero and dismantle your units.


Not really.All the cyclops need are your hero to get the "Crossbow" or the "Sniper's Crossbow" item,which are pretty easy to get.And if the enemy has a mage hero with level 3 magic,all you need is the "exorcism" spell or "dispell" which are both level 1.And even if you don't get basic Life or Order Magic,you can still have those spells by a scroll.









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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 19, 2016 10:13 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 22:15, 19 Jun 2016.

Bluesky said:
Not really.All the cyclops need are your hero to get the "Crossbow" or the "Sniper's Crossbow" item,which are pretty easy to get.And if the enemy has a mage hero with level 3 magic,all you need is the "exorcism" spell or "dispell" which are both level 1.And even if you don't get basic Life or Order Magic,you can still have those spells by a scroll.


Let me get this straight. You think that on every scenario this crossbow will be present. That the Necropolis might not act before you or have more or greater magic than lv 3. That a mere excorism or dispell spell will remove all kinds of problems. Let alone the fact that your heroes cannot be killed or your Cyclops blocked.

Well that's good for you and I wish you the best of luck with that tactic.

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