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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Global Modding: Ashan to the trashcan edition
Thread: Global Modding: Ashan to the trashcan edition This thread is 38 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 31 32 33 34 35 ... 38 · «PREV / NEXT»
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 17, 2016 02:43 PM

I'd make them more detailed, but gotta keep the poly count fairly low, textures and especially the normal map will gonna take care of details. Also, I use 3ds.
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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 17, 2016 06:12 PM

It's not about laziness but budget reasons. Every single dwelling will cost as any other adventure map object. Unfortunately we will never see such large content like H3 or H4 regarding the adv. map. Donít understand me wrong Iím not against the dwellings but I rather want to see more diversity of objects like power-ups, shrines, quests, buildings like Dwarven treasury and Naga bank; Witch Hut (H3) + Library and Veterans Guild (H4) etc.

Your models look really good but I donít know if itís worth to create 56 new dwelling objects (and this is only for the factionsí creatures). Now the game really needs a global balancing mod before anything else, even before the release of ďAshan to the trashcanĒ. The game is too tardy right now.
For instance: imo the health of all creatures/tiers should be decreased so the combat duration will be shorter; the heroesí movement should be increased for more actions per turn. Another thing is to decrease the surrenderís requirement for neutral stacks so not to fight pointless battles for experience next to nothing and as we all know itís hard to trust Limbicís AI auto-combat. I donít know if itís possible though. Another thing in this line is the option to refuse a fight when you realize that the neutrals are stronger than your hero or will cause big casualties. The cancel option is plain stupid imo and should be removed. Only auto-combat and fight should remain when the neutrals are in a fighting mood. Again not sure if itís possible.
For quite some time Iíve been thinking about factionsí playing styles or in that matter the lack of styles and someone brought this in the discussionís thread yesterday. We see the same scheme for all faction: weak, middle and strong unit in core/elite tiers and thatís it, nothing interesting. Imho it should be more about glass cannon, tank, archer, caster/support units.  We canít fix the bugs but we can tweak the stats and add some ability if necessary. But this require new thread dedicated to this topic so other members may contribute with ideas.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Oh, Kiss Me Like Erwin Tonight
posted August 17, 2016 06:49 PM

foxxxer said:
It's not about laziness but budget reasons


sure it's about laziness lol

their laziness in not maximizing the quality of Heroes 6, was a factor in lack of budget lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 17, 2016 06:57 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 18:57, 17 Aug 2016.

foxxxer said:
It's not about laziness but budget reasons. Every single dwelling will cost as any other adventure map object. Unfortunately we will never see such large content like H3 or H4 regarding the adv. map. Donít understand me wrong Iím not against the dwellings but I rather want to see more diversity of objects like power-ups, shrines, quests, buildings like Dwarven treasury and Naga bank; Witch Hut (H3) + Library and Veterans Guild (H4) etc.


I wasn't planning on modelling all dwellings myself, just some of them and the rest can be imported or modified from other map objects. I see what you mean though and I tend to agree, I can repurpose my objects into creature banks or other things. Though I'd like to at least change the idiocy that is "magic menagerie", at least group neutral creatures into better dwellings.

foxxxer said:

Now the game really needs a global balancing mod before anything else, even before the release of ďAshan to the trashcanĒ. The game is too tardy right now.


I bet you know me already , I won't make a mod with Ashan creatures. I will however change a few more things about balance, mainly I will split the 3 tier system into a 7 level system like in older games, they already got a 5-level system among 3 tiers, why not just make 7 like in older games? I'm think I'm gonna focus more on h3-like rapports, though they will need serious testing from volunteers as I don't enjoy playing h7.

foxxxer said:

For instance: imo the health of all creatures/tiers should be decreased so the combat duration will be shorter; the heroesí movement should be increased for more actions per turn.


Or increase their attack/damage. I agree that most units are too beefy and they hit like sh1t. I don't like how weak their are, I mean now most core creatures have attack and defense values of 1/2, while sporting 10+ hp. While I agree that some creatures may be like this to act as cannon fodder, but not all of them.

foxxxer said:

Another thing is to decrease the surrenderís requirement for neutral stacks so not to fight pointless battles for experience next to nothing and as we all know itís hard to trust Limbicís AI auto-combat. I donít know if itís possible though. Another thing in this line is the option to refuse a fight when you realize that the neutrals are stronger than your hero or will cause big casualties. The cancel option is plain stupid imo and should be removed. Only auto-combat and fight should remain when the neutrals are in a fighting mood.


Not sure if cancelling can be removed, but decreasing surrender's requirement for neutrals may be realizable either by changing the formula or by tweaking AI ratings.

foxxxer said:

For quite some time Iíve been thinking about factionsí playing styles or in that matter the lack of styles and someone brought this in the discussionís thread yesterday. We see the same scheme for all faction: weak, middle and strong unit in core/elite tiers and thatís it, nothing interesting. Imho it should be more about glass cannon, tank, archer, caster/support units.  We canít fix the bugs but we can tweak the stats and add some ability if necessary. But this require new thread dedicated to this topic so other members may contribute with ideas.



I'm working on that, I have been trying in the last days to add extra entries on the AI table too, ubilimb has only 4 classes of creatures in AI's mind : fighter, shooter, mage, rogue. I strongly agree that there needs to be more diversity and I have changed a few things, for example : void horror (old wraith) is a glass canon with high attack/damage and low hp/defense, dragon golem has high hp and defense, but lacks in attack/damage, its purpose is act as a tank and soak up damage, faerie dragon is now an offensive spellcaster, fast, but lacking in other stats, unlike ubi's slow spellcasters.
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted August 17, 2016 07:10 PM

The whole dwellings on the adventure map is out of whack anyways. Finding any creature dwelling that isn't a champion unit is rather pointless unless you also own a castle with the corresponding faction. A big part of any heroes game (for me anyways) is finding an array of units on my travels to add to my army. Its important to have a reasonable growth rate so anyone can add that creature to their army if they want to. Since the dawn of Ubi's take over they have not been able to get it right. 3 games later you can finally add neutrals to your army.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 17, 2016 07:40 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 19:40, 17 Aug 2016.

lol limbic Mod h7 and you discover a scrapped idea everyday

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted August 17, 2016 07:43 PM


intriguing
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 17, 2016 07:51 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 19:53, 17 Aug 2016.

Need to open a thread with all those unused things
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted August 17, 2016 08:46 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Need to open a thread with all those unused things

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 17, 2016 08:59 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 21:02, 17 Aug 2016.

verriker said:
foxxxer said:
It's not about laziness but budget reasons


sure it's about laziness lol

their laziness in not maximizing the quality of Heroes 6, was a factor in lack of budget lol


I donít have access to the Ubiís financial book but imo budget was the reason for the lack of content in H6. I doubt that is about laziness but more greediness which triggered bad decisions, major one of which was selection of the developer. Lack of content + incompetent designers and developer + crappy lore = H6 as we know it.


LizardWarrior said:

I wasn't planning on modelling all dwellings myself, just some of them and the rest can be imported or modified from other map objects. I see what you mean though and I tend to agree, I can repurpose my objects into creature banks or other things. Though I'd like to at least change the idiocy that is "magic menagerie", at least group neutral creatures into better dwellings.

Yeah, if you make several dwellings for the neutrals it will be enough. This mausoleum may become a building where you fight Liches for a reward like gold + spell(s). Also when your hero wins may play as a lich dwelling. This approach of multi-functionality may be very interesting considering the scarcity of objects.

LizardWarrior said:

I bet you know me already , I won't make a mod with Ashan creatures. I will however change a few more things about balance, mainly I will split the 3 tier system into a 7 level system like in older games, they already got a 5-level system among 3 tiers, why not just make 7 like in older games? I'm think I'm gonna focus more on h3-like rapports, though they will need serious testing from volunteers as I don't enjoy playing h7.

I see the current division more like 7 level system than 5, just the gap between core/elite/champion is slightly bigger. I personally am for something like 2-2-2-1 system than 3-3-1 or 5 or 7 tier system. And if alternative creatures are included then will become very interesting to plan your strategy. Which brings the question: is it possible to implement in the town building tree to choose 2 out of 3 dwellings instead 1/2 as it now?

LizardWarrior said:

Or increase their attack/damage. I agree that most units are too beefy and they hit like sh1t. I don't like how weak their are, I mean now most core creatures have attack and defense values of 1/2, while sporting 10+ hp. While I agree that some creatures may be like this to act as cannon fodder, but not all of them.

I meant slightly reduction of the health for all creatures. 150 hp for an elite creature or 400-500 for a champion is too much. The core creatures shouldnít exceed 20 or 25 hp for the tanks with some exceptions like golem. Of course they should be tested.

LizardWarrior said:

Not sure if cancelling can be removed, but decreasing surrender's requirement for neutrals may be realizable either by changing the formula or by tweaking AI ratings.

If itís not possible it will pity but we can live with it.

LizardWarrior said:

I'm working on that, I have been trying in the last days to add extra entries on the AI table too, ubilimb has only 4 classes of creatures in AI's mind : fighter, shooter, mage, rogue. I strongly agree that there needs to be more diversity and I have changed a few things, for example : void horror (old wraith) is a glass canon with high attack/damage and low hp/defense, dragon golem has high hp and defense, but lacks in attack/damage, its purpose is act as a tank and soak up damage, faerie dragon is now an offensive spellcaster, fast, but lacking in other stats, unlike ubi's slow spellcasters.

This sounds good.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 18, 2016 08:07 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 20:16, 18 Aug 2016.

Well, I'm starting to get better at this Maybe it should look more ruined and more undead-y

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Moritzbradtke
Moritzbradtke


Known Hero
posted August 18, 2016 09:00 PM

new Building? Looks good (: what does it do

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2016 10:05 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 22:13, 18 Aug 2016.

@lizard

what an amazing guy you are

if you looking for suggestions, i may share my opinion to enchance it:

try using some black on it as a contrast to white, making part of it more distinguishable.. and maybe some ruined parts on purpose, to make it feel... ummm... unliving? yes i acctually dare to use that! unliving building. OR better, undead building! now it sounds necro-ish to my ears also stairs can use some detail



hmm what else? maybe some lamps? those iron, cold looking lamps with a little flame dancing inside.. as if dead is never really dead.

troll edit:maybe some hole to top of dome? .. AND THEN MAYBE SOME LIGHTS COMING DOWN FROM A GREEN SPIDER SYMBOL lol AND MAYBE, MAYBE SPIKES

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lordgraa
lordgraa


Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
HC SUPPORTER
posted August 18, 2016 10:18 PM

Not sure how many details UDK or H7 can handle? I think we should keep ours models "low-poly" am I right, Lizz?

Or do you have some poly count which should not be exeeded?

trollier edit: big erwan head on the altar!
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 18, 2016 10:41 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 23:22, 18 Aug 2016.

The model is less than 4k poly, most creatures in h7 got more than that, ~10k, even 20k+ for some. I believe towns have an even bigger poly count. It's not the problem on how much poly it can have, for example my devil has 48k and it's okay. What I can't is sculpt it in Zbrush for finer details, but I can sculpt a high poly version of it then cook the normal map.

Quote:

try using some black on it as a contrast to white, making part of it more distinguishable.. and maybe some ruined parts on purpose, to make it feel... ummm... unliving? yes i acctually dare to use that! unliving building. OR better, undead building! now it sounds necro-ish to my ears also stairs can use some detail


Yeah, that would work well, I can add some vines and whatnot, maybe break the dome in some spots or scatter some bricks around to make it feel more derelict. A bend column or two would also give it the impression of an abandoned building. Yeah, the stairs could use more detail too, but it's gonna look small on the adventure map, so not sure how visible they will be.

Quote:
hmm what else? maybe some lamps? those iron, cold looking lamps with a little flame dancing inside.. as if dead is never really dead.


I can add a big lamp above the sarcophagus, maybe some chalices/amorphe vases, or even add a human form on the sarcophagus (thing h3's warriors tomb), maybe scatter some bones, a skeleton.

Moritzbradtke said:
new Building? Looks good (: what does it do


not sure yet, either a dwelling or a creature bank

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2016 10:52 PM

Very shiny mausoleum, Liz Who would expect

I was expecting much more dark nuance.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 18, 2016 11:07 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 23:18, 18 Aug 2016.

here, dark and gritty


Quote:
maybe some hole to top of dome? .. AND THEN MAYBE SOME LIGHTS COMING DOWN FROM A GREEN SPIDER SYMBOL lol AND MAYBE, MAYBE SPIKES


Quote:
trollier edit: big erwan head on the altar!


hail erwin

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2016 11:09 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 23:11, 18 Aug 2016.

you name it, shiny, white whatever.. but they acctually have a place in world of dead. white marble is fit to this task

another suggestion: according to history my ancestors used different shapes to repsesent dead ones identity. they look like hats carved in stone and they tell things about whos lying there. so think of it as a story, told by visual things rather then words. maybe you may use this idea? liches are mages, they are powerful and have knowladge and whatnot.. maybe those thing should get visualised in building somehow?  
e
dit:haha i just saw your latest post.. those lag man, instant reminder of acctual h7 necro town oh i hate them so much

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 18, 2016 11:21 PM

You mean like hieroglyphs? I can add them on the columns/sarcophagus and use a normal map to give them some depth, maybe even put some symbols on the dome.

Hmm... I also need a dwelling for the kreegan devils, any suggestions?
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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Forge activist
posted August 18, 2016 11:39 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Well, I'm starting to get better at this


You made TREMENDOUS progress mate!

Now stop this h7 nonsense and come back work on Romanian Town.
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