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| Thread: Creatures gaining XP, what do you think? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 14, 2016 08:28 PM |
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Poll Question:
Creatures gaining XP, what do you think?
OK this is just something I'm curious what folks think about, for a second imagine the brand was in the hands of capable people with sufficient testing time allowed before release, do you like the idea of creatures gaining experience?
It was there in wog but also other successful strategy games uses it, such as Age of Wonders or Civilization.
In my opinion it should be a natural evolution of battle mechanics, things get more depth, units that survive battles get stronger and unlock potential abilities, adding a full other layer to the strategy. I think it is one of the things the newer Heroes titles missed in order to improve the game, I honestly enjoy more a game where my units gains experience through battles than only basic=>upgrade in forts or castle.
So, what do you think?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2016 08:36 PM |
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I don't think it works well with the sort of system Heroes has as in hiring more to make it stronger. In WoG it was always, for me at least, a choice between getting more creatures or leveling up the ones I have, which I don't think is a good thing (unless the stack keeps the levels after increasing but that isn't a good idea either).
That said, I don't think the idea should be completely abandoned as it could prove a good addition to the series. As to how i do not know.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 14, 2016 08:40 PM |
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Not a fan of the idea in a game like heroes, though it works naturally in a game like age of wonders. I'm all for creature specialization that evolves like the H6 artifacts though: A different bonus for levels 1-5, 6-10, 10-15 etc. Maybe even a branching path depending on what results you want your creature 'training' to have.
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted May 14, 2016 08:52 PM |
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This matter wont work too well with how the system works right now. It could easily end up becoming overly complicated if not done correctly, though in theory it is not impossible.
It could work if you also changes how units works. One way could be to replace the concept of unit stacks with single units, similar to how endless legend does it. The result of this would make units more valueble, but also stronger as even a relative low level unit would be able to take a hit from a top tier unit (giving they they are the same level), though the top tier would be a ton of damage.
Edit: Also, if enough XP is earned by a unit, it could get the offer to be upgraded in a town with the correct building constructed or at a hillfort. Possibly even give the option between to upgrades.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2016 08:52 PM |
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Elvin said:
Not a fan of the idea in a game like heroes, though it works naturally in a game like age of wonders. I'm all for creature specialization that evolves like the H6 artifacts though: A different bonus for levels 1-5, 6-10, 10-15 etc. Maybe even a branching path depending on what results you want your creature 'training' to have.
I like this idea though focusing more on creatures and alternate upgrades instead. For example, Stronghold warrior upgrade gives you access to Mauler and warmonger but you could then choose to upgrade again but chose between two which would add a warrior upgrade in either direction but lock out the opposite like either add a more offensive mauler alternative but lock out the warmonger completely or vice verse. Basically allowing you to specialize more at the price of adaptability. Basically this would give 4 Warrior upgrades but only make 2 available in any one town.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 14, 2016 09:30 PM |
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I think if it was done in similar way to King Arthus roleplaying wargame it would work just fine. ability upgrades or different boosts to choose from every 5 levels and in between those you could rise up the unit stats as you choose.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted May 14, 2016 10:26 PM |
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Edited by phe at 22:29, 14 May 2016.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 14, 2016 10:39 PM |
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Personally I am for any good idea which creates complex micromanagement allowing to beat the game faster and better than the common newbie. XP is on of those ideas, but I would use caps and conditions to make it more interesting and less automatic, as heroes having to be high levels and have specific skills in order to be able to train high level creatures, lose half levels if transferred to low level heroes, higher returned prices if you sell trained creatures, high ranks creatures trained by same hero can gain bonuses from his speciality and such things. Make experience system a mini game into the whole thing.
Otherwise is too cheesy, hero x trains creatures, pass them to lev 1 hero y and this one goes level 30 in few battles.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 14, 2016 11:43 PM |
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Not a fan either because I see no reason to have two systems generating stats and ability improvements to creatures, it's effectively a gateway to some really unnecessary imbalance. Having it as a mod? Sure. But in the base game? I'd rather not. Devs already have a hard time getting the basics right, an extra level of minute complexity might prove too much on their hands. I think incremental specialization bonuses to heroes is way easier to implement and would have a similar impact on the game, but to a lesser, more manageable extent.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 15, 2016 01:21 AM |
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A system where creatures gain experience only works if you can define discrete entities. So far, Heroes games have always revolved around stacks that could be as small as a single unit up to what's theoretically infinite and are therefore by nature not discrete.
It works for games like for instance Total War, since that deals about regiments, which have a finite size. Age of Wonders is basically the same concept, as it defines a rather clear upper bound of the power of a unit in its size.
I think the only way to introduce the concept of creature experience is to define an upper limit to stack strength in Heroes as well. I'm not sure if that's a way you want to go, though, since it threatens on the concept of symbolic representation of the battlefield too. You'd have to expand it as well to allow for regimental battles instead of symbolic unit battles.
Regardless of whether it can be made to work (I'd say it's quite well possible), a more relevant question is whether you'd still have a Heroes game to begin with.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 15, 2016 09:10 AM |
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Gotta say I'm in favour, if it works something like in WoG (maybe with fewer abilities).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 15, 2016 10:06 AM |
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Doesn't make sense for me.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 15, 2016 11:24 AM |
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I do not think I would like to see this mechanics in Heroes games. Upgrades of units are fine but (this is a bit off-topic) we should be able to choose from more units and upgrades (combination of Acid Dragon's Mod & ToE).
Something like Dynasty Weapons in H6 was a cool idea as it was not pointless to fight enemy creatures even after my hero reached max allowed level. However I am convinced about it would not work for units well.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 15, 2016 12:00 PM |
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I think creature experience is a terrible idea in HOMM, but micromanagement boosting creatures is not.
Nival already invented a greatly superior system that has the same effect on gameplay: Academy creature artifacts. Even better it also fixes the issue of Knowledge becoming pointless late game.
I have theorized about making this system universal and better balanced for all factions, but it will never be done in H5 because of modding limitations.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted May 15, 2016 12:04 PM |
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magnomagus said:
I have theorized about making this system universal and better balanced for all factions, but it will never be done in H5 because of modding limitations.
Too bad  I liked the creature artifact system in HV.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 15, 2016 12:22 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 12:22, 15 May 2016.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted May 15, 2016 01:12 PM |
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Antalyan said:
From what I have heard so far, H7 can be easily modded 
In a way that H5 is modded?
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 15, 2016 05:56 PM |
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MattII said:
Gotta say I'm in favour, if it works something like in WoG (maybe with fewer abilities).
Yes probably my fav wog feature in concept, I think with some rework it could be ultimately great, I wouldn't really know how to, but make it strategically viable within the HoMM boundaries doesn't seem alien to me.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 15, 2016 08:05 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 21:59, 16 May 2016.
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I like the idea but I am completely against been done as it is in H3 WOG.
What I would enjoy is every time a creature level ups his owner can chose between two abilities. Where each ability push the creature a little bit to certain side (offensive/deffensive/support/mage/obstacle?).
If anyone has played remake of X-COM enemy unknown you know what I mean.
Here is a screen shot of a max out X-COM solider skill tree.
<mod edit>
I will give some examples later.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 16, 2016 12:13 AM |
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They can't ballance six towns with alignments that don' copy each other and you want each creature to have several branches of development, it will work alright.
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