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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: (HOMM3) This might be a strange question, but...
Thread: (HOMM3) This might be a strange question, but... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 08:28 PM

(HOMM3) This might be a strange question, but...

...what do you consider more overpowered, Shackles of War or Town Portal?
(If it matters the map would be XL +underground and have tons of artifacts and towns)  

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 05, 2016 08:36 PM

If your map is multiplayer, I would leave the spells and artifacts random, after removing the game-break ones, probably dimension door, fly, tome of air, wizard hat etc.

Then all other available, but change from a game to another.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 08:58 PM

Thanks Salamandre
Dimension Door is already disabled, as it would allow access to stuff past border guards, quest guards and stuff...
But Fly is okay as I play HotA and you can't bypass stuff with Fly in HotA, if the map is set up correctly.
But I consider adding Shackles of War or Town Portal, I'm leaning a bit towards Shackles even though I find both pretty overpowered, so I might keep both disabled.    
But it is hard (and annoying) defending 6-10 towns without Town Portal, Dimension Door or Shackles of War...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 05, 2016 09:05 PM

Personally I wouldn't play a map where I have to defend 10 towns vs random AI or human and town portal or shackles are disabled. Because the interest of the game isn't in how you survive to worthless dumb AI random attacks.

IF the map is story driven and such spells are removed because you have to acquire them the hard way, is okay. But removing just for forcing the player do little fights without any interest to keep towns equally without interest isn't of big... interest.

My two cents, naturally, you do whatever you like.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 09:08 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:09, 05 Jun 2016.

I prefer to have Town Portal cause my playstyle is to develop a main first but immediatly start developing other heroes for other functions, so after awhile I have two or three heroes that can handle any invasion, if OTOH I developed only a main and use the other dudes just for minor tasks as I frequently see done in MP, I think I would prefer to have the Shackles and use poorman's TP (don't forget this is a thing) when necessary.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 09:58 PM

Yeah I understand what you both are saying.
The map is'nt story driven, it is big and open and you take and lose towns constantly.
As it's a very open island map, where you never know when you will get sneak attacked "Poor man's Town Portal" is also kinda hard to do.  
I was trying to add a challenge by disabling those things, but it gets a bit tiresome to take and lose the same towns over and over.
I also recently made it easier to take the neutral towns, so I might make it a bit harder again...    

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted June 05, 2016 10:10 PM

I wouldn't play an island map without TP if it is not a story map.

Best solution is making it available for all...give ai witvh hut with earth magic and a lvl 4 shrine with town portal. Not a fan of shackles either, makes maps too easy.

Shackles overall more OP (hero caught at wrong place at the wrong time? Game over!)


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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted June 05, 2016 10:11 PM

Oh btw hota offers a golden solution. Town gate structures at adventure map,  place them strategicly

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 10:14 PM

phoenix4ever said:
"Poor man's Town Portal" is also kinda hard to do.

To move the army may be hard but if I have a surplus of 5 to 10 in each prim and tons of spells/books on main and the others have scouting and stuff they got from visiting witch huts and picking scholars and only the prims that came from leveling up and that from doing just the battles you need for some reward then I may prefer to still do the battle with main, shackles and use the troops I have in the soon to be attacked town.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 10:23 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:33, 05 Jun 2016.

@Markmasters
Yeah if ai was guaranteed Wisdom, Earth Magic and Town Portal it would have a fair chance as well, but guaranteeing those things also takes away a bit of the surprise, but I suppose it might be a solution.

Shackles I find pretty insane, a major artifact, that stops hit and runs and takes ALL the enemys artifacts, of course it can be used against you as well, but usually you can win the map pretty fast with Shackles.

Town Portal is also insane allowing you to visit every town and cast it 10+ times a day, for a very small amount of mana, as a side effect it makes secondary heroes and skills like Eagle Eye, Scholar, Mysticism and Intelligence useless.

So I'm not really a fan of either, cause they are both too powerful.  

I have placed a few Town Gates (HotA obejct) on the map and I like those very much, but I can't have them on every little island...  
EDIT: Unfortunately it seems to me like ai does'nt know how to use Town Gates, I have never seen them use it. Just did a little test with an ai ally placed on a small, bare island with me and a town gate and his town placed on another island. He could have used the town gate to leave the island. but he never did...  

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 10:39 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:46, 05 Jun 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
I have placed a few Town Gates (HotA obejct) on the map and I like those very much, but I can't have them on every little island...  

Or you would be better just allowing the spell. You know how I use those things? I have them close to a prison, maybe a quest or guarded one or in the corner's of Strongold/Fortress territories, so they don't get locked there while other's can easilly return. But I also ussually garantee that both Ressurection and TP are available in level 4 shrines in territory AI's without level 4 mage guilds will visit early and they get both wisdom and earth so the last is not that important.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 10:48 PM

@Bloodsucker That also seems like a good idea, except all 6 starting towns can be human or ai and all 6 starting towns can be any town. So I won't know where/if there are Strongholds or Fortresses and if I guaranteed ai Wisdom and Earth magic I would also guarantee human players them...    

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 10:59 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:09, 05 Jun 2016.

Well, I've been customizing witch huts for player while in the case of the AI is the hero I customize from top to bottom, the only thing I leave is specialty (usually a medium one cause I reserve the really goods for player) and I would change that too if they fullfiled my wich of having the specialty available in the heroes screen. But I don't give level 4 spells right away so  shrines are usefull.

I don't like random towns, if you want random play the random generated maps. I have seen a lot of beautifull maps done that way but they have tremendous ballancing problems, namelly terrain and level of best creature dwellings.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 11:19 PM

bloodsucker said:
namelly terrain and level of best creature dwellings.

Yeah I get terrain that is a little disadvantage for Fortress, Cove, Tower and Stronghold, but what do you mean by best creature dwellings?

I don't like RMG, it makes to many mistakes and is really random and unbalanced, on the other hand I would say my map is very balanced.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 11:36 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:40, 05 Jun 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
what do you mean by best creature dwellings?

If you give level 4 dwelling on one territory and ballance it with 2 of level two in another in wich one would you prefer to play Strongold or Necropolis?

phoenix4ever said:
EDIT: Unfortunately it seems to me like ai does'nt know how to use Town Gates

Good job but I would formulate it this way: it seems HotA crew didn't code the Town Gate for AI", even I find that suspicious.
IF there is something that is DEFINETIVELLY WoG and not RoE is to have the AI foolled in objects on the map.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 11:44 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:48, 05 Jun 2016.

The thing about dwellings is not a problem, every island have a dwelling which is level 1-3 and one that is level 4-6 so all islands get the same but no one knows exactly what they get.

Please test ai using Town Gates yourself then, cause I have never seen them use it, not even in my little closed test where it was ai's only option.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2016 11:51 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:52, 05 Jun 2016.

And did he had anything to do near the town?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2016 11:56 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:59, 05 Jun 2016.

There was a Pandoras Box right next to his town with 100000 xp, a boat which would allow him to get of the island, there were also two witch huts and he could buy units, war machine and learn spells in town...  (The town was already fully built, except for tavern and shipyard, which were disabled)

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 12:03 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 01:40, 06 Jun 2016.

So they did it. For me this is the worst crime we are all guilty in Wog/Era, we treat AI as the poor cousin.
With so much small talk about preserving SoD playstyle this is deffinetivelly not the way to go.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 12:12 AM

Yeah hopefully they will fix it soon.
I haven't tested every new HotA object, but I'm not sure ai is coded to use all the other new objects either.

And was'nt it us that talked about combi artifacts?, ai seems to have no clue about those either, but that is not HotAs fault, that goes back to Armageddon's Blade...

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