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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: (HOMM3) This might be a strange question, but...
Thread: (HOMM3) This might be a strange question, but... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 12:18 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:19, 06 Jun 2016.

Why do you think I said "not RoE" and not "not SoD"? Yeah, 3DO started it. They can say is SoD style but to me this is not a winning argument.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 12:37 AM

I agree.

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Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted June 06, 2016 01:36 AM

Conflux, Castle (Only in rich maps), Armageddon's Blade, Town Portal, Dimension Door, Fly, Angel Wings, some combine artifacts, shackles of war, diplomacy (only large maps).
____________

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 01:41 AM

phoenix4ever said:
The thing about dwellings is not a problem, every island have a dwelling which is level 1-3

Nice example, what is Tower's level 3 dwelling?  

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 06, 2016 07:21 AM

bloodsucker said:
Nice example, what is Tower's level 3 dwelling?

Golem factory which means 6 stone, 6 iron, 3 gold and 2 diamond golems a week, I call dibs on em all.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 08:22 AM

Yes and there is 1/3 chance for a Golem Factory to appear, on the other hand Town Portal and Dimension Door are disabled, which Tower is supposed to have the biggest chance to get. So I don't see the problem, besides you might not even have the money to buy gold and diamond golems...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 01:25 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:52, 06 Jun 2016.

It's not a big one but you asked what I ment by "ballancing problems" and that is one example. Now, I've been buffing AI with 10 times that I hardly notice it.

Please try to read this with an open-mind, if I critize it is just cause I want your map to be better, not cause I want you discredit.

When I said if you want random play RMGs what I mean is: you can't expect a map to be ballanced when you keep everything random, the variation between the time where Tower got Golem Factoty on Ice and the one when Necropolis got vampires on dirt is way, way too big for the map to be considered ballanced enouch for MP. OTOH, MP player's usually perfer the RMG so that is quite meaninless.
If you want to buff the AI there are two things you can do:
1. Create global time events giving money and resources to ALL players, every X days and then unclick the "Apply to human players" box.
2. In each of the towns place some time events giving some extra creatures every week, click the "Apply to computer players" and unclick the other.
But this only provides for more troops when in the case of a fixed map I can already give bonus to everything but specialty and that will change the second they add the option to the editor. In a fixed map, you can give the secondary skills directly to the hero, use a Pandora Box to give stuff, place the best dwellings for that faction (vampires for Necropolis, Grand Elves for Rampart, all elemental dwelling for Conflux, etc...), artifacts that are better for that city (components of the statue or Cornucopia, necromancy artifacts, etc...).
You can also place an event in front of each enemy town, uncheck the disable after first visit and apply to human player boxes and give secondary skills and spells to ALL AI heroes as they came out of the town.
While you have to start the map always from the same location wich is boring, the challenge put by a buffed AI more then compensates for it. You can buff and debuff AI from a game to the other till you find your own ballance and if you publish it and I fill it is too hard or too easy for me, I can edit the bonus in just a few minutes.  
Plus, you can add conservatories near Castle, red towers near Conflux and Experimental Shops near Tower, etc,  buffering them randomly but with the right troops for each case.
More however, you can create custom quest huts asking for starting hero (if fixed) or  color (if not), always at the same distance from the starting point.
I think I've underlined the major advantages of buffering AI in a fixed map versus in a map with random factions, tell me if you desagree.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 01:38 PM

Thanks for that long post Bloodsucker. I took no offense reading it.
I never noticed you could give ai more resources and troops that way, that might be an idea.
Notice that most of the terrain is covered by roads, but there are some places with difficult terrain and no roads especially in the underground. But difficult terrain can be bypassed by Fly, Angel Wings and those new Pathfinding boots anyway.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 01:43 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:11, 06 Jun 2016.

But local terrain gives +1 to speed, wich can be decisive in some battles. Try cript with vampires using tower, Master Gremlins on the first slot, in and out of snow.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 02:02 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:08, 06 Jun 2016.

Actually starting islands concists of two types of terrain for example grass and swamp or lava and dirt. So yes there might be a very small advantage choosing a town that fits with those, but it is imo a very small advantage. All starting towns are near the coast and can be attacked in one day no matter the terrain.
I'm sorry if we don't agree, but I like to keep most things random, to keep things exciting and unpredictable.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 06, 2016 02:11 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 15:44, 06 Jun 2016.

This also works with random towns: place an event in front of each town, uncheck the disable after first visit and apply to human player boxes and give secondary skills and spells to ALL AI heroes as they came out of the town. (if you give prims and experience they get buffed everytime the hero enters or exits the town but these two only work once).
You can also build dwellings with events that apply to computer player only and if you build them day 1 and give first bonus to troops day 1  repeating every seven days, you are in fact giving them a small starting bonus of troops along with a long term advantage.

Give them just Earth, Wisdom, Logistics and (maybe) Navigation and just the basic vital spells like Blind, Bless, Cure, Haste, Slow, Shield and Stone Skin (I also give them Fire Wall, cause if AI casts it in front of his shooters you can't use 1 unit + tactics trick to block them but I never saw it used that way). Notice that in a fixed map you can separate the heroes player CAN hire from the heroes player CAN'T hire, in your case this bonus will revert to you once you kill an hero and get him in tavern.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 11:20 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:23, 06 Jun 2016.

If I placed events outside all towns giving wisdom and earth magic, only for the ai, that means the ai will start to cast a lot of mass slow won't it? In my experience ai usually cast a damage spell, blind or summons elementals. I suppose it would cast mass slow a lot with earth magic and probably meteor shower and implosion? Oh how I hate when he blasts my level 7 with implosion or armageddon and I got no resurrection/animate dead.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 06, 2016 11:23 PM

Check "the lone knight" map to get how to design the perfect setup for AI, the one which can compete with human quite well. All towns have daily extra growth and resources, but available only if AI owns them.

If you do that, you don't need to worry about what skills and spells to give, just give it creatures, enough of them.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 06, 2016 11:33 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:36, 06 Jun 2016.

Yeah I never noticed giving extra resources and/or creatures via events only for the ai, but that is definitely a possibility.
There are witch huts on all starting islands giving navigation, as that is crucial for the map, but I might consider giving navigation, wisdom and earth magic to ai via events instead or maybe just lots of creatures. Without the witch huts Battle Mages would be in serious trouble, as they can't learn navigation naturally.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 07, 2016 12:37 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 01:24, 07 Jun 2016.

From my experience AI is pretty weak at building heroes but if given all options (spells and magic schools) it fights pretty well. It is of course predictable and trickable but that's where strategy starts.
Navigation must be in witch hut not in event, if player/you happen to start with Stronghold on swamp or snow and only gets battle mages in tavern for awhile map may become too hard to win with previously tested bonus.

@Salamandre Just checked The Lone Knight, you think that's all the bonus AI needs against normal? Cause what I'm doing in the underground provides for a growth of + three creatures of all levels, so any bonus to growth of the biggies is imediatly greather then that (and I still didn't finished so now is a good moment to learn from opinion). OTOH he gaves much more money then me early, I go above those numbers but increasing progressively.

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