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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: UK's EU referendum
Thread: UK's EU referendum This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2016 11:06 AM

I say good for UK.


Some has said economy will fail as the bubble explodes from next wind anyway. Don't know what will happen but I don't predict bright future for EU.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 24, 2016 11:11 AM

I am not surprised. UK was fed up with Poles flooding the country. Yes, I know that many of you will say that it's just one thing that bothered those people, but I think it's the thing that mattered the most.

Problem is that nationalism is on the rise. Europe had a good chance to create something rivalling the United States. Europe combined has more people and is richer. But they BLEW IT. Now we'll see nationalism triumphant everywhere. Again the national propaganda, then, we'll start killing each other again, with US and Russia's laughter in the background.

GJ Europe.

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted June 24, 2016 11:12 AM

Doomforge said:
I am not surprised. UK was fed up with Poles flooding the country. Yes, I know that many of you will say that it's just one thing that bothered those people, but I think it's the thing that mattered the most.

Problem is that nationalism is on the rise. Europe had a good chance to create something rivalling the United States. Europe combined has more people and is richer. But they BLEW IT. Now we'll see nationalism triumphant everywhere. Again the national propaganda, then, we'll start killing each other again, with US and Russia's laughter in the background.

GJ Europe.

Well aren't you a ray of sunshine.
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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted June 24, 2016 11:13 AM
Edited by Jabanoss at 11:15, 24 Jun 2016.

Even though UK's independent might grow stronger with this I doubt they will benefit them economically.

I think that EU too big of a player even without UK. That's assuming though that no other country will leave. Should other nations leave, then maybe the notion that this could be end of EU might not be so far off.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted June 24, 2016 11:25 AM

Jabanoss said:
Hopefully this will lead to both Scotland and Northern Ireland to eventually leave the UK.
Why hopefully? You do realize that this will just fuel the rest of the separatist tendencies elsewhere? Scotland and N. Ireland might gain independence to join something non-existent by that time.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 24, 2016 11:27 AM
Edited by artu at 11:47, 24 Jun 2016.

Salamandre said:
artu said:
Immigrants are not guests, Sal. Tourists are guests. Immigrants are people who are starting a new LIFE, in a new country. You can say they should respect that country's customs, laws.. Of course they should. That does not make them guests, that makes them newcomers.


How many times you immigrated, artu? JJ? I did twice.

Let's say you want a new life in US, or France. How you do it? What visa you ask? Do you have a relative permanent resident in that country, ready to sponsor you? If you don't, you can't. So please.

So the point is that 99% of "immigrants" arrive as tourists. Then half remain as illegals, as the laws aren't applied. And this is is why people over all EU ask for borders control. We can continue this mental contortion to avoid the core of subject, but frankly is not worth the time.

No disrespect to your experience, but this is one of the cases where semantics matter. A guest is someone who knows he is temporary. Whatever the paperwork says, when you immigrate, you are calling a new location HOME. Your relationship with that location is, from that moment, very different from a place you would visit temporarily.

I'm from Ankara. I have stayed in Cyprus, Girne temporarily during my days as a student. I then moved back to Ankara, "going back home." There was nothing much to do there anymore, so this time I permanently left, now I live in Istanbul. When I visit back Ankara from Istanbul every once in a while, it's not home anymore. In fact, the feeling is so different, it's as one of the poets of Ankara describes: "The house I was born in/Attacks me like a beast/who no longer recognizes its offspring."
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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted June 24, 2016 11:36 AM
Edited by Jabanoss at 11:38, 24 Jun 2016.

Zenofex said:
Why hopefully? You do realize that this will just fuel the rest of the separatist tendencies elsewhere?

Exactly. You make it sound like such a bad thing. If separatist movements can have their way through democratic voting, how can that be a bad thing? And why should big nations such have UK, Spain, France, etc hold sovereignty over smaller territories if those territories' people doesn't even what to be a part?
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 24, 2016 11:38 AM

@artu

My point is that it is insanely difficult to immigrate in the sense "I start a new life". The fact that you need a close relative to pay for you, whatever happens, makes it very unlikely.

Thus you have to do it by lying the system, come as tourist then start planning things differently, or apply for student visa (very difficult too because you have to prove you have a lot of money), or apply for a work visa, where it is necessary to get an invitation. This last is for non EU residents. Legally you are a guest, a temporary one. It is specified on your papers, you have to declare it when asked, and so on.

But all this became obsolete with borders dissolution. So, while people before had to prove some responsibility, motivation and will, now all they have to do is walk in. This sucks.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted June 24, 2016 11:56 AM

Jabanoss said:
Exactly. You make it sound like such a bad thing. If separatist movements can have their way through democratic voting, how can that be a bad thing? And why should big nations such have UK, Spain, France, etc hold sovereignty over smaller territories if those territories' people doesn't even what to be a part?
Look, that's not some game of democracy, separatism means separation of economy, introducing more borders, putting people who have lived together for a long time against each other, giving other interested states new tools to intervene in the region and other cool things which never end with "democracy". I'm from a region which is so accustomed to dogfights between neighbours (who otherwise get along decently) inspired by all sorts of ideological bullcrap and selective reading if the past that it's nearly a local tradition - and it's not nearly as sugar-coated as you seem to imagine it.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted June 24, 2016 12:22 PM

You're right. My problem is mainly when there's talk about for example not letting Scotland, should they leave UK, become part of EU because countries such a Spain don't want to fuel their separatists. I'm not well versed enough in Spanish internal affairs, but it seems to be that Scotland should be a sovereign state whereas Basque and Catalonia perhaps should not be.  

I am very sad to see UK leave EU and for those reasons you bring up when you talk about separatism. I want to Europe to have more open borders and open markets. It would be sad to see that all go away because of fear mongering nationalists.

(Side note, a couple of years ago I was very anti about EU. Oh how times have changed. Now I am just skeptical!)
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted June 24, 2016 12:31 PM

That may be true, but UK has a somewhat solid economy, I think. They won't certainly fail in any near future.

And I guess Greece is cheering they aren't the first country to left the EU, after the potential Grexit.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2016 12:48 PM

And there are several prophecies about England being drawn by sea and by earthquakes in start of 21 century. Maybe english people choosen worst time to be alone.

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted June 24, 2016 01:24 PM
Edited by Neraus at 13:27, 24 Jun 2016.

Let me preface with a rant.
Gryphs said:
Republic of Genoa

That's the reason I hate Anglophones with a passion, why in hell would you remove the V, if it is in the original name, also, why Napoli becomes Naples, that doesn't make any sense! Torino becomes Turin, and Venezia becomes Venice. And then you are inconsistent, why are Sicilian cities not translated? I'm proud that my homeland cities have to be called with their actual name, but come on, is that supposed to mean we're irrelevant?

artu said:

I mean, we have Italian or German members here, please intrude guys. Let them tell you how a Genovan and a Sicillian did not identify themselves as "Italian first" historically.


Not only historically, even today, even if at a smaller scale, we identify as our region and not with our nation of Italy.
That's the reason why the Lega Nord has had quite a following in the north while here in the south we had the MPA (Movimento per l'Autonomia: Movement for Autonomy) to embolden our status as a special region.

The Italian national identity has always been crippled by the start, as my professor of history used to say, the moment there was an actual unity of Italy was when TVs became common.
The problem was and is yet today a policy of exclusion of certain sectors.
Long story short, After the unification basically the government directed most of the funds to the north instead of the south, leaving us crippled and forced to rely on them.

And I see this repeating again with the EU actually, with our agriculture, one of the best in the world, being stunted by common European policies, and we're forced to import sub-par fruit and vegetables instead of preferring our own products, and that's just the first example.

So, how can we integrate to an higher authority, if said authority kicks us in the teeth?


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 24, 2016 01:32 PM

You northerners, it's always about the food!
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...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 24, 2016 01:41 PM

artu said:
You northerners, it's always about the food!

Back again and just in time for a afternoon snack I see, can I eat your fruit on the avatar picture Artu?

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted June 24, 2016 01:42 PM
Edited by Neraus at 13:44, 24 Jun 2016.

I'm a Southerner!

And food is always on my mind, I like to eat.
Else, why would I get up early in my vacations just to eat some Granita? Also, I'm going to eat lunch, usual meal... of three plates.

But in all seriousness, agricultural issues affect a big chunk of the southern population, and it has always been a moving sector for our economy, so an eventual dip because of the EU isn't really pleasant.
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 24, 2016 01:47 PM

Neraus said:
I'm a Southerner!

That was the joke, you are a northener from where I sit.

And Ebonheart, step away you Nordic, you think yogurt is cream!
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...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted June 24, 2016 01:50 PM

I beg to differ!

...

Wait...

I'm bringing myself to a lower level than a Turk!?

Alright, you won this one.
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 24, 2016 02:08 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 14:08, 24 Jun 2016.

artu said:
And Ebonheart, step away you Nordic, you think yogurt is cream!

But meow, Yogurt is cream...

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted June 24, 2016 05:45 PM

Doomforge said:
Problem is that nationalism is on the rise. Europe had a good chance to create something rivalling the United States. Europe combined has more people and is richer. But they BLEW IT. Now we'll see nationalism triumphant everywhere. Again the national propaganda, then, we'll start killing each other again, with US and Russia's laughter in the background.
I don't think it'll go that badly. Maybe it'll be the opposite - once the Euroskeptic countries leave, the original Inner Six will be able to integrate more deeply.
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