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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Are you seriously gonna purchase the hamster faction?
Thread: Are you seriously gonna purchase the hamster faction? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted July 26, 2016 08:27 AM

"Soon"

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 28, 2016 03:40 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 15:41, 28 Jul 2016.

If they wanted to snatch the hamsters/kobolds from Blizzard/WoW for their popularity, they're about 10 years to late. Hogger and his hamst.. kobolds where kind of cool when WoW was new, but now anyone who has ever played the game more than two times want to puke when they hear the sound of kobolds.

And I've got nothing against dwarves but a dwarven faction has simply no place in HoMM, nor has any other race-based faction. Real HoMM towns aren't based on races, and the techno-viking dwarf cliché is just so overdone. Dwarves belong in the nature faction with the elves.

Maybe we should just go to a daycare centre and ask the kids there to come up with new ideas for HoMM? It would certainly turn out to be a lot better than anything Ubi and their underlings come up with since those kids are to young to ever have played WoW or Warhammer. I could deal with a HoMM set in Candyland with Snowwhite and the Dwarves if Ashan would be no more - at least that would be an original idea.
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted July 28, 2016 04:10 PM

Theme based factions will always be superior.  One thing that really drives me up the wall is how they reduce the number of myth creatures AND they give us the worst ones imaginable. How many magical ladies and "Noun + real life animal" units do we need??

New faction has all that crap. Got bears in the line up. Rhinos made of lava. A must have dwarf in every tier....

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 28, 2016 06:27 PM

Root snake, white bear and moon doe laugh at your puny mythological creatures.

*sigh*
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Momo
Momo


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 30, 2016 03:07 AM

cleglaw said:
there we go, another uninteresting no-point mocking post.

i have doubts about de-bugging, performance, gameplay and all kinds of things... but having a cool dwarven faction is not one of my problems. not at all. not even a bit. and its not a hamster faction, its a dwarven faction which has a hamster-like creature(which is half-dwarven)

till the day you and guys really point important matters.. im all out again. you should see how bad this community looks like from outside. it looks beyond terrible.

how can you acctually start fixing your critism: by not focusing on one single creature appearence.

edit: by the way, i like that creature. yes, i like it you may not respect or believe it but i do. are you satisfied with my answer?



Yes. The community looks really hopeless. It is the same reason I left it as well after H6.

I can't imagine how people here can't see themselves as part of what's killing Heroes. It's so blatant it is even painful to watch.

And don't read some flame-baiting sarcasm, smug sense of superiority or pleasure in making snide remarks: I write this with the utmost sense of sadness, and nothing else.

The answer to the OP, that said, is Yes. I will purchase the game and the faction as soon as a deluxe edition kicks in or as soon as the price drops. The dwarven faction is cool enough, I do love dwarves, and perhaps they'll fix at least the bugs with expansions as they did in the past.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted July 30, 2016 08:18 AM

Momo said:
Yes. The community looks really hopeless. It is the same reason I left it as well after H6.

I can't imagine how people here can't see themselves as part of what's killing Heroes. It's so blatant it is even painful to watch.


Ubisoft delivers overpriced bugged nonsensical crap but community is to blame.

Interesting logic.

Quote:
The answer to the OP, that said, is Yes. I will purchase the game and the faction as soon as a deluxe edition kicks in or as soon as the price drops.


Oh yes, supporting usurpers mocking you is obviously the right course of action.
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted July 30, 2016 05:47 PM

Community is certainly partly to blame. The endless negativity is everywhere and it prevents them from possible improvements and changes. If you tell a football or any other sport team again and again that they will play terribly (even if they played really terribly several last matches, so you might be right), guess what happens? They will not start playing better. What's more, it's probable they will play even worse.
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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted July 30, 2016 05:57 PM

Team Erwin deciding to bake H6 2.0 and purposely not only dismissing most of the input from the community but also reusing what was badly received was bound to generate fanrage, they are solely responsible for this.
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 30, 2016 06:02 PM

Antalyan said:
Community is certainly partly to blame. The endless negativity is everywhere and it prevents them from possible improvements and changes. If you tell a football or any other sport team again and again that they will play terribly (even if they played really terribly several last matches, so you might be right), guess what happens? They will not start playing better. What's more, it's probable they will play even worse.
Actually I think for over a decade the M&M community has been very constructive in its criticism and in clearly pointing out the mistakes and what needs to change for the HoMM series to survive. It's just that the other people seem demented on that rushing games, Warcraftization and Erwanism is the way to go no matter what those pesky fans think.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwinmental Garbage
posted July 30, 2016 06:19 PM

Momo said:
Yes. The community looks really hopeless. It is the same reason I left it as well after H6.

I can't imagine how people here can't see themselves as part of what's killing Heroes. It's so blatant it is even painful to watch.

And don't read some flame-baiting sarcasm, smug sense of superiority or pleasure in making snide remarks: I write this with the utmost sense of sadness, and nothing else.


please give us a bit more credit for our intelligence than that pal, we are not idiots, of course the community is a (very minor and ineffectual) complicit part of what's killing Heroes, lol

the fallacy though is in your taking for granted that Heroes is better off alive in this warped Team Erwin incarnation than it is dead,

I mean you say you're sad, I tell ya man believe me I'm much sadder than you are that it's down come to this, I take zero pleasure in judging that the series is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't under Erwin lol
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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
posted July 30, 2016 09:04 PM
Edited by markmasters at 21:04, 30 Jul 2016.

Instead of being constructive and highlight good points (even if that comes from older installments) all you guys is point out negativity and such.

If people hit 'heroes of might and magic' on google search, you want them to see 'how good (old) heroes is or how bad 'new heroes' is? Even if that is your goal, less people will go to the older installments too.

And blame ubi what you want, HoMM 5 was a great game with very innovative parts

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted July 30, 2016 09:19 PM
Edited by Elvin at 21:19, 30 Jul 2016.

markmasters said:
Instead of being constructive and highlight good points (even if that comes from older installments) all you guys is point out negativity and such.

Was bound to happen after years of discussing what the fans want, much as I don't like the negativity.
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BurntPhoenix
BurntPhoenix


Hired Hero
posted July 30, 2016 09:48 PM
Edited by BurntPhoenix at 21:49, 30 Jul 2016.

But wouldn't the negativity a.k.a blatant honesty, if it were widespread and impactful enough, be SO worth it if it meant that the franchise could change hands again to a new developer and publisher, thereby providing a fresh start and a shot at restoring quality to the series?

If H7 has really done poor financially, is that not a possibility?


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Mageus
Mageus


Hired Hero
posted July 31, 2016 12:01 AM

BurntPhoenix said:
But wouldn't the negativity a.k.a blatant honesty, if it were widespread and impactful enough, be SO worth it if it meant that the franchise could change hands again to a new developer and publisher, thereby providing a fresh start and a shot at restoring quality to the series?

If H7 has really done poor financially, is that not a possibility?




Personally I love H7 as it is so I'd rather not try the devil. That and all the kind of games I love tend to disappear because they aren't profitable enough : I love real time strategy (see red alert disappeared, age of epire is dead, starcraft has one game every 15 years ...), heroes franchise (did not like most of the concurrents except civ beyond earth) and single player rpgs (a bit more luck there).

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Momo
Momo


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 31, 2016 12:17 AM bonus applied by Maurice on 31 Jul 2016.
Edited by Momo at 00:22, 31 Jul 2016.

Galaad said:

Ubisoft delivers overpriced bugged nonsensical crap but community is to blame.

Interesting logic.



No. Community isn't to blame for the amount of crap Ubisoft had raining down on us during the three latest installments. They are to blame because they sound a completely unreliable source of criticism for the most, and make it look like Ubi/Erwin are the ones being reasonable and genuinely trying while all we do is complaining that they don't just re-do H3. Read some articles around the web to see how it looks like from the outside. And, read down below for further reference.

Quote:

Oh yes, supporting usurpers mocking you is obviously the right course of action.


No wait, I should not buy a product I might like because I must stand together as one with all those people saying this product should disappear. That would make me a smart one.

verriker said:

the fallacy though is in your taking for granted that Heroes is better off alive in this warped Team Erwin incarnation than it is dead,

I mean you say you're sad, I tell ya man believe me I'm much sadder than you are that it's down come to this, I take zero pleasure in judging that the series is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't under Erwin lol


Yes ok. You see, that is exactly the problem. You say Erwin and his direction are poisoning Heroes. I think you are correct for the most. The problem is that seeing how the fanbase looks simply gives Erwin more legitimacy and cred.

Most people here criticize things about the latest installments that just make no sense. Their criticism makes no sense, and it basically summarizes in why for goodness' sake cannot they have HOMM3 with new graphics.

You may dislike Ashan. I dislike most things about Ashan excepts how it looks (I think it looks aesthetically splendid to be honest).

But when a game is just as criticized for having spider-aura liches and beaver-like kobolds as it is criticized for bugs that crash the game, tyrannical software that sometimes kicks you out of the game or damages your save files, unbalanced multiplayer, retarded&cheating AI and utterly broken graphic engine that takes minutes (MINUTES) to load a screen... then it's easy to mix it all and say "all cats are grey" and convince the public that fans are whiners with questionable tastes and priorities who you just shouldn't pay too much attention to.

When people complains about the lore amount to nonsense ("UGH in Ashan dragons and wizards created everything!" Yeah, well, in Enroth the Ancients created everything, so there) it's easy to build a ridicolous crappy lore and scrapping the other one for absolutely no reason and then say fans hate it just because they where obsessed with the old lore.

Anger doesn't help, either.  If the question on the table is "What should Ubisoft and Erwin do to make Heroes better?" and the vocal answer is "Ubisoft should bankrupt, Erwin should lose its job and Heroes sould die in peace right now" then whoever asks the question will probably decide to ask someone else.

What Erwin and Ubi are doing, aristically speaking, is a crime in art. They are taking a very old, honored and valued series with a strong, affectionate fanbase and some unique takes on its genre and they are destroying its history, devaluing its name, alienating the fans and removing its strong suits. They're even losing money, by doing so. They are repeadetly telling the fans that what they want for the series cannot happen and taking the series in different directions for yet-to-be-comprehended reasons, all the while making bugged, non functioning products, meaning they are actively displeasing the old fanbase and a potential new one. Normally, many people involved in such a disastrous misuse of artistical and intellectual property would lose their seats immediately. One of the reason it is not happening, the main reason, is that we are speaking of Ubisoft. But another (minor but still) reason is that what should be the most vocal, competent and logically sound source of criticism has very little credibility in the eyes of most who aren't part of that source/group already.

And while I took long enough to state my point of view and it certainly was a bit off topic, it still goes back to the original post in this thread. Kobolds aren't a bad unit and this dwarven faction isn't a badly designed faction as far as flavor goes; but we will mock them anyway, because hell, why not? Everybody hates Ubi's Heroes anyway. Spitting of whatever they come up with is what it makes you part of the "in" crowd nowadays, and it's free, to boot.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwinmental Garbage
posted July 31, 2016 03:03 AM bonus applied by Maurice on 31 Jul 2016.

Momo said:
Yes ok. You see, that is exactly the problem. You say Erwin and his direction are poisoning Heroes. I think you are correct for the most. The problem is that seeing how the fanbase looks simply gives Erwin more legitimacy and cred.

Most people here criticize things about the latest installments that just make no sense. Their criticism makes no sense, and it basically summarizes in why for goodness' sake cannot they have HOMM3 with new graphics.

You may dislike Ashan. I dislike most things about Ashan excepts how it looks (I think it looks aesthetically splendid to be honest).

But when a game is just as criticized for having spider-aura liches and beaver-like kobolds as it is criticized for bugs that crash the game, tyrannical software that sometimes kicks you out of the game or damages your save files, unbalanced multiplayer, retarded&cheating AI and utterly broken graphic engine that takes minutes (MINUTES) to load a screen... then it's easy to mix it all and say "all cats are grey" and convince the public that fans are whiners with questionable tastes and priorities who you just shouldn't pay too much attention to.

When people complains about the lore amount to nonsense ("UGH in Ashan dragons and wizards created everything!" Yeah, well, in Enroth the Ancients created everything, so there) it's easy to build a ridicolous crappy lore and scrapping the other one for absolutely no reason and then say fans hate it just because they where obsessed with the old lore.

Anger doesn't help, either.  If the question on the table is "What should Ubisoft and Erwin do to make Heroes better?" and the vocal answer is "Ubisoft should bankrupt, Erwin should lose its job and Heroes sould die in peace right now" then whoever asks the question will probably decide to ask someone else.

What Erwin and Ubi are doing, aristically speaking, is a crime in art. They are taking a very old, honored and valued series with a strong, affectionate fanbase and some unique takes on its genre and they are destroying its history, devaluing its name, alienating the fans and removing its strong suits. They're even losing money, by doing so. They are repeadetly telling the fans that what they want for the series cannot happen and taking the series in different directions for yet-to-be-comprehended reasons, all the while making bugged, non functioning products, meaning they are actively displeasing the old fanbase and a potential new one. Normally, many people involved in such a disastrous misuse of artistical and intellectual property would lose their seats immediately. One of the reason it is not happening, the main reason, is that we are speaking of Ubisoft. But another (minor but still) reason is that what should be the most vocal, competent and logically sound source of criticism has very little credibility in the eyes of most who aren't part of that source/group already.

And while I took long enough to state my point of view and it certainly was a bit off topic, it still goes back to the original post in this thread. Kobolds aren't a bad unit and this dwarven faction isn't a badly designed faction as far as flavor goes; but we will mock them anyway, because hell, why not? Everybody hates Ubi's Heroes anyway. Spitting of whatever they come up with is what it makes you part of the "in" crowd nowadays, and it's free, to boot.


first of all your post deserves a QP,

secondly you might be surprised how much I agree with you, I agree with you that the world or the graphics of the game are not valid reasons in their own right to write it off completely, I agree with you that it's better to focus on the terrible skill system, moronic AI and dull boring gameplay, and if you review my past posts you will see many of them have done that lol

I think on your side though, you may be taking the mockery of Erwin and Ashan a bit too seriously, it is not really anger or raw stupidity IMO,
they are basically silly Beavis and Butthead style in-jokes and one-liners we are resorting to for irresponsible cheap laughs out of cynicism, and most of us are completely self-aware of this, but you should be assured from the conversations I've had that the critical users here are not writing off Heroes 7 because of these factors, it's because of the core issues we see even from just watching YouTube videos that it's still a bugged pile of *****, poorly-designed, poorly-coded and scripted on a fundamental level (ask LizardWarrior), with no multiplayer, no AI, no game balance, no "just one more turn", nothing to play, no momentum to save it, and even then nothing to constructively fix in any case because we know how incompetent the staff are (an intern who never worked on a single game before in his life is the sole AI coder for this immensely complex TBS, how the hell will any constructive criticism mitigate that) lol

what we could improve, judging from this, is to make it clearer that we have a meaningful agenda in our criticism and are not just an echo chamber of superficial idiots and plonkers throwing around dumb memes, but to be honest it doesn't make much of a difference, our reputation isn't really going to influence anything,
Erwin and his team just don't get it and would never have listened or understood either way, the series will probably not continue in the near future because the sales and reviews are so bad (and they argue with that), and anyone legitimately interested in comprehending the situation can look up quality posts to see what we mean pretty easily, I mean if you look at my Erwin of Might and Magic thread I basically lay out many of the stupid or controversial moments from Ubisoft over the years, and there are many users like Elvin or Jolly Joker who have been very constructive and patient with this team to breaking point, their posts tell the story for the history books just fine lol

sorry for a dense run-on post but hope that makes sense lol

also sidenote that the Ancients didn't create everything in Enroth or Axeoth, the Elementals created Enroth, the Ancients just colonized Enroth and Axeoth with some races they picked up on planets in the universe, other races originated on Enroth, some creatures like the Angels or the Jackalmen might have been made by the Ancients, but the Ancients didn't create the Kreegans, the Genies, the Minotaurs, the wildlife and such, they created very little on Enroth,

you most likely didn't know any of that, which is half the point of the complaints, there was much more subtle mystery in Enroth where we are not spoonfed the origin story of every single thing in some overwritten bible with Ten Commandments and such junk, we have freedom to imagine and interpret the world for ourselves to a degree, while in Ashan it's all completely blatant black and white with very little to speculate over or discover (ironically when they beg us to discover Ashan Heroes) lol
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 31, 2016 03:26 AM

verriker said:
also sidenote that the Ancients didn't create everything in Enroth or Axeoth, the Elementals created Enroth, the Ancients just colonized Enroth and Axeoth with some races they picked up on planets in the universe, other races originated on Enroth, some creatures like the Angels or the Jackalmen might have been made by the Ancients, but the Ancients didn't create the Kreegans, the Genies, the Minotaurs, the wildlife and such, they created very little on Enroth,

you most likely didn't know any of that, which is half the point of the complaints, there was much more subtle mystery in Enroth where we are not spoonfed the origin story of every single thing in some overwritten bible with Ten Commandments and such junk, we have freedom to imagine and interpret the world for ourselves to a degree, while in Ashan it's all completely blatant black and white with very little to speculate over or discover (ironically when they beg us to discover Ashan Heroes) lol
This. This can't be stressed enough. If people with no experience of the old world(s) wanna know why some of us continue to nag about the superiority of their environment(s), this is pretty much all what it is about, at least for me.

Thanks for thoughtful posts, both of you guys.
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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted July 31, 2016 11:05 AM
Edited by Galaad at 11:08, 31 Jul 2016.

@Momo

Fair enough and you indeed make some great points. However, I hardly see how the fact a community being that angry could put in good lights in any way the people responsible for said product. When it comes to the point of no mercy, it obviously reflects the producer is handling the IP dead wrong and for too long, imo. Is common sense fans want to like the game and not the opposite. As for the bull**** articles saying stuff like "Ubisoft is a slave to its fanbase" I highly doubt it can be taken seriously by anyone in the gaming industry so I wouldn't worry as much.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 31, 2016 11:33 AM

verriker said:
First of all your post deserves a QP,


Agreed and so does yours. Both have been awarded as such.

Quote:
They are to blame because they sound a completely unreliable source of criticism for the most, and make it look like Ubi/Erwin are the ones being reasonable and genuinely trying while all we do is complaining that they don't just re-do H3.


While I can't speak for other forums as this is the only one I visit for Heroes games, I can say that during development of the game there was fairly lively and positive discussion taking place here. Whatever information UbiSoft revealed was carefully examined to see how the new concepts would be able to hold up against the successes of the past and how old concepts would work in a new shape or form.

At a number of points, flaws and shortcomings were pointed out as well as constructive discussions on how to possibly remedy this situation. Mind you, this was in a period slowly working towards release and we had several UbiSoft representatives (including a developer or two) posting actively here on the forum. But despite our misgivings (along with the reason why), nothing ever changed. The only thing that changed was the Vampire and Lich, after a community uproar on the UbiSoft forums.

Upfront, they had stated that the game would be developed with interaction with the community; our feedback, ideas and thoughts would be valuable input, they said. The truth was different, however and as time passed, you could see the tone on these forums change from optimistic and hopeful to bitter and sour. From providing (good) ideas and suggestions, it turned to mockery and contempt - but this was mostly of their own making. In hindsight, they should never have involved the community to begin with, because now the community gets the blame for the bile and venom they started spewing, rather than the developer for delivering something that's better soon forgotten.

It might have worked if they had surveyed and prospected the community to see which people had the drive as well as creativity to really contribute in the direction of the game and invite those into some form of VIP council, with which they really interacted and exchanged ideas and concepts; really go into detail and discussions about what and why, making clear they're listening. There was a VIP council already, but from what I get from it, there was just no discussion going on at all, just about everything offered and suggested by the VIPs was pushed aside while UbiSoft was also mostly silent towards them about (major) design decisions.

In the end, it's not the community who's responsible for the product, but the game developer. If they say they are ok with cultivating the community tree and then it ends up being a gnarled and twisted thorny plant with poisonous fruits, is the tree to blame or the cultivator? In my opinion, it all leads back to something flat out stated by Erwin, that they had no vision to begin with, nor any idea on where to go with the development of the game. That's not a way to design a game or set up a project to develop one - it's incompetence on a scale that would make one lose their job in most other situations.

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 31, 2016 03:44 PM

In all fairness, I'm actually quite happy that Erwin and his gang are at least trying to not create a purely race-based faction - even if it's out of disappointment from "conservative fans" voting for such line ups when given the chance. Some of the creatures are quite uninspiring and some of the designs are quite ridiculous, but I expected no less.

My biggest issue with the hamsters is not their design though, but the fact that koblods are very intimately associated with WoW, especially low-lever WoW characters. Which kinda makes me feel that once again, that's the audience Team Erwin is trying to reach out too, once again through blatant plagiarism. No matter how funny their backstory is - the idea that dwarves have been having sexual relationships with large hamsters. Haha. That's my kinda of humour. Very funny Erwin. But perhaps that's the kind of stuff you should leave to the fans to come up with. And for fans to come up with funny stories like that - you need an active fanbase. And to get an active fanbase - you need an inspiring setting that people love, and that's exactly what you have taken away from us. That's why there's never going to be a Heroes 5-7/M&M 10 equivalent of Ancient home of Dragon.

I have nothing a against dwarves. I just don't want a dwarven faction because it's cliché and not a traditional part of the M&M setting. I don't want Ashan. If you wanted to make a fire theme faction with dwarves - sure, a fire theme faction could be interesting and innovative, though I prefer if dwarves would stay part Rampart/Sylvan/whatever to prevent that one from becoming "the elven faction". Or whatever works. Just don't make a "dwarven faction". Please.
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