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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: What do you think is the most important in an artist?
Thread: What do you think is the most important in an artist?
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2016 06:00 AM
Edited by artu at 06:09, 09 Aug 2016.

Poll Question:
What do you think is the most important in an artist?

What do you think is the most important in an artist?

Responses:
Imagination and originality
Sincerity and real life experience
Intellectual potency
Emphaty and the ability to relate to various aspects of the human condition
Hard work, discipline and dedication
A zest for beauty
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 09, 2016 06:08 AM

Passion, talent and endurance.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2016 06:13 AM

Passion and endurance is covered in option 5, when it comes to talent, the poll is asking what constitutes talent the most, anyway.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted August 09, 2016 08:28 AM

No, I disagree, passion is something else than dedication, and endurance ..., ok, let's call it perseverance instead, is not the same as discipline and hard work. Discipline and hard work are necessary when you have to force yourself into something with your rational mind: I must do this, because...
However, with the artist it's more like, trying yet again, because it's still not RIGHT, which has to do more with ... well, passion and perseverance.
And I think there is no real reduction of talent to more mundane things - no amount of disciplined work can bring ... inspiration which is also something dearly needed.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2016 08:43 AM

Well, the word dedication sounds less emotional than passion but I still preferred it because, passion is sometimes used in a lighter fashion, you know, like somebody taking painting lessons in his retirement days and saying "I've always had a passion for it." Dedication encapsulates passion and it delivers the point that it's not just a hobby more accurately.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
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Wog refugee
posted August 09, 2016 08:56 AM

His creations.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2016 09:06 AM

Salamandre said:
His creations.

You mean, not his sex appeal!

Obviously, the question means "what do you think is the most important in an artist's creative progress?  

All of the listed matters, of course but I'm curious about how people will prioritize.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted August 09, 2016 09:54 AM

Imagination is required whatever you do, otherwise you just die slowly, repetitive actions are deadly.

Sincerity is not required, I don't see why interpreting Hamlet or some Chopin nocturn needs "sincerity", you need to only understand the mechanics required to play a role. An actress playing Juliet is not sincere when she stabs herself, she simulates the sincerity of the act.  

Being "intellectual" is also a humbug, a guy as Elvis is not an intellectual by far while on the other side you have artists as Glenn Gould which can speculate for hours about the second reversed subject in a multi polyphonic fugue by Buxtehude. He is not less artist for that. Also arts as literature or poesy require far more advanced intellectual skills than just writing music for a SCI-FI movie or scratching a guitar in front of warmed teenager audience. That does not make the message you deliver less strong though.

Empathy is irrelevant, you assume that an artist must love the humans which is only a delusional construction people imagined because listening or watching to artworks makes them feel "good" and in "connection" with the deliverer. You only need to understand them and express what you perceived by using a different way than the pure logical constructions, those are the appanage of other categories, philosophers, historians etc. Yet those two can write in an artistic way but then their analysis will be less indisputable.

Hard work is required in anything, when you want to make a difference with others, you need to work to transcend the mediocrity. This is not arguable.

Then zest for beauty is very subjective and depends what each finds beautiful. There is nothing I can find beautiful by my standards in the musical porn links I often see proposed here, but I also see that people enjoys them, so finally it is about what each one individually seeks or is in need for.

And there can not be any final answer about what makes one an artist. Being artist is not something which is achievable for everyone, so there must be other parameters we don't understand yet, like for example what makes one individual a powerful communicator.

But I would say being curious about the human nature and what makes it unique is something necessary, because finally all that you imagine or create has one target, the others.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2016 10:33 AM
Edited by artu at 10:35, 09 Aug 2016.

Well, as I said, the branch matters. While a violinist performing classical compositions of others may prioritize hard work and dedication, a singer/songwriter using simple folk music templates may prioritize sincerity and real life experience. A novelist experimenting with the linguistic structure has to be an intellectual, a surrealist painter may suggest that imagination is the skeleton key etc etc...
Quote:
Empathy is irrelevant, you assume that an artist must love the humans which is only a delusional construction people imagined because listening or watching to artworks makes them feel "good" and in "connection" with the deliverer. You only need to understand them and express what you perceived by using a different way than the pure logical constructions, those are the appanage of other categories, philosophers, historians etc. Yet those two can write in an artistic way but then their analysis will be less indisputable.

No, he doesn't have to love them, he can even be a pessimistic misanthrope but he has to be able to relate. A male writer creating a female character must have a high level of empathy, not in the sense that he must admire or feel affectionate for the character but in the sense that he must be able to contemplate "how would a 78 year old woman react in this situation, what would cross her mind?"
Quote:
Then zest for beauty is very subjective and depends what each finds beautiful. There is nothing I can find beautiful by my standards in the musical porn links I often see proposed here, but I also see that people enjoys them, so finally it is about what each one individually seeks or is in need for.

What constitutes beauty is indeed quite subjective but you can still argue that the zest for beauty itself (no matter by which criteria/school you fulfill the content of it) is still a constant. Like, while classical painters mainly focused on proportion and detail, the impressionists focused on light and color to achieve beauty but both a classical painter and an impressionist can be in search of an awe, something that captures you the moment you look at it, because it's simply just beautiful.
Quote:
And there can not be any final answer about what makes one an artist. Being artist is not something which is achievable for everyone, so there must be other parameters we don't understand yet.

I agree, but I'd rather put it like this: Because it is such a sophisticated combination of all of the above, it can not be learned in the manner of learning to be a good accountant or grocer. We know the parameters rather quite well, we just can't fabricate them by education alone.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted August 10, 2016 01:18 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 01:31, 10 Aug 2016.

Well this isnt an easy question,  but I say number 4 is the most important because: art without an audience becomes meaningless (that's my philosophy anyway: a masterpiece lost in the vacuum of space might as well be a rock)  and you can't have an audience unless the art speaks to them on some level

Ofc you can write/paint/dance/compose etc with a lot of human connection and it might suck in other ways,  but all of the categories are important. You want all five of them.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted August 10, 2016 06:02 AM

1st post after the OP and JollyJoker swan dives at the opportunity to nit pick the poll.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted August 10, 2016 11:29 AM

Thanks for your appreciation.

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Homer171
Homer171


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Supreme Hero
posted August 10, 2016 11:30 AM

Number 5 option, altough it does not sound very sexy, it's the most close to the truth imo. Call it embathy or the talent to speak to your audiance by your work of art is important but before that. Hard work, dedication, passion, all that drives the artist to that goal.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted August 10, 2016 12:33 PM

I personally am most impressed by artists who see something we don't but are able to give us a glimpse of it. Thse artists I consider geniouses. In that sense the first option hits home the best - imagination and originality. So see or think out of the box where we humans are confined in. That kind of art moves me.
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Baronus
Baronus


Legendary Hero
posted August 10, 2016 01:31 PM

Its hard to talk. It is artistic special sense and special ability. Creativity, imagination etc. are important in all human activity. But art is creation in beauty area. So artist must have this specifical skill.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


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Scourge of God
posted August 10, 2016 02:19 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 14:59, 10 Aug 2016.

I would go for sincerity but not real life experience, you don't need to have experienced something to be able to feel the emotion that such an experience would trigger.

Been looking over the songs I singled out that i really enjoyed, and all of them have that air around them like they know just what to notes to get the emotion across that they're feeling, but unlikely that they've ever had real life experience.


On that note I should probably ask what you meant by 'real life experience' and for that matter what does 'art' entail (I assume all forms of art, musical, sculptures, architecture etc).


Anyway I went with empathy, but a lot of the options can be interchanged and interwoven.

To me art is a form of communication.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 10, 2016 09:23 PM
Edited by artu at 21:38, 10 Aug 2016.

Tsar said:
On that note I should probably ask what you meant by 'real life experience' and for that matter what does 'art' entail (I assume all forms of art, musical, sculptures, architecture etc).

Well, according to some, going through some real pain, struggle gives an artist an edge that nothing else can. First example that pops in my head would be Ella Fitzgerald versus Billie Holiday, Fitzgerald obviously has superior technique but Holiday had such a hard life, it's like she transmits a different level of genuinity when she sings "about it."

Another example would be the death squad experience of Dostoyevsky. At some point the Tsar decides that some of the Russian  intelligentsia went too far in their radical ideas and decides to play a trick on them. They are taken by a group of soldiers, blindfolded, put on line in front of the rifles but just before the soldiers shoot, a last minute "act of grace" arrives and the Tsar's letter that forgives them is read out loud to them. The whole thing is staged, they were never meant to be executed but they didn't know that. And then Dostoyevsky is sent to 4 years of exile to a prison in Siberia. Most critics agree, after this, his work reached a new level of depth that was not seen before and all of his masterpieces are written afterwards. (I remember reading Henri Troyat explaining how prison ruined Oscar Wilde but elevated Dostoyevsky because he "breathes easier facing the extraordinary.")

When I was 20, just before a few of my own stories got published, I was having a chat with a locally famous novelist, he got many novels published and won book awards and all. He told me, mainly there were two kinds of writers, there were the ones with a quality library and a zest for literature, then there were the ones who traveled the world as a sailor, drove an ambulance during the war etc... collecting life. He himself was a member of a radical leftist group in his youth back in the 70's and he told me "no book can teach you the feeling of walking into a hotel lobby with a grenade in your pocket."

I don't fully agree with this perspective but it's not complete trash either. You know the famous Orson Welles quote from the Third Man:
 
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed, and they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock.  
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Warmonger
Warmonger


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fallen artist
posted August 10, 2016 09:27 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 21:28, 10 Aug 2016.

Quote:
What do you think is the most important in an artist?

What kind of artist? Successful one, maybe?

Being "artist" is like being "cool", it doesn't mean much at all.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 11, 2016 09:59 PM

JollyJoker said:
Discipline and hard work are necessary when you have to force yourself into something with your rational mind: I must do this, because...


As I must learn how to play an instrument because I want to do music? Or I must learn how to draw if I want to paint?
Etc
Discipline and hard work are mandatory from the point you seriously commit, otherwise you're just fooling around.

Quote:
However, with the artist it's more like, trying yet again, because it's still not RIGHT, which has to do more with ... well, passion and perseverance.


That's more related to creation/perfectionism (through passion and perseverance indeed), hopefully we can call some things done and move on to what's up next, there is a lot of stuff you can get "right" with 100% accuracy, like mastering various elements needed to serve better the art.

Quote:
And I think there is no real reduction of talent to more mundane things - no amount of disciplined work can bring ... inspiration which is also something dearly needed.


Where do you think inspiration comes from?

Warmonger said:

Being "artist" is like being "cool", it doesn't mean much at all.


I don't understand what you mean by that.
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fred79
fred79


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posted August 11, 2016 10:30 PM

i agree with blizz. you need all of that(give or take), to be an artist.

art is important, because it conveys so much. you can't half-ass art. you have to be fully invested, or you'll just produce snow. emotion is at the core of all art. i think, the more emotional you are as a person(whether that be open or stifled emotion), the better of an artist you can be. but just being emotional, doesn't mean that you can produce great art. you have to have talent, and an eye/ear for it. both of those things can be worked on, but if you're not improving, you're not an artist. perserverance and knowhow are what it takes to master something. if you're missing either of those, you won't make master anything.

i'm sure even picasso started off drawing stick figures.

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