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| Thread: Creature genders of HoMM/MM:H, the complete survey |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 16, 2016 07:34 PM |
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Creature genders of HoMM/MM:H, the complete survey
After previous discussions on the issue of perceived male creature overrepresentation in the past and the present, I've decided to discern the gender gap through the history of the series, especially comparing the difference before and after Ubi took over.
Methodology: Upgrades and unupgraded creatures are counted as one creature. If the upgrade changes the creature's sex, the creature is split in 0.5 for each sex. A creature that doesn't have a discernible gender is counted as “Unknown/None”.
Heroes 1
Knight
Male: 5
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 1
Sorceress
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 2
Barbarian
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 2
Warlock
Male: 0
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 5
Neutrals
Male: 3
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 0
Result:
Male: 12 (42.8%)
Female: 6 (21.4%)
Unknown/None: 10 (35.7%)
Heroes 2
Knight
Male: 4
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 1
Sorceress
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 2
Barbarian
Male: 2
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Warlock
Male: 1
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 5
Necromancer
Male: 2
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 4
Wizard
Male: 3
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 3
Neutrals
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 5
Result:
Male: 16 (35.5%)
Female: 6 (13.3%)
Unknown/None: 23 (51.1%)
Heroes 3
Castle
Male: 4.5
Female: 0.5
Unknown/None: 2
Rampart
Male: 2.5
Female: 1.5
Unknown/None: 3
Tower
Male: 2.5
Female: 1.5
Unknown/None: 3
Inferno
Male: 3
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 4
Necropolis
Male: 2
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 4
Dungeon
Male: 1
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 4
Stonghold
Male: 5
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 2
Fortress
Male: 2
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 5
Conflux
Male: 0
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 6
Neutrals
Male: 5
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 8
Result:
Male: 27.5 (35.2%)
Female: 9.5 (12.1%)
Unknown/None: 41 (52.5%)
Heroes 4
Asylum
Male: 2
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 5
Academy
Male: 3
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 2
Necropolis
Male: 2
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 5
Stronghold
Male: 4
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Haven
Male: 5
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 3
Preserve
Male: 0
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 6
Neutrals
Male: 3
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 10
Result:
Males: 19 (31.6%)
Females: 10 (16.6%)
Unknown/None: 31 (51.6%)
Heroes 5
Haven
Male: 5
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 1
Academy
Male: 3
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 4
Necropolis
Male: 3
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 4
Inferno
Male: 3
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Dungeon
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 3
Sylvan
Male: 3
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Fortress
Male: 6
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 1
Stronghold
Male: 5
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 1
Neutrals
Male: 1
Female: 0
Unknown/None: 5
Result:
Male: 31 (50%)
Female: 6 (9.6%)
Unknown/None: 25 (40.3%)
Heroes 6
Dungeon
Male: 2
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 4
Haven
Male: 3
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 1
Inferno
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 3
Necropolis
Male: 4
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 0
Sanctuary
Male: 3
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 1
Stronghold
Male: 5
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 0
Neutrals
Male: 3
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 7
Result:
Male: 22 (41.5%)
Female: 15 (28.3%)
Unknown/None: 16 (30.1%)
Heroes 7
Academy
Male: 4
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Dungeon
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 4
Haven
Male: 5
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 2
Necropolis
Male: 2
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 4
Stronghold
Male: 4
Female: 2
Unknown/None: 2
Sylvan
Male: 2
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 3
Fortress
Male: 4
Female: 1
Unknown/None: 3
Neutrals
Male: 9
Female: 3
Unknown/None: 10
Result:
Male: 32 (39.5%)
Female: 18 (22.2%)
Unknown/None: 31 (38.2%)
Additional statistics:
Average male creature percentage, all games: 39.4%
Average female creature percentage, all games: 17.6%
Average ambiguous/other creature percentage, all games: 42.7%
Average male creature percentage under NWC: 36.2%
Average female creature percentage under NWC: 15.85%
Average ambiguous/other creature percentage under NWC: 47.7%
Average male creature percentage under Ubi: 43.6%
Average female creature percentage under Ubi: 20.0%
Average ambiguous/other creature percentage under Ubi: 36.2%
Conclusions
Through all of the series history, the Knight/Castle/Haven town has been notoriously male-dominated. It is also the only (mostly) racially homogeneous town of the NWC series. Most of the other towns, who are strictly theme-based (notably Warlock/Dungeon/Chaos) are more volatile when it comes to creature genders. There seems to be a correlation between race-based factions and male creature overrepresentation.
Regarding the difference between Ubi and NWC, the big difference in sex percentages isn't actually between females and males, but between gendered and gender-ambiguous creatures, due the shift to race-based instead of theme-based factions. Ubi increased the number of males by on average 7.4% and the amount of females by 4.15%. Ignoring the gender-ambiguous creatures, the male creature overrepresentation were 20.35% on average in the NWC games and 23.4% on average in the Ubi games. Thus, Ubi increased male unit overrepresentation by 3.05%. The difference is negligible though.
Looking through the creature pages through the series it also seems that Ubi has spearheaded the sexualization of female units in their games, with most having overexposed and way above-averagely sized breasts while also looking close to anorectic at the same time. In their defence though – this can be seen as a consequence of the 3D animations which really enables the developers to do these things – we cannot know if the NWC would have done the same if they had developed games in our age.
In conclusion, while Ubi had a small negative effect on the creature gender gap, there are several other notable differences, such as the disappearance of many iconic beastly creatures (who were mostly gender-ambiguous) as well as the portrayal of those female creatures that are much more notable when looking at the direction the series have taken under Ubi. The gender cap has, however, been a lot more notable due the former. I'm all for having more (non-oversexualized) female creatures and is looking forward to present a HoMM VIII proposal with a substantial amount of those in the near future, once I've finished it. 
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 16, 2016 07:50 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 19:50, 16 Aug 2016.
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Quick note, aside from the prevalence of boob plates (may they burn in hell), sexualization of female creatures all but disappeared after H5 where we reached peak "sexy Dark elf" (and I'd like to add the assassin/stalker is clearly female. you can see her bra strap).
there are still a few things to take issue with in H7 but it's noticeably better in that department than H5 and possibly even 1-3 (Oh, I have some words on this, just you wait).
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 07:53 PM |
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 07:55 PM |
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Are you counting gargoyles in h1 as female and Paladins as unknown? 
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 16, 2016 08:02 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 20:03, 16 Aug 2016.
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kiryu133 said:
Quick note, aside from the prevalence of boob plates (may they burn in hell), sexualization of female creatures all but disappeared after H5 where we reached peak "sexy Dark elf" (and I'd like to add the assassin/stalker is clearly female. you can see her bra strap).
there are still a few things to take issue with in H7 but it's noticeably better in that department than H5 and possibly even 1-3 (Oh, I have some words on this, just you wait).
Thanks for noting that!
While H5 was an all-time low in this regard with the introduction of BDSM dark elves, I do think the "way above-average size boobs, anorectic waists" became really notable in H6-H7, the H7 dryad and centaur being the prime examples.
Worst example from H3 I can think of is the Pixie, but you hardly saw her anywhere, as she was quickly upgraded and got a fitting blue dress.
The_Green_Drag said:
Are you counting gargoyles in h1 as female and Paladins as unknown?
No, but the Centaurs.
Yeah. They don't have a discernible gender.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted August 16, 2016 08:46 PM |
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I think your numbers is a big ambiguous, I understand if it's too much work to ask, but it would be easier to understand if you wrote what units you count as males or females. E.g. the H1 Centaur definitely looks male when looking closely due to the lack of female breasts. Another example is what unit do in your opinion change gender upon being upgraded?
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted August 16, 2016 09:18 PM |
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Wait, are you telling me the minotaur and centaur where genderless in Heroes 1?
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 16, 2016 09:31 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 21:34, 16 Aug 2016.
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OhforfSake said:
I think your numbers is a big ambiguous, I understand if it's too much work to ask, but it would be easier to understand if you wrote what units you count as males or females. E.g. the H1 Centaur definitely looks male when looking closely due to the lack of female breasts. Another example is what unit do in your opinion change gender upon being upgraded?
Fair point. I think I'll post a Version 2 with the creatures in brackets around tomorrow. The upgrade thing mostly concerns Angels/Archangels, Centaurs/Centaur Captains and Genies/Master Genies.
True there, although it's honestly very hard to tell. I'll consider changing that.
Mediczero said:
Wait, are you telling me the minotaur and centaur where genderless in Heroes 1?
How does the minotaur have a discenible gender? By having muscles? You mean females can't have those?
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted August 16, 2016 09:42 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
How does the minotaur have a discenible gender? By having muscles? You mean females can't have those?
What I mean it's clearly masculine enough to be called a male. Doesn't need to have it's "limb" hanging out or anything. And there is no excuse for the centaur, especially since you consider the gargoyle female.
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 16, 2016 09:50 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 21:51, 16 Aug 2016.
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Mediczero said:
AnkVaati said:
How does the minotaur have a discenible gender? By having muscles? You mean females can't have those?
What I mean it's clearly masculine enough to be called a male. Doesn't need to have it's "limb" hanging out or anything. And there is no excuse for the centaur, especially since you consider the gargoyle female.
Again: how do you tell it's "male"? What's male about it? The muscles? When the upgrade is called "Minotaur King", sure, but that's not the case in Heroes 1. It's gender-ambiguous, you can't clearly tell if it's male or female.
I don't. I considered the Centaur female. But I get it's debatable.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2016 07:35 AM |
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Yeah, a list of what you count as male and female is needed, as I simply can't figure out how you're coming up with a lot of your figures.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 17, 2016 10:37 AM |
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Quote:
Again: how do you tell it's "male"? What's male about it? The muscles? When the upgrade is called "Minotaur King", sure, but that's not the case in Heroes 1. It's gender-ambiguous, you can't clearly tell if it's male or female.
Maybe because it is Part BULL and human and not part COW?
I have to say I am pretty certain minotaur is male, too. It's not jsut the muscles it's also that it's male by mythology.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 17, 2016 11:17 AM |
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But in mythology, there was only 1 Minotaur  . Hard to miss the fact that it was derived from a bull. But in Heroes, there are more Minotaurs. If there aren't female Minotaurs, how do they reproduce?
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 17, 2016 11:32 AM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 11:32, 17 Aug 2016.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted August 17, 2016 11:33 AM |
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AnkVaati said:
Mediczero said:
Wait, are you telling me the minotaur and centaur where genderless in Heroes 1?
How does the minotaur have a discenible gender? By having muscles? You mean females can't have those?
Minotaur females were in MM7 or MM8 and looked like cows.
Centaurs can be only males, according to greek myths they breed by capturing human females and making them pregnant.
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ErevasTheElder
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 17, 2016 03:23 PM |
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Gender gaps, gender quotas lol. This ain't a liberal campus, what you don't have in that graph is that 90 % of buyers are male, thus the units. When women buy more homm games instead of languishing on Facebook and playing farmville games then maybe the devs can make a new faction who will be all women. The first unit will be a black lesbian midget who will be a shooter,the second unit will be a cross dressing elf, the third a transgendered minotaur who will have both ripped muscles and d-cups armed with a two-handed spiked dildo....and the last unit will be good old-fashioned blue haired fat feminist on a bike to support her weight,she will have a speed of 3, BUT her ultimate will be screeching for equality and the game will immediately increase her stats by 400% so she can compete...
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 17, 2016 03:59 PM |
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Macron1 said:
Minotaur females were in MM7 or MM8 and looked like cows.
Centaurs can be only males, according to greek myths they breed by capturing human females and making them pregnant.
While that may be it's not necessary the cause in Heroes though. Ubi managed to make sexualized females out of them in H7 after all lol.
ErevasTheElder said:
Gender gaps, gender quotas lol. This ain't a liberal campus, what you don't have in that graph is that 90 % of buyers are male, thus the units. When women buy more homm games instead of languishing on Facebook and playing farmville games then maybe the devs can make a new faction who will be all women. The first unit will be a black lesbian midget who will be a shooter,the second unit will be a cross dressing elf, the third a transgendered minotaur who will have both ripped muscles and d-cups armed with a two-handed spiked dildo....and the last unit will be good old-fashioned blue haired fat feminist on a bike to support her weight,she will have a speed of 3, BUT her ultimate will be screeching for equality and the game will immediately increase her stats by 400% so she can compete...
I'm a conservative. Just countering liberal claims about NWC being gender biased and Ubi being pro-women lol. The only notable difference in that regard is a slight relative increase in male creatures during the later.
The only dragons we get to talk to in H4 (Elwin campaign), scenario 4 are lesbians btw.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 17, 2016 07:20 PM |
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ErevasTheElder said:
Gender gaps, gender quotas lol. This ain't a liberal campus, what you don't have in that graph is that 90 % of buyers are male, thus the units. When women buy more homm games instead of languishing on Facebook and playing farmville games then maybe the devs can make a new faction who will be all women. The first unit will be a black lesbian midget who will be a shooter,the second unit will be a cross dressing elf, the third a transgendered minotaur who will have both ripped muscles and d-cups armed with a two-handed spiked dildo....and the last unit will be good old-fashioned blue haired fat feminist on a bike to support her weight,she will have a speed of 3, BUT her ultimate will be screeching for equality and the game will immediately increase her stats by 400% so she can compete...
lmao
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 18, 2016 08:05 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:08, 18 Aug 2016.
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Macron1 said:
Centaurs can be only males, according to greek myths they breed by capturing human females and making them pregnant.
In later myths there are female centaurs, called centaurides.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 19, 2016 09:41 AM |
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Time to dig into this, well, particularly this part:
AnkVaati said:
Looking through the creature pages through the series it also seems that Ubi has spearheaded the sexualization of female units in their games, with most having overexposed and way above-averagely sized breasts while also looking close to anorectic at the same time. In their defence though – this can be seen as a consequence of the 3D animations which really enables the developers to do these things – we cannot know if the NWC would have done the same if they had developed games in our age.
But whatever, let's do this 
First of all, bigger boobs and waists n' stuff is not necessarily sexualization. That lies in presentation and when it comes to that, H5 is by far the worst. Every single female creature had her sexual identity supercharged compared to any male creature and I'd like to use the stronghold lineup to illustrate this point.
here are the four "humanoid" creatures in that lineup:
Goblin
Orc
Big Orc
Shaman
Notice the difference? Why is the shaman practically human in looks not to mention super duper attractive looking compared to all her male counterparts (which, i remind you, are all orcs) who gets to be all kinds of ugly, malformed and weird looking? THIS, combined with her animations which has her swing her hips seductively and do somewhat erotic dances which highlight her sexyness compared to the orcs who gets all kinds of rough and brutal animations highlighting their power and ferocity or sneaky cowardice in the case of the gobbos. The problem is that she is singled out because she is a woman instead of actually making her her own character to emphasize her connection to magic or whatever (or don't make the only female creature in the lineup a mage but the big, burly fighter. That'd be cool too) instead of just emphasizing her assets.
So the orcs were ridiculous in this regard and we all know about what is wrong with dungeon (the same damn thing except turned up to eleven) so let's take a look where in H5 they did kinda cool. Haven.
Haven, like stronghold, only has one female creature and while she is somewhat singled out due to being a frikkin angel it's still a pretty great design and her animations and model highlights her devotion and calmness and snow instead of her assets, whihc is fantastic. in fact, haven is pretty good throughout the franchise even in hero department (aside from that armoured leotard Catherine had and the boobplates) so kudos to that!
But whatever, let's move to H7 where efforts were made and they were pretty great with a couple of silly mistakes that's only notable if you look too much into it.
The Guardian/Justicar is the greatest haven design (and probs my favourite unit ever) of the franchises history.
Her design is that of confidense and power and her animations reinforce that beautifully. The broblem is that remaining haven troops do not follow similar designs, instead opting for faceless and disposable mooks which in comparison makes her special presumably for the one thing that sets her apart: being a woman. That is a weird problem considering her design is better than any of the others, showing enough face to humanize her but still being protected enough to be sensible while having the men being nothing but pawns to be sacrificed at your leisure. It's a sexist attitude that women should somehow be presented as more special in a battlefield setting and should be cherished/protected while men are expandable. which is a shame because on its own, her design is flawless but when put in context it brings some weird baggage that I'm probably overthinking but whatever.
When it comes to a faction lineup that does pretty much everything right, I'd say look at H7 academy. Can't really see anything wrong with it outside the one thing that I'll talk about next but it's not so much a fault of the lineup as it is of the game as a whole.
So, the biggest fault with female representation in H7, however, is what roles and creates get to be female: creatures that are either quick strikers or archers/mages. not a single tank, champ or even above-average creature (there was one create per tear that was kind of halfway towards the next tier like the Rakshasa) is female. Limiting what roles are allowed to be female is much more of a problem than anything else.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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