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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Are you a Haste person or Slow person ?
Thread: Are you a Haste person or Slow person ? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
b0rsuk
b0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted August 30, 2016 11:12 PM
Edited by b0rsuk at 10:11, 13 Sep 2016.

Are you a Haste person or Slow person ?

There are Cat people nad Dog people. HOMM has Haste people and Slow people. Which are you ?

At first the spells look very similar. They do roughly the same thing to initiative - they let your units shoot first.

Slow people prefer shooting units. Slow increases the time before the clash, letting you shoot more arrows at enemy.

Haste people are bloodthirsty. They like to chop their enemies as soon as they see them.

Slow has multiplicative effect, it reduces speed up to -50% of unit's base speed. Biggest effect if enemy has fast units.

Haste grants a static bonus of up to +5. Best effect on slow units like zombies and golems.

Slow people are sometimes thwarted by Magic Resistance, coming from hero skill or units.

Haste people have no such problem. A minor problem is when enemy uses negative enchantments on hasted units - you need Cure for optimum results, because Dispel will take out Haste.

Slow people have no chance to find Cure. But they can use Antimagic with impunity.

Haste may increase damage dealt by Champions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYI7FPshSI

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted August 31, 2016 12:00 AM


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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 31, 2016 12:17 AM

It really depends on the situation, both your army composition as well as that of the enemy.

Yours: heavy on melee
Theirs: heavy on archers
You will prefer Haste, your enemy will prefer Slow.

Yours: heavy on archers
Theirs: heavy on melee
Exactly the opposite as above and hence, you will prefer Slow whereas the enemy will prefer Haste.

Yours: heavy on archers
Theirs: heavy on archers
Since neither side is really interested in clashing in melee, it's mostly up for grabs. Haste means your archers get to act sooner, Slow means the enemy archers get to act later. This applies for either side. However, Haste has a cutting edge here in that it doesn't run the chance of a Magic Resistance on the enemy (which includes creatures with an innate Magic Resistance / Immunity) and hence is likely prefered over Slow.

Yours: heavy on melee
Theirs: heavy on melee
Same deal as above, but for different reasons: you will want to deal the first blow. If you have Cavaliers/Champions, you'll likely prefer Haste, whereas if the enemy fields them, Slow might be the better option.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 31, 2016 12:18 AM

Depends on what faction I play.
Slow won't stop shooters though, Haste is better against them.

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Gravorce
Gravorce


Adventuring Hero
posted September 10, 2016 01:51 AM

I agree it depends on the situation but i do tend to cast haste much more often than slow.

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MeKick
MeKick


Hired Hero
posted September 12, 2016 10:00 PM

Gravorce said:
I agree it depends on the situation but i do tend to cast haste much more often than slow.


Reverse for me, especially taking into account that there are fewer ranged creatures than melee creatures in Heroes III.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted September 12, 2016 10:08 PM

more haste less speed lol
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 12, 2016 10:38 PM

Why would anyone admit they're a slow person? Unless they're really slow...
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 12, 2016 10:39 PM

b0rsuk said:
Slow has multiplicative effect, it reduces speed up to -50% of unit's base speed. Biggest effect if enemy has fast units.

Haste grants a static bonus of up to +5. Best effect on slow units like zombies and golems.


That is one way to look at it. Alternatively: "Will haste allow my unit to reach my enemy?" Which usually can be shortened to: "Will haste allow my unit to cross the length of the battle field in one turn?". Here the slower units have less advantage (not to mention they're more cumbersome to bring into a battle anyway). Also there's who'll go first, which I find important, where again the slower units have less of an advantage.

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted September 12, 2016 10:52 PM

I'm more of a slow-person and a debuff-guy in general. Partly because I like using ranged troops more - but also because it gives me the feeling of being in control.
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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted September 15, 2016 01:26 PM

b0rsuk said:
There are Cat people nad Dog people. HOMM has Haste people and Slow people. Which are you ?

in human vs human games, in general, i would prefer Slow because it's hard to Haste ALL ARMY over the opponent (so he would not cast Slow immediately) and make full damage. However each situation is unique and mass Haste is of course very powerful
b0rsuk said:

Slow people are sometimes thwarted by Magic Resistance, coming from hero skill or units.

Not really. Pretty rare situation
b0rsuk said:

A minor problem is when enemy uses negative enchantments on hasted units - you need Cure for optimum results, because Dispel will take out Haste.

What?? Do you think that your unit will be Hasted if you will remove Slow with Cure? That's wrong. There is no difference between Cure and Dispel. Units will have normal speed anyway.
b0rsuk said:

Slow people have no chance to find Cure.

WTF?
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b0rsuk
b0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted September 15, 2016 05:08 PM
Edited by b0rsuk at 17:08, 15 Sep 2016.

SAG said:

A minor problem is when enemy uses negative enchantments on hasted units - you need Cure for optimum results, because Dispel will take out Haste.

What?? Do you think that your unit will be Hasted if you will remove Slow with Cure? That's wrong. There is no difference between Cure and Dispel. Units will have normal speed anyway.
b0rsuk said:

Slow people have no chance to find Cure.

WTF?

OK I need to be more literal.

Imagine a situation like this:
1. You cast Expert Haste
2. Opponent casts Expert Forgetfulness.

Your units now have positive and negative enchantments. You can selectively remove the bad ones with Expert Cure. If you cast Expert Dispel, you will remove spells that are beneficial to you as well as Forgetfulness.

Another scenario.
1. You cast Expert Slow
2. Opponent casts Expert Prayer

Enemy units now have positive and negative enchantments. You can Expert Dispel to remove all of them, even the Slow. But there's no spell similar to Cure that would only remove the spells you want.

Heroes IV has Cancellation that does exactly that. It removes only positive spells from enemies.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 15, 2016 05:46 PM

Btw. isn't it cancellation that removes illusion units as well?

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2016 12:34 AM

Haste because it's better to attack before you get attacked by. Secondly it's harder to manipulate. Most times you want both but if the question is Haste or Slow you can't have both. That does not mean enemy can't use both. 1 round, you cast slow and the opponent cast slow. 2 round, you wait and opponent cast Haste and attacks with all, what will you do now?

If you would take Haste, no mather what the opponent will cast, you can "counter" with Haste. Haste -> Haste, Slow -> Haste. The fanctions that have good offensive line-up has the most value of this, like Castle and Stronghold. Castle = AA's start the match, haste all, 1 creature stack of AA's hits opponent 7lv, then followed by "real" AA's, RGrif and Champions. Haste takes the win here, a real no brainer. Stronghold = Two things. Barbarian attack bonus and ABeh's special. Now, if your opponent slows Stronghold army and it has no haste to counter, it's horrible. Whole line-up cryes out for haste, attack oriented hero, weak creatures like wolf and goblins but can make damage if (and only) they attack first, slow but strong "tanks" ABehemonths and Ogre Magis are just sitting targets if slowed (and don't know the secret remedy,haste). You will want to have the option to mass haste these creatures, because sometimes best defence is good offence, that's the case for Barbarians, right ol' Hack my bro?

Slow is almost as good but not in end where everything is settled. Slow is better spell against wandering monsters on the advanture map than the haste. You manipulate a.i that you don't take losses, pretty simple. Best benefit has the Tower from this as they have 3 ranged creatures. Your Master Gremlin hordes can appreciate this spell quite nicely. Important question here is: Does the mass slow spell give you enough advantage on mid-game speed, that the result would win it over haste spell last battle value? No. There are millions of ways to gripple stupid a.i and to be fair, haste has it good uses in creeping as well, sayonara Sharpshooters!

Haste is best battle spell in the game, it can either make you or brake you, that's just how it goes
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 16, 2016 01:59 AM

Depends on units as Maurice summed it up but also your hero and faction. If I play Necro, I'll be getting expert Earth Magic first, hence I will use Slow, if I play Tower, Air Magic will most probably come in more handy cause Tower guild provides Chain Lightning or Dimension Door quite often, so my priority will be Air Magic, and so on...  
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 16, 2016 02:38 AM

In all cases, supposing you have a challenging game -not vs AI on 60%, you should go for earth first. That's because, in order to build that guild and get possibly DD or else, you still have to explore and conquer the map, fight against mobs and against AI, or mass haste cannot match mass slow effectiveness, just count the casualties when using one then the other. Moreover, tower is a defensive faction, with titans, mages and genies acting from the back, so you would want to keep the enemies as far as possible.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 16, 2016 02:54 AM

Well, Tower is indeed a shooter town with genies also standing their ground, so it was maybe a "hasty" example. But there are faction or hero/mage guild based situations where haste seems more practical to me.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2016 03:25 AM

You will get both schools eventually anyway, unless you have all other skills expert level at the time you are affored them both at the same time. (Rare!) Earth is faster gameplay wise, plus you can get Town Portal in Mage Guild 4 already. Castle only change to get "superspell" infact but I rarely build Mage Guild 4 on first town when playing Castle. Depends on the map tough.

I once think, I can easily miss one or what if they pop-up at the same time but it's not realistic.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 16, 2016 03:28 AM

The opening phase is the hardest for every faction, when physical contact must be avoided. Slow is a defensive spell, good when you have weak army, haste is purely offensive, good when you can deal lethal damage without getting retaliated. So is all about priorities imo, I would always* pick earth over air when first magic school is proposed, then ofc pick air over any other when the second is proposed. Then water. Fire never unless I play wog and all skills in.

Also sometimes (quite often) you may be forced to pick the one you don't prioritize in general, like when playing maps with few towns and you don't get slow in guild but haste and viceversa. Mass earth without slow spell is a duck.

*with a single exception, necro. I would always pick air first, those skells are terribly slow, they are the main force and they have to go to contact.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 16, 2016 04:01 AM

When I play Necro, I usually leave the zombies in town for protection, i dont move the skeletons much so they stack more, absorbing all shooters (in single player, shooters almost always aim for your skellies).To the space left out from zombies, I divide the dread nights into two, they are my main attackers. Works perfectly with my WoG settings, since the Dread Knights get faster as they gain experience.
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