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| Thread: ICM Mod, Restarting the project | |
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 13, 2016 11:56 PM |
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ICM Mod, Restarting the project
Mod goals
Main goal
The main goal of the project is to create a Mode for heroes that focus on multiplayer and relies on very high interaction between the players instead of playing the AI. Some people, will say this is not heroes 3, but this is intended to reflect my early experiences with heroes multiplayer in original cd maps, before players learned to exploit the game and it become the standard to play extremly close and rich maps with no player interaction.
The game is intended to play in maps like this (this map is an obvious work in progress and working on finishing it but I get an idea)
Iīm also working on RMG templates that create a similar experience.
Overmap
Undermap
Here is an example of an RMG created map with my template.
General Subgoals
Reduce Movement
Movement in heroes is insane and unnecessarily so. The game is played often in a 100x100 grid with 2 levels, where units can move 15-20 spaces, sometimes with bonus and what not it can reach easily 50 spaces. Imagine someone proposing a game where that is true, in a vacuum it looks insane and for the purpose of this mod, it is.
As in all strategy games, speed is a very important factor, and is no different in heroes 3, so players generally value very very highly movement boosts.
Currents plans to achieve that:
I want to slowly start eroding on heroes speed, lowering the boosts, making movement boosts more expensive/rare, and generally diminishing heroes speed. I donīt know how far I want to push it, but i want to push in this direction, but I know itīs a need.
In this regard itīs very important to remove 2 "exploits". Hero teleportation and hero chaining.
A hero can move to any where in the map with a single trick, make him attack an army of neturals, retreat, and he is available to buy on ANY CASTLE for 2500 gold. So for 2500 gold you can teleport him anywhere in the map. This undermine completely the goal of the mod and thus this will be removed in one way or another.
Heroes ability to transfer armies at nonsensical speed from point of the map to another, is a problem, and optimal strategies involve having a big army that can be transfered from hero to hero as needed in one turn, from one part of the map to another. For that reason I already have a script that makes it so when two heroes meet, they both get MP equal to the one with less MP.
Highly reducing AI fights:
Fighting the AI is to most current heroes player what the game is about, who can kill AI more efficiently. But that is the opposite of the goal of this mod.
Current plans to achieve that.
So i want to slowly remove AI fights, to the point to remove them from the game completly if possible. Sadly a few mechanics are tied to it (Like necropolis skeleton farming).
Ultimately I want fights vs AI to be fight in quick mode, but to compensate I want to give incentives for players to engage with each other without the loser side, losing too much territory.
A few mechanics that Intend to achieve this goal to incentive PvP combat:
-Defeated player Also gain XP for killing units.
-Ability of playes to guard mines and/or specific parts of the map extremly cheaply. I donīt have yet figured out the exact mechanic, but for example you can in a mine let a Pikeman in to be on his own in the mine, and he will recruit a group of pikemans, you canīt add it to your army, he will attack if you approach it, but if the opponets wants to take the mine, it has to fight it too, if possible controlled by the opponent player.
-Incentive people to defend castles. Right now if someone attack a castle the incentive is too buy everything and run. The goal is to create garrison type defends like in heroes 7. Maybe when you attack a castle you have to fight a week of growth of that castle in addition to whatever else the defending hero packs, in that sense I will strongly bump defending heroes, and ultimately Defending heroes will be able to escape or I just will remove "hero killings" from the game. If a player doesnīt escape the hero doesn't disappear, it will still be available following the escape rules. The only incentive to escape is to deny experience to the opponent hero.
-I will think what other mechanics will incentive people to generate PvP action.
Completly revamp the magic system:
I think that the most potential system in heroes to be interesting in PVP combat is the magic system. However Ive not figured it out how I want it to work.
Here are some things Iīm sure about though:
-All heroes will start with a spellbook, and all spellbooks will bring Magic arrow, Spellcasters will just come with a spell of their own. Some of my experience is that when you have a lot of small PvP fights, there is an increased risk of stalemate situations, having magic arrow with all heroes will reduce that effect early on. I intend to make Magic arrow extremly cheap or just free.
-I want to cap how many times per day a player can cast a spell, (or maybe just once per battle). For now the target is just one, with the exception of magic arrow which will be possible to cast infinite times.
Things Iīm thinking about:
Magic schools:
Should they exist? what is the purpose? What I see right now is that PvP will be highly based on magic and is maybe good to create an incentive to players to focus on some specific schools, so they can forego that benefit for the surprise factor of having a spell the opponent is not prepared for, i like that kind of mechanic.
For a while I thought of dividing like heroes 5. Buffs, debuffs, Damage and adventure spell. But i fear that may create undynamic combats where each side kind of knows what the other will do "hey he went destructive magic so he will just bomb everything".
So i think if I do Magic schools it will be similar to what is now, While giving each school some strengths and weakness, I probably want all schools being able to deal with all situations in their own specific way.
But Maybe the solution is to go heroes 2 and remove schools.
Magic guilds:
How random they should be?
I think the more random the guilds are the most the game test adaptabilty of the player. "ok What can I do with the given spells". But reduce PVP interactivity "Hey, I know this player or this faction want to go for haste, so im sure he went for haste" if the opponent canīt go for haste, then that situation never arises.
Maybe the guild is random but for a price you can get a specific spell? i donīt know.
If there are magic schools should player be able to construct magic guilds of that school or the magic guild school is determined by the faction? or maybe the magic guild school have different prices for different factions? For example Tower has a very cheap Air magic guild but very expensive Fire magic guild. Etc etc.
Maybe Magic guilds aren't from a school and you can buy spells and Tower have cheap air spells but expensive fire spells and Inferno have cheap fire spells but expensive Air spells.
I donīt have the answer to these questions.
Mana regeneration:
Mana is a big issue when there is a lot of combats, and I experienced is a pain to balance. What Iīm strongly considering is that players regenerate all magic at the end of the day.
In that regard im considering to add mana regeneration in combat. This will help remove (along with magic arrow) completly the stalemate problem. My only concern is the exploit of people making a fight longer, just to recover the mana.
Situation: I attack a castle, and i use a lot of magic to cleanup, then I use earthquake, Im almost out of mana. After taking the castle I plan to attack another hero that is in range. In order to have the mana, I will fly around making time to regenerate the mana.
So the situation can just be that all magic regenerate after combat, so there is no incentive to stall.
A problem of having all magic regenerated is that it makes it harder to balance adventure spell, since there is no reason to not cast them all the time, even if its one per day.
Maybe adventure spells cost non mana resources? (like Diamonds in might and magic series  )
Overall Iīm not sure what to do about mana regeneration.
Spellpower:
When it comes to enchantments what spellpower should do? Only affect duration? Should affect numerical values of the spell? Maybe affect both?
Should a 1 spellpower dispel nullify a 20 spellpower haste?
I can see many options but Iīm not sure what to do about spellpower yet.
Improve Feedback/information:
I want players to have easier information they would otherwise have if they spend a few minutes doing the math or if they have great memory. A good example is HOTA initiative bar for
combats.
For example I created a script where players can easily check how much gold their army is worth and how much gold range a scouted army is worth.
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 13, 2016 11:58 PM |
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Scripts needed given what I KNOW i want to change.
One spell per combat:
The idea is that everytime a hero casta spell, the spell dissapears from the spellbook. But they get the spellback when the combat ends or the day ends, whatever I decide itīs better.
Castle defend:
When defending with castles, it generate a stack of each creature with a building. The stack being the equivalent of a week of growth.
If possible the stack will only regenerate at the end of the week, but if its not possible, it will regenerate at each attack.
Remove hero teleportation:
A defeated hero will only be available able after X days or only starting next week.
Heroes canīt be killed:
If a player doesnīt escape the hero doesnt dissapear, it will still be available following the escape rules. The only incentive to escape is to deny experience to the opponent hero.
Mods wanted, but I donīt think I will be able to implement:
Allowng to program movement on the opponent turn:
Right now on the opponent turn you canīt do anything, it would be nice if you maybe even fake move heroes as to be able to calculate movement on your next turn.
Limit max number of hero: I want for players to only be able to have 6 active heroes on the map.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted September 14, 2016 12:27 AM |
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All new games in M&M are needed. It mustnt be only modification old egines. Create all you can. All good.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 14, 2016 02:06 AM |
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[qoute]Reduce Movement
If you'll reduce movement, heroes 3 will turn into unplayable game like Heroes 4, where it takes forever for heroes to walk.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted September 14, 2016 04:45 AM |
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cool 
once upon a time i started molding something similar out of tote. when my map designs surface ill share em.
looking forward to watching this project evolve 
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2016 05:02 AM |
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Macron1 said:
[qoute]Reduce Movement
If you'll reduce movement, heroes 3 will turn into unplayable game like Heroes 4, where it takes forever for heroes to walk.
I already tested this a lot, and had no problem, so Iīm not worried here. Thanks for feedback tough. 
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2016 06:06 AM |
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Ok This is my first draft on how I think Magic will look like in my mood, based on what i want and my scripting abilities, assuming they all work easily on multiplayer.
-There will be the original 4 Magic schools, but spells will be changed to fit design goals of each magic schools as follows.
*Air spells will be expensive but have bigger effects and with a big base effect. Basically Air magic is intended to for heroes that want to end the fight fast, however high knwoledge
heroes can Abuse air magic, by being able to pay the high magic demands for magic for quick effects. Air magic is intended to be "inneficient" in terms of magic points vs Effect but
efficient in terms of "effect per turn".
*Earth magic is intended to be a main magic for Spellcasters, with expensive spells both to make the fight last longer and cast expensive and powerfull damage spells. Earth magic will be
efficient as "effect" per turn, but Earth spells will be highly dependant on spellpower and demandind high amounts of magic points.
*Water Magic Will be highly favored by non spell casters, full of cheap utility spells that require little knowledgle or/and little spellpower, intended to nullify opponent superior magic
or just make good use of magic despite low spellpower or knowledge.
*Fire magic will be like Water, a cheap school. But intended to reward high spellpower, and offensive strategies.
-Spells can only be casted once per combat (I actually want them to be casted once per day, but i fear it will be too hard for me to script, but will see when it comes down to making the
script)
-Magic Expertise main function is to allow spells to be casted twice per combat/day. The higher the expertise the higher the level spells that can be casted per day. Magic expertise may
give other bonuses to spellpower effect, mana cost and what they can do. To be determined.
-Spell specialization may give an extra cast of the spell per day. To be determined
-If I can I will create new separate mass versions of the spells like heroes 2. I donīt know if I will be able to script that, if i canīt, I will thikn otherwise to add mass spells or just
remove mass spells.
Im also considering making mass spells available if you have the spell in your spellbook AND you have some secondary skill. However Mass spells will be extremly more expensive and maybe
even weaker.
-Magic guilds will now be cheaper but contain no magic spells of their own. Spells need to be added for a price. The price of adding a spell will vary depending on town and their "magic
school proficiency" For example in Towers, Air magic spells will be cheaper.
-All Heroes will start with a spellbook and the magic arrow spell. Spellcasters will still start with an additional spell of their own.
-Still a lot of tinkering when it comes to value of each town of magic but it looks like this for now
Tower A:Good E: Normal F:Normal W:Normal
Dungeon A:Poor E:Good F:Good W:Poor
Inferno: A:Normal E:Normal F:Good W:Poor
Necro: A: Normal E:good F:Poor W:Normal
Rampart: A: Poor E:Good F:Poor W:Good
Castle: A: Normal E: Normal F:Poor W:Good
Stronghold: A: Good E: Poor F:Normal W:Normal
Fortress: A: Poor E:Good F:Poor W:Good.
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