Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Dimension Door
Thread: Dimension Door This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 16, 2016 02:57 PM

Dimension Door

Let's discuss the spell Dimension Door:
Dimension Door is banned in many maps for good reasons, at expert Air Magic you can cast it 4 times a day and cover huge distances, it also allows you to skip guards and grab goodies behind monsters, Quest Guards and Border Guards and Gates and you can even use it in the shroud and from water to water!
What if the spell only allowed 1 cast from no Air Magic - advanced Air Magic and 2 casts at expert Air Magic? If the map is set up carefully you can't skip much with Dimension Door, would it be reasonable then? Or what does it take to make Dimension Door reasonable?  

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted September 16, 2016 03:06 PM

I like it how it is. Ban it for multi if you want, as for other maps good map maker will know how to use the spell. I wouldn't change anything.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 16, 2016 03:06 PM

You want areas where DD can be used freely, areas that is so to say your territory or neutral territory and you want areas where it can't be used freely so it's not an almost certain win/allows you to drag out the map, once you get the spell.

I don't think the spell itself is an issue, it's more how to control it. Cursed ground is the only thing that comes to my mind right now, which have the extra consequence of removing much more than only DD.

It's in a way easier with fly, though I find the non-flyable ground to be annoying in that I can't find much purpose in it otherwise. Also fly has exploits DD doesn't have.

Also there's the issue that a spell like DD makes a 144x144 map seem awfully small suddenly.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2016 03:19 PM

Yes, it's OP.

I like that the game has this spell, as do I enjoy mass haste/slow. Not balanced but they are part of classic HoMM. I perfectly understand they took it away in H4 and Town Portal changed to nearest town only. But Heroes 1-3 where quite similiar and this spell was from the start.

Now days the internet multiplaying gaming is so wide, you can't have that huge balance caps in games. H3 is old game and it has it's flaws but that's fine. You can set your own rules if you want to, I for one never liked cartographer and was really glad you can take it away in wog.

____________
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted September 16, 2016 03:54 PM

I think Dimension Door should require more movement points but allow to travel small distance like Instant Travel(Heroes 5 Dimension Door)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 16, 2016 03:57 PM
Edited by Maurice at 16:05, 16 Sep 2016.

It's all open for fantasizing of course, as it's unlikely any major changes are going to occur to the spell. That being said, I would opt to change the Dimension Door spell the following way:

Dimension Door: allows the caster to teleport to any unoccupied tile within the spells' range, once per day. Consumes a certain amount of movement points, depending on number of tiles crossed.

Unskilled: Range of 8 tiles, movement reduction by 5 tiles.
Basic: Range of 9 tiles, movement reduction by 4 tiles.
Advanced: Range of 10 tiles, movement reduction by 3 tiles.
Expert: Range of 11 tiles, movement reduction by 2 tiles.

Furthermore, you can't Dimension Door into territory you have not seen before (i.e., not into the shroud).

Besides that, the game should probably also allow for two items:
- An adventure map object that prohibits anyone from teleporting within X tiles radius of that object, except for the owner of said object;
- An artifact which pretty much does the same but then centered on the Hero who has it equipped;

Can of course come in multiple Tiers, with higher Tiers having a larger radius in which Dimension Door may not be targetted. This immediately allows map makers to prohibit players from teleporting into certain areas.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted September 17, 2016 08:34 PM
Edited by batoonike at 20:35, 17 Sep 2016.

It bypasses the most basic game mechanics. And makes it so that everyone is playing one game but the hero that has it is almost like playing another game where adventure map logic is not present. If there would be a spell that allows you to win a battle regardless of army or hero it would be on the same level with dimension door.

Balancing it would be difficult. Maybe if everyone could obtain it reasonably easily it could lead to a different game where teleporting around is part of the core logic.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 17, 2016 09:58 PM
Edited by Stevie at 21:58, 17 Sep 2016.

I agree with Maurice on how it could work.
Fly could also allow passage over forest and map objects, not mountains or water, at an increased movement points cost.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 17, 2016 10:00 PM

In Might and Magic 7 there's also the Fly spell. I recall In Nighon there exist a mountain so tall that you cannot fly to the top. Reaching the top by using the jump spell it turns out the mountain is actually a volcano.

So Fly having limits depending on the object would fit the world the game is based on in my opinion.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted September 17, 2016 10:47 PM
Edited by phe at 22:51, 17 Sep 2016.

Dimension Door mana cost could be depended on army size (HP sum);
Magic creatures like Mages, Enchanters, Soreceresses and Magic Elementals would decrease total cost (not by 1,2 or 3 but depending on their HP sum 10%, 20%, 30%, ...)
Dimension Door for magic classes of heroes would get : range +1 after 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 750, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000 casts etc.; after 250 casts it can teleport a hero from surface to underground or from underground to surface (to revealed place)

http://lifeandfreedom.rf.gd/lfb.htm#spells

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 17, 2016 11:18 PM

phe said:
Dimension Door mana cost could be depended on army size (HP sum);



Look, when you have dim door, you will most probably have town portal as well. Setting the cost to army size will just invite the players to go with a pixie, take a town then just town portal forth and back for rest of army.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted September 18, 2016 12:24 AM
Edited by phe at 00:27, 18 Sep 2016.

Salamandre said:
phe said:
Dimension Door mana cost could be depended on army size (HP sum);



Look, when you have dim door, you will most probably have town portal as well. Setting the cost to army size will just invite the players to go with a pixie, take a town then just town portal forth and back for rest of army.

Isn't it possible in vanilla game? Minimum cost would be this original value...just after your army will be larger than for example 3000HP DD mana cost will be 21 instead of 20...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
b0rsuk
b0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted September 18, 2016 10:23 AM
Edited by b0rsuk at 12:28, 18 Sep 2016.

What if Town Portal cost also depended on the size of the army ? Go around with a pixie if you want! I sure hope that one pixie is good in bed!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 18, 2016 10:42 AM

Well of course, you can make the game less fun, much more restricting, is not that hard.

In 16 years of playing I used/got dim door maybe 4-5 times. In random maps is removed, in custom maps is removed or added as an exceptional bonus in special situations. Dimension door is the top of the cake, very powerful and a tool of rewarding a player for exceptional effort. What I see here is penalizing the player who did the best, by burdening his actions. Make it more interesting by varying its effects, harder to get if you want.  

The point is, you don't have to consider that all features in Heroes must used in the common daily playing. Some are just very powerful ones, to be used in role playing driven maps or campaigns. Like DD, Aurora Borealis, Angel wings, Tome of Air and the necro Cloack.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 18, 2016 12:20 PM

Salamandre said:
What I see here is penalizing the player who did the best, by burdening his actions.


Actually, the aim is to pull DD out of that elitist niche and make it more readily accessible for everyday gameplay.

Personally, I think that adventure map objects with a certain radius that prevent Heroes from DD'ing to a target cell within that radius can alleviate most of the resistance against the spell, without truly affecting the spell itself.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 15, 2023 09:56 PM

I'm sure it has been discussed somewhere before, but what is up with the movement cost of Dimension Door? It's supposed to cost 300 movement points at unskilled - advanced and 200 movements points at expert, but it is somehow possible to cast it even if you have fewer movement points left than that, as long as you don't have 0.
Does anyone know how this works exactly?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
thecastrated
thecastrated


Known Hero
posted July 18, 2023 09:37 PM

Oh there are terrains you cannot use fly?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 19, 2023 12:25 PM

And DD is extreme OP than ordinary Fly, if player is experienced and known map make a combination cause extreme OP.. Otherwise noob plus unknown map show inelegant style or facepalmed that player enters Cursed Ground..

But time expires, underworld, from sea to another sea, etc are for DD.. A few 3D0 maps already proved, an example of the Dragon Slayer campaign showed that DD used all the time also saved spell points.. Hmm the easiest map, but noob players used their the best skills, went to against 4K Nagas also little used DD.. So what I played? (Wisdom, Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Pathfinding)*, Logistics or Archery also Diplomacy, and then Mysticism or Intelligence are 8th skill, if AB.. Ok, remember Mana artifacts *SoD I played yet the same strategy..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 19, 2023 04:45 PM

Picking Air Magic AND Pathfinding seems pretty redundant. Expert Fly makes Pathfinding completely useless.
Actually I see very little reason for Pathfinding to exist at all, especially if Angel Wings and those stupid green boots in HotA are allowed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 19, 2023 06:22 PM

You meet a Scholar gives Pathfinding in the Dragon Slayer campaign, you can ask why?! I picked all! What it teaches players.. You must trust them..

I think HotA ruined speed (Logistics), and then tried neutral terrains.. So their teachings..

Heroes 4? Ok we look together..

Name: Wayfaring Boots
Slot: Feet
Description: Hero gains +10 spell points, gains a 25% movement bonus and ignores all terrain penalties.

Even if Pathfinding skill gives +50% bonus plus without penalties, and +10 spell points, you can use a Mana potion, or other artifacts..

It looks like weird..


____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0450 seconds