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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The moral degradation of todays teens/young adults.
Thread: The moral degradation of todays teens/young adults. This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 04, 2016 06:18 PM

I find your thread title misleading. Moral degradation and hypersensitivity isn't the same thing.

What I'm gonna say is that kids are raised by adults, so blaming kids is in my opinion a short sighted view. This way of raising kids to be super sensible to any kind of controversial subject is a way to make them fall in line. Instead of falling in line, they don't even get in the way in the first place. Ever seen a situation where Mr. A does something to Mr. X to help him, and Mr. B does the exact same thing to Mr. X, but this time, to harm him? The extreme liberal philosophy is kind of like that. Liberal parents raise their kids like that because it's the moral thing to do, and our red neck elders in control wants us to be raised like that so we won't even dare talk about political subjects.

It got worse actually. Liberals of generation pasts still had the guts to take the streets and do stuff, they just never used violence. Now, it "evolved", we don't even want to talk about stuff.

All population has a more redneck view and a more liberal view. Recruit the rednecks in your crew, arm them with guns. Put pens in the hands of liberals and let them whine. I hope you now understand the role of extreme liberalism in today's society.

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted October 04, 2016 07:37 PM

Ohoh, are we going into this?

Rant warning.

Yep, maybe degradation isn't exactly the world to describe aptly the young'uns turning into weaklings that can't stand their ground against dissent.

I'd wish however that they were weak, the problem isn't that we're fostering a generation of delicate flowers that will crumble upon the lightest weight (well, they certainly won't achieve much with that mindset), however...

What really happens is that they're used to get things given if they complain enough, I bet there is more of a bunch of them that actually doesn't believe in anything but will espouse these views just to get recognition, privileges, and the best of all, approval.

The great struggle of the young mind is to be accepted and having its behaviour approved of, as such, they turn into two different behaviours, obedience, when they seek the approval of their elders, or rebellion when they seek the approval of their peers, lately the latter is what has given the most fruits to them, because honestly, the former isn't going to get something new out of the old guys, now would it?

Case in point, about a generation ago, our fathers (or so I assume) were educated through the word and belt, and so were educated their fathers and so on, but, today this use has fallen, the reason why this happened I believe has its roots back when the youth rebelled against the elders, in the (in)famous '68, when authoritarian discipline went completely out of fashion.
This needn't be a judgement on how we educate the children, but indeed, this was a complete break from the past.

And so, since that movement beared its fruits, young people learned that they could indeed obtain their goals if they were to fight for them, and, I shall always remember how my professor was so proud to have fought to obtain the right as an high school student to have assemblies.

Well, this is what we've come to now, students protesting is normal now, the problem is, what are they protesting about?
It reminds me of how I am one of the ringleaders of student protests, with my motto: "WE SHALL STUDY TOMORROW BROTHERS!", always grasping at straws to incite the mass of my peers when they groan about something.
And I can't believe I'm the only one that would incite protests just to get a day of relax, because that was usually the result of these charades.
I believe that the modern students do the same, there are the idealistic ones and then there are the cynical ones that use the ideas of the formers.

As my mama says: "Some people just want to bicker with others", and I do agree with her, however, if you want to seem righteous you just can't insult people to argue with them, now can you? Unless you have an excuse that will make you seem as if you're fighting a righteous battle, defending the defenseless.

In time society at large conformed, deans made concessions, politicians made speeches, and companies gave their support, since you can't alienate a large part of the populations (ironically, if the demographic trends continue the way they do, they're going to be a small part of certain countries).

This way the bar of what is considered outrageous was raised, new standards were raised, and it became sensible to allow people to create their own enclaves where they would be protected from dissent, and create the infamous hate speech laws, effectively making a lexicon that allows you to deny the opponent a voice should they pronounce the satanic verses contained in it.
And that is what I think made it famous, the possibility of being right without even have to arguing, you are a defective human if you hold any politically incorrect views, as such your proposals can't work, because they are meant only for your small mind.

And that's what you see in the political discourse of today, entire parties are brushed off and demonized on the accounts of racism, homophobia or being pro-life, since some policies may give a semblance of endorsing one of these views.
It's not a surprise that my peers would prefer Clinton over Trump only on claims of racism, or that negotiating better immigration policies is a bad idea because, racism.
What I find funny is when the opposite force comes back at them, the outrageous views are now returning to the mainstream, and they are being accepted by a now exhausted population, and we're seeing a portion of this youth idolising authoritarian regimes, a fulgid success of sensitivity for sure.
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.

ANTUDO

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted October 04, 2016 07:54 PM

Well said and nicely explained Neraus....imvho. QP in my book.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted October 04, 2016 08:00 PM
Edited by frostysh at 20:44, 04 Oct 2016.

kipshasz -
Quote:
I compared the current situation in Ukraine with the one in Somalia. you know, the general stuff. Rampant crime, corruption, impotent government. Kinda called Ukraine "The European Somalia" as well.

I have no doubts you are truly expert in the Unkraine pity crisis .

But at least particularly you are right, the Unkraine peoples and the Somalia peoples, both particularly is a victims of some global misunderstandings, imho.
Indeed, regardless of how far the peoples is located on the Earth, they have a many similar things, and the problems in their common life.

And of course all of this problem have their trace om the teenagers

Homer171, Neraus, markkur -
Quote:
What word tolerant even means nowdays is not same I read from dictionary.

I have a poor knowledge in the philosophical mumbo-jumbo about the tolerance (of course with no disrespect to the Philosophy itself), I will better make an example of the a very fun, interesting, and an action situation .
so mr/mrs Homer171, can you imagine the next situations

The holiday, you was with your family in a many fun places, your children was a very enjoyed of the all of this cool things that they have faced with their friends, you have buy a toy a for your little one, a cool toy for school, that he is a very want, and asking for it about a week. Then you have returned to the home, and have a very good food consuming, and then you have made a sleep with your wife, simultaneously creating a planes for the future of your family. . .

But something weird have woke you up at the dark night, the earthshaking it is! But you are thinking - "it is an impossible! The is no earth-shakes in the territory of your country! Perhaps it is an explosion? ?" You trying to switch on the light but there is a no electricity, you and wife moving through a garbage, at least you have reach your children and the all together, you family is going outside of the house.
There is also a lot of peoples in the outside that have bothered of what the hell have happened.
You spotted a very weird red glowing in the horizon. Your neighborhood and friend have said something to you and you are turned back for a moment . . .

Pew! The deep flash (like the deep flash in the Linkin Park song ). You cannot see anymore but the still a flash behind your eyes due to some Neurology effects, and then you realizing that you are burning like this monk . . .

"


So a what a reason, a what cause of such cool action hollywood like blockbuster situation that is a totally different from your casual, a common, and a boring life (I am sorry for a bad humor ... )

The cause is next - someone important, someone powerful guys, the very powerful guys, have forgot the meaning of the word - tolerance for a short time . . .  

There was a very fun and cool when the armies equipped with a swords, spears, and bows and so on, have a some cool looks like battles
Quote:
"It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another" - Lucretius

To start such such battle, you need to give for hte folks a reason, that will whitewash their deeds before themselves, and of course usually this reason is a total nonsense , the more nonsense, the better, the intolerance related stuff is works great .

But it is a totally different when a big modern guys starting to solve their misunderstanding in such way . . the guys have the modern devices, and technologies that can wreak a havoc, a horror , a destruction, a suffering and an annihilation that you can only imagine.  

And I have no doubts, the guys is know a price for a meaning of word - tolerance.

So my main point is next: The stuf that you have posted - is sandbox for a weak, the strong, the powerful, do not bother themselves about such nonsense as intolerance and so on.
And of course to avoid a many problems the liberal things, the democracy, the tolerance and so on must be educated from a young age.
It is a matter of normal existing of the large amount of peoples on the Earth. IMHO.

artu -
Quote:
Of course, a university is a place where ideas are supposed to clash, not some club for like-minded people to feel cozy. So, anything that is not blatantly a hate crime should be okay as long as people keep the discussions civilized.

+1 - of course the liberal stuff is not means to forbid, to deny, and to annihilate the any of  non-liberal positions! And of course there must be  a civilized way.

Zenofex -

Quote:
That's the typical behaviour for spoiled brats who rely on emotional outbursts to camouflage their inability to provide reasonable arguments. Schools, colleges and universities are institutions where one has to learn to defend his point of view with reason rather than to cry offence when someone states something "controversial". Such "snowflakes" are rare enough though, no need to put them in the spotlight.

+1, but just do not forgot a very important for the modern human population serviceability word  - the humanism, and it's meaning.  


Kayna -
Quote:
I find your thread title misleading. Moral degradation and hypersensitivity isn't the same thing.

+1, the common peoples just need for some Armageddon , Apocalypse, or OMG OMG - our teenagers sux comparing to the "good old days" and so on...
____________

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 04, 2016 08:22 PM

I'm not a fan of these safe spaces but I admit they are good in certain circumstances. It should only be used to cut obvious propaganda though, not everything.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted October 04, 2016 08:41 PM

Kayna said:
I'm not a fan of these safe spaces but I admit they are good in certain circumstances. It should only be used to cut obvious propaganda though, not everything.

If you are not the fan of the safe spaces, you can try yourself in the dangerous spaces , perhaps you will change your opinion, perhaps you will not .

Imho, 90% of the rich countries common folks life, is a ahhmmm, something like a "I am bored, I need my new Reason Datre!", and it is cool and it is normal, but in the almost cases it is have a very poor connection to the reality . . .

____________

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 04, 2016 08:43 PM

@frostysh: I fail to see any fun in your "total nonsense reply", or any particular logic for that mather. Please carry on
____________
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 04, 2016 09:33 PM

Homer171 said:
@frostysh: I fail to see any fun in your "total nonsense reply", or any particular logic for that mather. Please carry on


Don't feed the troll dude.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted October 04, 2016 09:36 PM

Any post is food though.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 04, 2016 10:14 PM

Best to ignore it completely.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted October 04, 2016 10:22 PM

But even this post could elicit a response he can respond to anything.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 05, 2016 02:36 AM
Edited by artu at 02:39, 05 Oct 2016.

markkur said:
Children and babies being given drugs is problematic to me and could in the long-run be a small part of the OP's issues but I really wanted to talk (a little) about something "likely" related;like this

An Atheist and a Christian converse about causes for the moral decline. What do you think.

Note: Because I posted the link does not mean I am in complete agreement with one or both of these guys but I do think they bring up interesting aspects that could be part of the greater issues...like Snowflakes.



Wow, Beavis & Butthead here, were so wrong about so many things on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin…

I’m already familiar with Stefan Molyneux, more than a few of his video blogs had been shared here before, his typical mistake is to select a very narrow perspective of a view, then filter it through his quite opinionated ideological stance, yet present it as “this is what the view looks like, these are empirical facts.” He is usually not slightly impartial, even about the slice of facts he is being selective about. This time, he has company who does the exact same thing and the whole conversation is kind of like:
- You are so right.
- Oh, please, you are more right.
- You are right, right, right.
- Not more than you.

They talk about TV shows presenting interracial relationships more common than they actually are and define this situation as some “cultural programming.”  A TV show not representing the demographics of a society accurately would only be valid criticism if that TV show claimed to be a work of naturalism, TV shows are clearly not that. For a producer, it’s quite a regular thing to do if you have a story involving, say, 10 characters, to pick them from various parts of the population, that way you reach to a wider base of audience and the variety of characters will create contrast which will provide more material for the stories. If you overdo it with some misplaced political correctness, it will appear synthetic, so a group with one white/one Asian/one  African/one Latino/one Indian would be a very silly way to go, but other than that, why would some people get this irritated by the amount of interracial relationships on TV getting a little more than their street life experience is beyond me.

Then, there’s the cliche anti-feminist argument of “inequality is a thing of the past, if women earn less, it’s because they have different priorities than men.” They move on to claim that so many (in reality not so many, btw) TV shows with female presidents are -again- hidden propaganda for Hillary Clinton. Maybe, they are, maybe not, but their way of concluding that (female president=Clinton propaganda) is ridiculous. There are also dozens of TV shows with male presidents, why aren’t they automatically Trump propaganda while the female ones are? So, just like sounding racist when they are trying to prove racism is a thing of the past (“with interracial couples, if the father is black, you don’t see him around” etc.), while trying to prove gender inequality is a thing of past, they manage to sound sexist.  And although there had been real progress on both issues, neither gender inequality nor racism are “historical” problems, they still exist to a degree, whether some groups exploit the progress achieved is another issue.

Then, they move to family values and start bickering about how new TV shows undermine these values and how they make all the people afraid to get married and everybody turning into hedonistic sex slaves etc and how religious people are always presented as dull and boring while modern types are hip and cool. Somewhere along the line, the evangelist one even says something like “Sex and the City was the most evil thing ever.” First of all, as that English proverb I adore so much goes, you can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Why would some conservative Christian wish to be presented as a “cool and hip” character on TV? And it’s not true anyway, as someone who follows a lot of American TV shows, I can say that an overwhelming majority of them revolves around a family, they might not be the clean-cut, ideal family of the 1950’s shows, most characters are anti-heroes now but that’s just the polish of it and the main theme is usually how they function as a family to overcome their troubles. Even the “evil” Sex and the City finalised with 3 of the 4 women ending up  with their dream guys and getting married. There are still very few Godless main characters on TV in general, in times of crisis or losing loved ones, most TV characters confide in God, mostly with direct Christian references. Of course, if by Christian, what they mean is “born-again evangelical from Bible-Belt,” yes, those types are criticised often because they are really behind times in most of the cases. If you claim the world is 6000 years old or doctors who perform abortion are the equivalent of axe murderers or tornadoes are a punishment for homosexuality, somebody will make fun of you on TV, better get used to it. And unfortunately, such people are not cherry-picked extreme examples. Stefan Molyneux says he can’t live anywhere but in the Western Civilization, well, by that civilization’s standards, the U.S. is STILL a very pious and conservative country, especially in some regions. And while religion based or not, conservatism is quite universal all over the world, the progressives made the main difference in the civilization he prefers, so I'd suggest giving more credit to them.  

But their biggest fallacy is to talk as if there are two kinds of people, the ones who marry their high school sweethearts and the ones whose life are a series of shallow sex parties, hunting one one-night-stand after another. Just because someone doesn’t think the institution of marriage isn’t something very crucial, that doesn't mean they can’t have meaningful, long-term relationships. Up until a century ago, extreme majority of people got married before they were even 20, almost as if it was part of a job description. That’s not how things are now and there’s nothing wrong with having your fair amount of relationships if you haven’t found someone you feel devoted to. That doesn’t necessarily mean you are a nymphomaniac or suffering from some playboy syndrome. Not so long ago, to kiss before getting married was also a taboo (hence, “you may now kiss the bride”), I would assume majority of even the most conservative Americans don’t think like that anymore (here, some conservative Muslims do), now imagine your grand grandfather accusing you of trying to kiss everybody you meet just because you see nothing wrong with kissing your girlfriend out of wedlock and you can have an idea of how all this “hedonistic slaves pushing away deeper love” talk sound to a person who is not conservative about sex.

I had like a dozen more objections but they got lost along the way since I couldn’t keep up disagreeing with them.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted October 07, 2016 01:38 AM

artu said:
since I couldn’t keep up disagreeing with them.


Artu, if you really want to talk with me, please don't do walls of text like that, as if I wrote the entire content within a shared link. I said "I did not agree with either of them about everything". I thought maybe...just maybe...something here or there "might be" (or not) interesting to discuss one at a time but I'm not advocating anything atm and I am not going to defend everything in a long video.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 07, 2016 02:42 AM

So? Isn't it clear that I'm talking about their opinions, not yours. Once you put the video here, it's for anybody to watch and comment on. I mean, they are not the mafia, they wont cut your shaking hand for making the introduction.

The post got indeed longer than I, myself expected. But so did the video and I guess, it was either a long post or something nobody could understand without watching the whole thing.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted October 07, 2016 04:50 AM

Artu, just to be sure...I was not criticizing you at all my friend especially your passion or interests, it's just that I am limited and can only really discuss lots of things when I think a topic very important. i.e. It took me a couple of months to write my 5 part article - my spine is that bad and getting a little worse lately.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted October 19, 2016 06:24 PM

“cultural programming”

Let's you and I pick up that one Artu.

I agree to some degree that their is some nasty impacts on society we're I may agree or not is for me the "intent" is cannot be easily known. i.e. I am Christian and though I try to communicate with others in neutral fashion...some of "me" may seep through.

I think that might be the case with many things we bump into that make us sick. No matter the topic.

However, though I think it is possible for someone to write and have a purpose or someone can add without realizing I blame another cause for the culture-wars and I will call it "Shock".

Years ago I used to think that Hollywood of the past was squeaky clean but now that I've watched movies from the 20's onwards as an adult what I see as a constant thread is "lowering the public-morale bar".

On this timeline you can follow the trail of the seduction of Shock. First it was "flirting & eyeing, married or not. Rudolf Valentino took the hearts of women by storm. Then decades of "affairs & betrayals". Meanwhile during all this time the advent of the STAR. Manufactured STARS - mostly sexy women and some men and as time marches on these commodities are more and more undressed., to the point now Sex has to be in everything. Funny how most people do not stop to realize that they are what used to be called "peeping-toms."  But hey! It's not real life right? And they forget that they are real-life.

I came from not only a broken home but one that blasted all family entirely away from our young lives. The three of us boys grew up to be decent men by the time-honored standards. Today I realize it was because we were seeing role models that were damn good and not entirely by our glorious virtue. Our Dad was out chasing-tail and leaving things to me but we were all learning what a caring Father should be.

What followed good role models? Kids were portrayed as smarter than their parents and usually were smartasses to boot. A freakin' parent was no one to ask anything. Today neither are Grandparents.

Today anything goes and the more away from old societal standards the better because that is and what has always made...Shock.    


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 19, 2016 09:25 PM

Well, for one thing, I think it's ironic that people who are ultra-conservative about sex are as much as obsessed with it as porn addicts. The whole thing reminds me of that South Park episode where there is this exclusive pop star "for the Christians" and she keeps wearing this virginity ring symbolizing her purity, whatever that means... and in the end of the episode, the kids are like "wake up Christians, this IS selling you sex." It's never a good idea to repress sexuality, we know that especially since Freud. Sorry if Jesus wasn't around to catch up with the work but his followers also have libidos and a subconscious.

Sex is a natural part of life, if we're talking about real art with actual depth, it's only proper that a character's sexuality will be in the work just as any other aspect of his/her life. If we're talking about show-biz and entertainment, well, it's a centuries old thing to bend in sexual attraction as a selling point. Does today's world have less boundries about how much should be out in the open? Yes. Why:

The infrastructure changed. People marry much later in life, also live much longer, may get divorced along the way. They actually want to spend time and get to know each other before they marry, and of course, if they choose to marry. During all this, when they're inevitably attracted to each other, there is no reason to avoid sex when birth control is a piece of cake now. Besides, women are no longer seen as men's property, hence, their sexuality is no longer a taboo in the sense that it should be preserved for "the owner." I see all of this as progress and a good thing, not as "degeneration of public morale."

Conservative Muslims are also obsessed with sex, usually much worse than Christians actually, because of the whole "a woman shouldn't show herself to men" tradition. And it never prevents the worst rape cases or repressed fathers abusing their daughters etc.    
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted October 19, 2016 11:38 PM

As true as it is, today's society tends sometimes to hypersexualise everything, and that in my opinion, is not a healthy habit.

I mean, in the old days, a person, regardless of his/her sex, used to experience every part of one's life with each passing 'step', you experienced childhood, then pre-adolescence, then teenage years, then young adulthood, then adulthood... etc. Each with what it taught you, experiences you got in, things you learned from. And today, you may hear a 12 years old girl state : I need a man like this and with this... No sweetie, you need to do your homework and do pyjama parties with your friends, you're not at an stage where you're fixing caracteristics you would like to find in a man with whom you'd like to share you life. And unfortunately, some people keep this behaviour for the rest of their lives. All what they gossip about is love relationships, who is in love with who, who broke up with who... etc. Creating shallow people in the society, which is quiet a waste.

I think that all these 'steps' we used to pass by and through which we evolved in life tend to dissapear to the benefit of 'adulthood barking directly into preteens' life' making them think for example that sex is everything in life, which is wrong, it's just a part of it, which should be really experience at some point in one's life, in order to stay healthy. Same thing goes with the fact that if you're single at a moment of your life, you're wrong, as if it was forbidden to be single.

There are infinite ways of emancipation too, and making the most of life, be it for men or women. And personally, I really prefer seeing women getting a nobel prize rather than receiving a Miss Something prize as a sign of emancipation.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 19, 2016 11:42 PM

The obsession with sey is complete BS. I mean, what's wrong with "selling with sex" - selling with SUSPENSE isn't better or something. Because, frankly, there is no ground whatsoever to consider the interest in sex (and therefore the sbility to sell something with it) morally worse than the interest in suspense (as in crime) or actually the interest in anything.

That the skirts are getting shorter, whethér in the movies or in real life, isn't anything more despicable than less people are smoking and drinking (which is the flip side of the coin).

Look at an American family movie of the 50s, and you'll see people are asexual, more or less (they are not in the 20s to 40s) - but they smoke and drink just fine.
Now? people have sex on camera, but don't smoke or drink.

I call that progress.


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 20, 2016 12:16 AM

JJ said:
Because, frankly, there is no ground whatsoever to consider the interest in sex (and therefore the sbility to sell something with it) morally worse than the interest in suspense (as in crime) or actually the interest in anything.

While that is true, not everything has to be sexy either. I mean, when I look back in, say, the singers of the past, there are some who are also sex symbols (Elvis), some who are priorly sex symbols (Marlyin Monroe) and then, there are also some who are ugly as hell. Today, every frigging artist behave like they also have to be a super model. And it's sad to think there are some Ella Fitzgerald's out there who are not making it because they are fat.  


Also, I really hate to see movie stars from my childhood (1980's) who are around their 70's now but try to make it look like they are 40,  ending up with a bionic, emotionless face. Look at Kathrine Hepburn at Golden Pond, that's how you get old with some class.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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