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| Thread: Magic school abilities... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted April 16, 2002 02:59 PM |
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About Bone Dragons... I believe the way to get them in H3 was to put another dragon through the transformer.
You may want to try that out in H4 too. It just may work. (Haven't tested it myself yet. Seems such a waste to convert blackies and faeries to Bone Dragons.)
If you're lucky you may mayhaps get several dragons. On some screenshots I saw the transformer based the number of resulting creatures on Xp values. So one Black could possible give two Bone Dragons, provided it works at all.
Better to keep all slots full with fast creatures in your army. Then when you want to summon them, you take Water Elementals from the Creature Portal (or whatever else is available) and put that as one of your stacks.
You don't loose any elementals this way. The Xp you're entitled to accumulates over the turns when nothing is summoned so you will get several elementals in one big summon.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Flashman
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 16, 2002 03:06 PM |
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Wow I didn't know that.
Thanks for that little gem 
/Flash
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 16, 2002 03:25 PM |
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Quote:
I beg to differ, lower level summoming is usefull early on when every level 1/2 creature counts in the resource race.
It isn't great but it isn't bad either.
I suppose you're right. But in the long run I like to ditch those weakling units, and preferrably as early as possible.
Quote:
If you're lucky you may mayhaps get several dragons. On some screenshots I saw the transformer based the number of resulting creatures on Xp values. So one Black could possible give two Bone Dragons, provided it works at all.
Sort of defies logic, but I guess it's worth considering. I wouldn't do it though.. I believe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so I'd rather have one good unit with extra HP than two weaker units. It will be more durable for one thing.
Quote:
Better to keep all slots full with fast creatures in your army. Then when you want to summon them, you take Water Elementals from the Creature Portal (or whatever else is available) and put that as one of your stacks.
You don't loose any elementals this way. The Xp you're entitled to accumulates over the turns when nothing is summoned so you will get several elementals in one big summon.
I didn't know that either.. good tip! I wish you could CHOOSE which units you want summoned though.. And I wish Waspworts were an option.
And what is so good about Water Elementals? I like Fire elementals better. Statistically they are superior and can shoot. I guess casting makes up for it, but it's nice to have shooters with 50 HP.
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Flashman
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 16, 2002 03:35 PM |
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They are much better because they deal more damage (Ice bolt) and there is no such thing as retaliation vs. spells nor any range penalty and a well timed fatigue can save the day and....err I think that's it .
I like the fire elemental graphic better though :
/Flash
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undead_wolf_...
Adventuring Hero
Undead Wolf Wrangler
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posted April 16, 2002 07:50 PM |
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Don't forget...water elems can also cast quicksand which can be huge against walkers...
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"where's a damn werewolf when you need one?"
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Shepicker
Hired Hero
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posted September 27, 2003 08:39 PM |
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them Bonies
Hi there
If you were to put any 3rd or 4th level creature into the transformer you would only get the same amount of ghosts therefor: 10 Blackies(80 k + 40 S) would transform into 10 Ghosts( a whole lot less).It wolud be nice to have a bit of a homogen alignment when playing Necropolis, but that overpower it only further.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted September 28, 2003 02:52 AM |
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Actually 10 blackies would transfrom into 10 boners
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted September 28, 2003 05:42 AM |
bonus applied. |
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What I believe about the special magic schools...
Life's resurrection, in my opinion, is one of the best special magic skills avaliable. If you happen to suffer some heavy losses during a battle this skill can revive half of what you lose back at GM level, therefore reducing your casualty count by a considerable amount. Believe me, this skill saved me a few times before (although it's nice not to lose any, and life magic is very potent at protecting your troops), and every life hero should consider it if they can.
Death's Necromancy is a very strong skill once you get to a high level (around level 20) and at Grandmaster level (the other four levels are pretty mediocre), due to the fact that you can get huge stacks of vampires however, this skill only shines if you continually fight large stacks of living creatues (undead and mechanical/elementals don't count) and in turn not lose your hero otherwise you've wasted your time. Also, GM necromancy dosen't guarantee you vampires either. If you fight someone much weaker than you all you will get is a few mediocre ghosts, which are nothing but cannon fodder.
Nature's Summoning is frequently underestimated by many. Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT the worst skill in the game. Sure at Basic and Advanced it's a little weak (although those goofy leprechauns saved me a few times by casting fortune[helps you resist damage]) but when you get to grandmaster level you can churn out an incredible army of elementals within weeks! Simply fill up your army slots with various creatures and one elemental and you will get around 4 of that elementals a week! Water elementals work best for this, but fire elementals ain't that bad, either. Believe me, I created a nightmare of water elementals when I did this, and they decimated anything in their path. See, that wasn't worthless at all, was it?
Chaos' Sorcery is one of the stronger skills at the beginning and is extremely helpful if you want to clear a few mine guards early on (provided that you have at least Expert Chaos magic and either lightning or Fire Bolt) but near the end it becomes rather pitiful due to the fact that a super sorceror can't keep up with the growth rate of neutral stacks and enemy creature armies (unless he is of a really high level and has some damage-enhancing artifacts). However, this also works on non-chaos spells, so it is far from useless.
Order's charm has got to be one of the most worthless skills in the game. The concept is cool because you get to steal some of the opposite troops even from enemy armies provided that you are stronger than they are but most of the time all you get is usually a very tiny amount of lowly creatures, usually of the opposite alignment. Even at GM level this skill is still worthless, most of the time you'd be refusing to accept the converted creatures and you'd be fighting them anyway at the end, and more experience to invest in other skills is better than investing in/using this skill.
There's my opinion on the skills.
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No one knows my true nature here...
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Shepicker
Hired Hero
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posted September 28, 2003 11:03 PM |
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You are right Dingo. I should have tested it first and then write whatever *bows my head in shame of the ignorance*
No but seriously the message on the transformer board was 1+2 level become skeletons, 3+4 become ghosts. Now i did a bit of testing and Blackies become Boners, not sure about the fairy dragons;any other level four creature becomes a vamp, level 3 creatures become ghosts. Erronous messaging just like when u get GM necromancy it`s not posted anywhere that u get vamps. I got the german version so that could be it or it simply is sugar made by 3do.
And by the way Necromancy rocks: it has same presets regarding creatures like non elemental, non mechanical or undead but them extra vamps per battle make it quite attractive.
Summoning works fine but if u want to collect the points for summoning elementals and in big numbers at once u should only have level 3 non elemental or and level 4.I remember the Elwin scenarios where I had no elementals but elves and others and my elves grew in numbers daily so i guess the summoning takes then the next best creature with a smaller level than 3.
If you like to play haven i guess Resurection is good.But with nature you can cast first strike on the griffin and the dragon strength,hydra aswell witth first strike and cat reflexes, devils or boners with vampiric touch and for order you have illusions or Hypnotise or berserk, so if i learn life magic as another magic skill i do not put any points in it.
Charm is good for hit and run: if you ever have a mage with town portal and traveling alone, attack and teleport back home. thwe opponent only loses creatures.
Sorcery works for me cause i also applies with any magic like holy word, poison, plague, icebolt, summoning spells, healing spells undead resurections and so on. I like to play with magical hero so sorcery is my second after necro
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted October 15, 2003 11:21 AM |
bonus applied. |
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To begin with the skill most of you don't seem to like, the Charm skill, it must be said that this skill usually is best on large maps, where you can develop it. It's also best if you play as Death, because this will provide you with constant fodder for your Undead Transformer. It can also be useful, as some of you has pointed out, if you get a "Week of the xxx" or if the map has many creatures of your alignement. Many ifs...
Then Summoning. I was once of the mind that this was the best skill in the game, since it's not guaranteed that you'd, as a haevy weight Necromancer, meet enemy stacks to fight every day. It is, however sure that yoo'll get elementals every day, no matter which elemental you make room for. (As for that, I usually go for the Airs, or sometimes the Fires, because though the Ice Bolt of the Waters deals much damage, they are SLOW! And though firepower can be the key to victory, speed is usually more important, since if you're weaker than your opponent in might (which is mainly the case with Nature, and in Campaigns), Yuo need to get away quickly. The same applies for Earths, who, in addition to being slow on the adventure map, also has 1 in combat speed.)
Necromany comes to its rights on maps with lots of neutral creatures. If you start as a Necromancer, you can get GM Necromancy before you reach level 10 (it only requires Expert Death Magic, so if you strive to get it, and only choose skills that leads to it, you can be there pretty quickly). However, this skill requires that there are neutral creature stacks on the map. Preferably lots of them, to make it worth the worry.
Also, it's not so great in low levels. Don't misunderstand me, it's nothing wrong with Skellies (wonderful cannon fodder, and large stacks of them can take large bites of your enemy's stacks, and eat the retaliations, but that's about it. These creaures are weak, nontheless) or Ghosts (the Aging ability is useful. The creature is weak. Cerebi is much better), but it's not neccesarily good enough.
Btw, this applies to the low level Summons, as well.
Ressurection is useful, though it has a slight set-back: You need to loose troops to gain from it, and with Life, you rarely loose much (esp. not against walkers), because of all the splendid shooters and protective spells. But if you have casualties, it's not bad to get some of them back.
Sorcery is a very useful skill, and in it self reason enough to strive for Chaos Magic. This is why:
Order: The skill bossts your Illutions and the Ice Bolt and Magic Fist.
Life: The kill undead-spells are boosted. And the healing spells (though why they bother to make it heal more than 250 hp, is more than i can comprehend... But that's a different story.)
Chaos: Obvious. It boosts your DD spells to even higher levels.
Death: Animate, Raise, Poison, Plague. All spells are boosted by Sorcery. Neat.
Nature: This is where Sorcery really comes to it's right. The Summoning spells are doubled if you get GM Sorcery. And if you have a high level of demonology as well, the Demon Summons gets better as well. Neater.
Phew. My longest post this far. Hope I didn't forget anything....
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted October 30, 2003 09:50 AM |
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"And the Preserve units themselves are not second rate either."
I'll agree with that comment. They're not the best, that is certain, but they do have some potency, especially in the 3rd and 4th levels. I think they lack slightly in the 1st and 2nd levels. It previously used to be the area they excelled in.
Funny because I think it's the level 1's and 2's (sprite, wolf, leprechaun, elf, tiger, satyr) where nature really shines.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted November 11, 2003 12:08 PM |
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The tigers, the elves and the sprites are great, but the wolves are good for nothing but dying.
But someone's gotta do that, too...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted November 11, 2003 02:05 PM |
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Wolves and sprites are good for nothing but dying?
You must be joking or we play a different game.
You must prevent them of being hit. That1s all. They do much damage, especially the wolves. Just like Berserkers, only difference that you can control them so that they won't die.
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Yes, I play the game only on the forums.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted November 12, 2003 10:26 AM |
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I didn't mention the Sprites, they don't loose much (their No Retaliation).
But the Wolves are just canon fodder. Use two heroes and exchange the wolves with creatures from your Summoning Portal (if you have it) instead. Way better.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted November 12, 2003 12:34 PM |
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??
You start with wolves doing much damage. They are not cannon fodder. I have told it before, telling again - prevent them from being hit.
Starting with 40 Wolves doing 2*(80-120) damage is just great. You can take on level 2's early, maybe even level 3's.
As for later in the game, you won't use level 1's, level2's and level 3's so that won't matter.
No, I won't use my summoning portal, it's exclusively for Mantises.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted November 13, 2003 09:56 AM |
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Mantises?
Why would you churn out mantises in your summoning portal when you only get one mantis a week? That's too few a week for a dwelling which can churn out nine water elementals a week!
I almost always use water elementals for my creature portal, I stack them up, summon them and then blast my enemy apart! Water Elementals rock (except against black dragons).
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No one knows my true nature here...
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted November 13, 2003 11:57 AM |
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Quote:
??
You start with wolves doing much damage. They are not cannon fodder. I have told it before, telling again - prevent them from being hit.
Starting with 40 Wolves doing 2*(80-120) damage is just great. You can take on level 2's early, maybe even level 3's.
As for later in the game, you won't use level 1's, level2's and level 3's so that won't matter.
No, I won't use my summoning portal, it's exclusively for Mantises.
So, how do you "prevent them from being hit"?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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LordZXZX
Famous Hero
Overfished
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posted November 15, 2003 04:30 PM |
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Quote:
So, how do you "prevent them from being hit"?
Normally there are some useless leprechauns and satyrs(gained via summoning) to take retaliation so your wolves can finish them off. Wolves also benefit greatly from snake strike. Wolves, in my opinion should be used conservatively and only attack creatures who already has retaliated.
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ironikinit
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 15, 2003 05:04 PM |
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A good reason to use mantis over water elemental is that the mantis has excellent map speed and the water elemental can slow you down.
Summoned creatures are a good way to conserve wolves, as ZXZX said, another way is to split them into stacks and sacrifice a single wolf to take retaliation. Make the biggest stack the farthest on the right so it moves after the singles.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted November 17, 2003 04:45 PM |
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Sprites or wolves - I only use them on week 1, when I do not have Mantis yet, against neutral stacks. All you have to do is being a bit careful and you can prevent them from being hit. Use summonings and sacrificial stacks to draw fire from them, that's all.
Mantis vs Water Elementals - well, 1 mantis is much better than 9 WE's, also they are faster on the overland map. Binding is a very good thing.
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