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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: reporting from the rabbit hole
Thread: reporting from the rabbit hole This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
AlHazin
AlHazin


Supreme Hero
Erwin freed Tibet!
posted November 24, 2016 07:55 AM

Still don't remember what I was going to troll yesterday.

You know Stevie sometimes you really feel living out of your body, and that's why I considered that our true consciousness resides out of the body as well as inside it. You are not your brain to say it clearly, you more than it + a nerv system. And that's why you can't upload your consciousness in the internet to live after your life like the evil in SAO.
Fred's experience did that experience but I don't advise trying to find solutions that way cause it's in another plane, not the real one, although there's a connection. So he chemically experienced others do it with religious trances for example. Like the derviches.
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A felt change of consciousness - Markkur

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Blizzardman
Blizzardman


Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
posted November 24, 2016 07:57 AM
Edited by Blizzardman at 08:01, 24 Nov 2016.

Considering my most 'out of world' experience was passing out on a hot day,  
I think it's safe to say that I haven't I don't even have (remembered) dreams except on very rare occasions. Really good sleeper though. Out like a light in under 5 minutes and up with a spring.
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fred79
fred79


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Undefeatable Hero
Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted November 24, 2016 08:37 AM

@ blizz: i feel bad for people like you. living your whole lives in a concentrated little box; never stepping foot outside of it. you don't know what you're missing. when i meet people like you and we get to talking, it's like i'm looking at an animal that doesn't know it's in a cage, and doesn't see the other animals running free in the wild. it's like you're wear those blinders they put on horses. you're missing out on a whole other world, man.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted November 24, 2016 09:54 AM

You know fred a lot of people are capable of opening their minds and connect without taking drugs. You are wrong if you think anyone not choosing to destroy their brain cells and deteriorate their body in order to gain a few shortcuts is trapped in a cage.
Taking drugs is usually a cry for help more than anything, not saying it can't be a good experience, but you seem fast to, ironically, put people in boxes here.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 24, 2016 10:02 AM

It's not for everyone, especially people who tend to be control freaks, as drugs make you lose control over your body, your thoughts, your actions.

That being said, it's remarkable how some of these experiences are pretty close to what people describe as near-death experiences.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted November 24, 2016 10:03 AM

Or in cages Tbh I would be interested in seeing how a natural hallucinogen works, say a mushroom, but never happened to try any. But I am more interested in expanding my mind out of personal effort, mental or physical. I treat every experience as a chance to learn even if it doesn't initially look the case.
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Galaad
Galaad


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posted November 24, 2016 10:08 AM

Maurice said:
drugs make you lose control over your body, your thoughts, your actions.


That is not true, unless you overdose.

Elvin said:
Or in cages Tbh I would be interested in seeing how a natural hallucinogen works, say a mushroom, but never happened to try any.


If you ever try any, word of advice: take it outdoors (in the wild), with a good friend you can trust and who already has experience with it.
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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted November 24, 2016 10:16 AM

Maurice said:
That being said, it's remarkable how some of these experiences are pretty close to what people describe as near-death experiences.

Well, it's the same receptors that are under irregular conditions. One should really look at it as a matter of perception rather than connection. When you have the munchies, you don't connect to new tastes that exist in another realm, do you, the existing ones are amplified to a point where they feel unlike before. This is similar, only it has also an abstract aspect which can lead you to contemplate and interpret things differently, less egocentric usually, like the George Harrison song, Within You, Without You, life flows within you or without you.
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fred79
fred79


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posted November 24, 2016 10:33 AM
Edited by fred79 at 10:35, 24 Nov 2016.

Galaad said:
You know fred a lot of people are capable of opening their minds and connect without taking drugs. You are wrong if you think anyone not choosing to destroy their brain cells and deteriorate their body in order to gain a few shortcuts is trapped in a cage.
Taking drugs is usually a cry for help more than anything, not saying it can't be a good experience, but you seem fast to, ironically, put people in boxes here.


the only other way i know of people opening their minds in the way i'm speaking, is through meditation. most people don't pay attention to the the world around them enough to see what you can see by taking a hallucinogenic shortcut. as i have said, i don't have the discipline(or the time, really) to use meditation in achieving what hallucinogens can do in 1-2 hours. i've tried expanding my mind through my dreams, and i have been able to do some stuff that way(overcoming nightmares, battling fears, learning how to control dreams and thus, my subconscious mind). i have tried meditation, but it only got me so far(i was able to achieve solidity of self, whereas before i was like shattered glass, metaphorically speaking). i have tried just about every way i know of, to expand my mind, and to further push my own boundaries, mentally. while some people focus on their body+mind(through discipline or exercise), i focus almost primarily on my mind. reading only does so much.

when people demonize hallucinogens, and are hesitant to take them(or are fearful of them) because of so many bullsnow horror stories/info perpetuated by authority figures and their ilk(who do not WANT people to open their minds, and thus stop being easily controllable in order to be submissive and get their work done FOR them while getting PAID to do it), i find it hard to believe that close-minded people are not just automatons(or, "mentally-caged people"); readily absorbing and assimilating all the nonsense that those same people who want control over them, want instilled in the everyday consumer.

to me, people who shy away from hallucinogens, are bound to their cage by their own making. simply because they believe the bullsnow that authority figures surround the stuff with.

think about it like this: if you, as a consumer, are willing to take a drug prescribed by the authorities or their ilk, that makes you more docile or productive(read: submissive), while at the same time shying away from a drug that will open your mind; then you are, indeed, a caged animal. there is no other way to put it.

you talk about destroying brain cells and deteriorating the body, and yet, countless people who are afraid of hallucinogens(because they accept what they're told about it by people other than those who ingest them), drink alcohol in harmful quantities, and watch t.v. or surf the internet in harmful doses(especially considering what they watch to keep them entertained).

do you not see what i'm getting at?



edit: fixed a misspelling.

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Elvin
Elvin


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Rejuvenation process
posted November 24, 2016 10:37 AM

People suck at moderation and getting their facts straight, that's for sure.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 24, 2016 10:48 AM
Edited by Maurice at 10:48, 24 Nov 2016.

Galaad said:
That is not true, unless you overdose.


Enlighten me please, as hallucinogenics induce experiences on various of your senses that aren't real. It makes it harder to distinguish between what's real and what's not and hence, you gradually lose control of what you're doing (or capable of doing). Note that this includes forming coherent thoughts.
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fred79
fred79


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Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted November 24, 2016 11:06 AM

Maurice said:
Enlighten me please, as hallucinogenics induce experiences on various of your senses that aren't real. It makes it harder to distinguish between what's real and what's not and hence, you gradually lose control of what you're doing (or capable of doing).


i have never lost control of myself on hallucinogens. the people who do, don't have a strong enough mind. for instance, the very first time i took acid, i started having a bad trip; because it opens up your subconscious(and i had a lot of pain in there at the time). but then i thought, "no, snow that. i'm going to enjoy myself and not waste this experience". and immediately, i started enjoying myself. even when i've taken 6 doses at once, i was still in control. last time i tripped, in the experience i wrote about here, my cousin wanted to meet some stranger at night relatively far from where he lived, in order to make an expensive purchase(dirt bike parts). normally when tripping on acid, i wouldn't go outside, since when i'm tripping i more enjoy myself indoors(also because i feel vulnerable when taking acid, because my subconscious is exposed). i went with him, even though i knew it could amount to a dangerous situation. i was tripping hard, and i was still able to control myself. i didn't panic, or have a bad trip because of it. i was able to step outside my comfort zone just fine(comfort is important when you're on acid, since your subconscious is made vulnerable. but that doesn't mean you're not in control of yourself). i'm sure i could do anything i put my mind to, within the realm of physics. and the reason why, is because i'm always expanding my mind, and am thus expanding what i am capable of.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2016 11:13 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:24, 24 Nov 2016.

One of the reasons people should stay away from drugs, namelly hallucinogens, is that tend to see the world with britter colours.
I know a guy that teaches "meditation" using alterated states of conscienciousness, he lives in America but I have no idea where in America, his name is Wilbert Alix. Look for him or someone alike if you want to make a connection between your 'visions' and a superior state of understanding, there is a reason why those trips are normally "guided".

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fred79
fred79


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Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted November 24, 2016 11:26 AM

bloodsucker said:
there is a reason why those trips are normally "guided".


you mean, controlled? no thank you. the last time i even HEARD about someone "guiding" a person's trip, was when they guided them to kill some people. i think they were called "the manson family". and we all know how they turned out.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2016 11:39 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:39, 24 Nov 2016.

fred79 said:
i feel bad for people like you. living your whole lives in a concentrated little box;

Well, (in my late fourties) I feel bad for all the people who tried a "connection" using drugs as a facilitator but never jumped from an airplane or surfed a (deadly) wave. For me, the most interresting 'revelations' had to do with those near death experiences and not mushrooms or acid, that I also tried but for recreative purposes.  

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted November 24, 2016 12:01 PM

I don't think a near-death experience, in the sense that's been mentioned here is doing dangerous sports or dodging a bullet etc. They are the ones when your heart stops for a while, then they resuscitate you and so on...
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fred79
fred79


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Undefeatable Hero
Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted November 24, 2016 12:02 PM
Edited by fred79 at 12:17, 24 Nov 2016.

bloodsucker said:
I feel bad for all the people who tried a "connection" using drugs as a facilitator but never jumped from an airplane or surfed a (deadly) wave. For me, the most interresting 'revelations' had to do with those near death experiences and not mushrooms or acid, that I also tried but for recreative purposes.  


i've done that, too.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2016 12:46 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:14, 24 Nov 2016.

fred79 said:
"snow you if you think you're ever gonna make me kill myself".

Yeah, that was my kind of feellings too. The first time I buggie-jumped (my first everything and I was thirty) I worked for the entire weekend preparing an entire semester of classes I was guiving and monday I went to my boss's office and came out with a 40% raize. The feeling of accomplishment and the adernaline made many things possible.
It was only after I got really good at risking my life for that rush that I felt the need to start with active meditations (Osho), Yoga and Kung Fu (and my experiences with acid were in my early twenties) but I feel like meditation, with the right background and suport, is a more trustfull way to acchive enlightment then unguided use of substances. Their good to have fun with but I seriously doubt of any 'revelations' one can get from that.

Artu said:
I don't think a near-death experience, in the sense that's been mentioned here is doing dangerous sports or dodging a bullet etc. They are the ones when your heart stops for a while, then they resuscitate you and so on...

I don't have any of those in my curricullum but a free fall used to immediatly put me in a state I'm rarely able to acchive after years of efforts with meditation, that's why I refer them here. It's a "door of perception" (it induces an alterate state of conscienciousness) and for me the one I felt was giving me the most complete sense of belonging.
I also think this has only to do with chemicals in my brain but it's a way to get rid of the trap of self perception.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted November 24, 2016 01:07 PM
Edited by fred79 at 20:29, 25 Nov 2016.

bloodsucker said:
...unguided use of substances. Their good to have fun with but I seriously doubt of any 'revelations' one can get from that.


i've learned something new on every trip i've taken, with every hallucinogen. if you remember, acid was used by the u.s. government(lsd-25), because they were experimenting with mind control. meaning, you are much more susceptible to input while under it's influence. they thought it wasn't useful, since people realized they could(and was more likely to) input whatever they learned through it. once they realized that someone under the influence of lsd had more power over the trip than they did, they dropped the idea of using lsd to control people(and have since moved on to much more intricate and effective ways of controlling the masses). they made lsd illegal, because it was an empowerment drug, which they are obviously against the idea of. they don't want a substance to be legal, that enlightens the user to a perception where their rules/influence no longer apply.

unguided use of hallucinogens, is the BEST use of them. because it empowers the user to learn whatever they wish to learn(or whatever knowledge they allow in with their "walls" now down, and their eyes "open"). by not guiding your mind under it's influence, you are open to whatever knowledge you receive from it; in an unbiased fashion. meaning, you allow yourself to learn things like what i did; which you would otherwise write off as just another hallucination, instead of an actual vision. it is because you are unguided, that you are open to new and otherwise difficult to attain/absorb ideas/experiences.


edit: changed a sentence to make it factual, as i was mistaken as to where lsd was first invented(a swiss scientist). it was the u.s. government who then used it later to see if it would work for their early mind-control experimentations.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted November 24, 2016 02:47 PM

fred79 said:
you talk about destroying brain cells and deteriorating the body, and yet, countless people who are afraid of hallucinogens(because they accept what they're told about it by people other than those who ingest them), drink alcohol in harmful quantities, and watch t.v. or surf the internet in harmful doses(especially considering what they watch to keep them entertained).


Well like I said elsewhere alcohol is a drug too, it just takes longer to kill you.
Yes I see where you getting at but it's not like acid trips are the only way out of the impact a corrupted system may or may not have on your life. You're a creative, you know how things are going well when passionate work comes to fruition don't you?

Maurice said:
Enlighten me please, as hallucinogenics induce experiences on various of your senses that aren't real. It makes it harder to distinguish between what's real and what's not and hence, you gradually lose control of what you're doing (or capable of doing). Note that this includes forming coherent thoughts.


What drugs do is shooting into your brain tons of dopamine burning consequent amount of cells in the process (and also attacking your organs). The fact it alters your senses does not make it harder to distinguish what's real and what's not, you see a dragon or walls breathing you know it's because you're tripping. You are not going to lose control over this, unless you took a dose that you can't handle, otherwise, you're on the contrary exceptionally sharp and focused, and perfectly aware of what's going on around you.
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