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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Can we now say H7 is the worst heroes ever?
Thread: Can we now say H7 is the worst heroes ever? This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


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posted January 10, 2017 10:15 PM

artu said:
So if one's hooked on the fairy tale style of H2, the visual style of H5 is even a step further from the moderate realism of H3:




Which part of a crystal dragon is moderate realism to you again?
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 10, 2017 10:19 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 22:20, 10 Jan 2017.

@artu: This is a crystal dragon, so it had to look 'crystallic' and I think the artist did a fairly good job considering how difficult that is. Also a static screen tells only a small part of the story, since it is beautifully animated and has much better sound effects than the H3 dragons.

Overall this is too me, a much more enjoyable creature than the pathetic small H3 titans.
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


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Age of erwins is over
posted January 10, 2017 10:22 PM

Robots? Space? 3D? Perfect moment to repost this

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 10, 2017 10:25 PM

H3 graphics are realist compared to H2, but it's indeed moderate, it does not damage the medieval feel of the game, even in the case of the crystal dragon, it blends in. H5 creatures on the other hand, are so garish and so hyper-digital, they stand in the way of that medieval fantasy vibe.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted January 10, 2017 10:42 PM

For me the realism is in the detail. When you put both dragons same size -as seen in default battle view, the H3 one looks like a dragon, the H5 one could be as well a worm from Dune. Or a tsetse fly on steroids. Or a whatever bizarre creature.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted January 10, 2017 10:43 PM

Nah.

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Stevie
Stevie


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posted January 10, 2017 10:46 PM

Not in a million years, lol.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Famous Hero
Tutto possibile
posted January 10, 2017 10:57 PM

And that's how ubi rules over the fans.
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verriker
verriker


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Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted January 10, 2017 11:31 PM
Edited by verriker at 23:33, 10 Jan 2017.

one of the other reasons why I disagree with the style change of H5 is the transition to 3D in general,

it's all well and good to radically shake everything up if it means otherwise you're just iterating on the same thing (H7 failed here, it is a repeat of H6 and is thus very boring visually),
however if doing a big transition to the next dimension, I basically want the same or similar style of world converted into that new dimension rather than a change of art direction as well, I think it can serve you well to start off faithfully with a closer translation of the former game and then do what you want in sequels lol

we never really got to enjoy the beautiful H2 or H3 style creatures and designs in an actual 3D world, we just got some weird, garish and unsatisfying Erwinized substitutes in their place, I mean for example I still want to control a classic, heraldic, badass style Black Dragon of H2 and H3 in a 3D environment, but those things in H5 and H6 aren't that IMO, they are just very over-fantastical and loosely adapted analogues of it, exactly like you would expect from a bad reboot lol

if they only did a more recognisable 3D game first, rather than totally deny the existing style and move on in a big hurry, I would be happier for Erwin to then go on to do what he wants and make sequels which are anime, Warcraft, Warhammer, Pokemon or whatever he's playing at the time in future lol

also if you will look at the Mario games or the Final Fantasy games for example, there are a lot of characters and visuals which are basically unaltered after 30 years and keep a similar design, stay recognisable and build up into an iconic element which gives the series an identity (like Mario himself or the bombs and the flans and stuff) lol

as we know Ubisoft doesn't know what an identity or iconic means though, so if they were in charge I would expect them to make Mario twice as chunky, change his face and clothes and basic color palette, give him exaggerated handlebar moustache and make him gritty and odd, or basically turn him into this lol
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted January 11, 2017 12:37 AM

verriker said:
one of the other reasons why I disagree with the style change of H5 is the transition to 3D in general,

*Cringes awkwardly*
Please, not that excuse for a point. Bit like, "they went MS instead of Mac".

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verriker
verriker


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Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted January 11, 2017 12:48 AM

JollyJoker said:
*Cringes awkwardly*
Please, not that excuse for a point. Bit like, "they went MS instead of Mac".


nah lol
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Galaad
Galaad


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Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 10:16 AM
Edited by Galaad at 10:39, 11 Jan 2017.

magnomagus said:
Oh come on galaad:


Both screens have some brown in them is as far as I can relate.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


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Tutto possibile
posted January 11, 2017 10:50 AM
Edited by AlHazin at 10:53, 11 Jan 2017.

Well now listen, there were in H5 some great features that outdid H3, mostly in game-play department, the ATB is a good example of that, as is the skill-wheel that gave a new blow to the game. That makes H5 in some ways better than H3, but one must admit that globally it's H3 that surpasses H5 making the former a better game generally speaking. And yeah one of the domains it was better in are graphics. To say that graphics are good or bad -which is a totally relative speech, you rely on what the majority thinks: If more than 50% of the players enjoyed H3 graphics more than H5 graphics that means that H3 graphics are indeed better than H5 graphics.

I didn't play H5, but documented about it, watched the screens and videos, and even "bought" it, launched it, and messed a bit with it -something I personally don't call playing, my tiny experience of it went as I said before that H3 is successful because it is simpler, which in the evolution of technology or techniques (and even architecture) is always considered better.

Not need to mention the arguments stated above by Salamandre, verriker, Gal and R2 which still make the game above H5 (MapEd... etc.). Graphically speaking, we can even go by saying H3's the best, in a term of simplicity, fairyology, realism, movements' mechanics, smoothness and the time it was released in -basically the last century. H7 had to do wayyyyyy better to be successful and more again to be a masterpiece. I'm not specifically a fan of retro graphics (I'm lying, I am), yet for those who unlike me played H2, I can perfectly understand their point of view since there are great games today that are done in 2D retro graphics which definitely makes them better games rather than if they were released in an unneeded heavy 3D, like the Ori and the blind forest of Galaad or even if we go further this little gem (well it's a phone game but even):








Basically it's a matter of relativity, H3 is like the Rampart's elf which is the best shooter of the game when you consider all the factors as quality/price, damage, level... etc. While H5 is the monk/zealot a bit below average. H7 is the titan, looks impressive but when you analyze it still too expensive and overrated.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


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modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 12:48 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:51, 11 Jan 2017.

Quote:
Both screens have some brown in them is as far as I can relate.


You are not gonna see it if you don't want to see it, but it is well known that in the early stages of H5 development Nival was cloning elements of the old games in 3D and Ashan was only inserted later. The evidence is all over the place in the gamefiles, the adventure objects, some of the haven units and the old universe beta portraits.

Also if you set a team of 3d artists to work to recreate H2 or H3 in 3D than there is no guarantee it will look anything like how YOU picture it in your head. It could just as well come out like H5 minus the ashan stuff.

This is also why ever promising the fans a H3 3D wouldn't be very smart, since there will always be tons of fans who pictured it in their heads differently and are gonna complain.

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Galaad
Galaad


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Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 01:13 PM

magnomagus said:
This is also why ever promising the fans a H3 3D wouldn't be very smart, since there will always be tons of fans who pictured it in their heads differently and are gonna complain.



Like Verriker I'm firmly convinced way lesser people would complain on h5 visuals if they hadn't changed the art direction to begin with. They didn't "clone" assets from the old games, they changed the whole feel in the drawings, modelling, color palette, etc, EVERYTHING was changed. Why? Because Ubisoft wanted to be trendy and edgy, and dismissed the unique atmosphere provided by the NWC games in favor of something generic, because they thought it would sell more. The irony with Ubisoft and this franchise is every bad decisions they made was made because they thought it would sell more. H7 as a third strike didn't forgive. I do not recognize the artistic traits characterizing the old games in the Ubi iterations.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


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modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 01:29 PM

Quote:
I'm firmly convinced way lesser people would complain on h5 visuals if they hadn't changed the art direction to begin with


Considering H5 was bought by hundreds of thousands of people there are actually very few people who complain, it is just a small group of H3 conservatives on HC, through other channels the vibe is very different and H5,H6 graphics are often considered superior.
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Galaad
Galaad


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Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 01:42 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:44, 11 Jan 2017.

magnomagus said:
Considering H5 was bought by hundreds of thousands of people there are actually very few people who complain, it is just a small group of H3 conservatives on HC, through other channels the vibe is very different and H5,H6 graphics are often considered superior.


When h5 was out many people complained about its graphics, heck that is the reason I didn't even play the game before TotE, and I was dragged by some friends who had moved on for hotseats and they didn't really care about that, all was about gameplay for them. Still I cannot singleplay it without Xuxo's patch or your mod, I just don't want to, even if I prefer the gameplay.

Technically h6 is the one with the better graphics, yet is it the better looking? Of course the answer is subjective but you can't deny there is a drastic change in artistic direction which has little or nothing to do with the former games, heck even with h5, yet again one step further away in IMO the wrong direction.

The brand under Ubisoft has lost its artistic identity, artists like the folks from HotA or SW have completely understood that allowing them to create new objects and have them perfectly blend into the existing game with a precision you could believe it is original content. Ubisoft completely ignored this former style, or maybe they simply couldn't see it.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


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modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 02:45 PM

When it comes to art direction (not graphics quality) large game companies like Ubisoft mostly just react to what is in the market. But I think many overlook the transition to sexy and muscular was already underway in Heroes 3 itself, it was just not much ingame because of lack of graphics technology.

Take a look at this for example, this is totally a Heroes 5 poster!!, woman in (useless) sexy fighting gear, super muscular barbarian, excessive haven gold-plating, the elf looks like a H5 blade dancer:


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verriker
verriker


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Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted January 11, 2017 03:22 PM

magnomagus said:
Considering H5 was bought by hundreds of thousands of people there are actually very few people who complain, it is just a small group of H3 conservatives on HC, through other channels the vibe is very different and H5,H6 graphics are often considered superior.


this is really just a matter of baseless speculation IMO to insist if it is just an Enrothian Conservative Party who likes the NWC style or what,
nobody knows if an audience en masse would buy more of a NWC style or a Nival style unless you can magically put out both different games to compete with each other and see the sales (King's Bounty was closer to NWC style than H5 and was at least as successful as that game) lol

even if a Warhammer style actually would sell more, I think there is more to say for an NWC style because that is the existing style at hand, Warhammer and Warcraft are not really the style of Heroes lol

magnomagus said:
Take a look at this for example, this is totally a Heroes 5 poster!!, woman in (useless) sexy fighting gear, super muscular barbarian, excessive haven gold-plating, the elf looks like a H5 blade dancer:


poor example IMO, your difference is that these are heroes and main characters, kings and queens, one wants their heroes to look cool and distinctive, but not your random grunt or lowly soldier lol

I don't see many complained about putting the heroes like Nicolai the Knight in shining armour or having barbarians who have muscles (lol), the ugly bit for me is to have very chunky and deformed or disproportionate models like the orcs of H5, and armours just like Warcraft and highly splendid looking and overdesigned creatures at low tiers such as the weak Praetorian unit of H6 who is even more lavishly outfitted than his majesty King Roland Ironfist there lol

all H2 and H3 characters tend to be well proportioned in their bodies like a real human being or creature, while H5 models are quite deformed and cast amongst each other in a mishmash of standards lol

actually that outfit or lack thereof of Adrienne is indeed just as bad as the H5 BDSM elves, but it is not actually used in the game itself lol
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Stevie
Stevie


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posted January 11, 2017 03:25 PM
Edited by Stevie at 15:32, 11 Jan 2017.

Nah man, that's Heroes 3 through and through. Heroes 5 art is more like Olivier Ledroit's kinky fetishes met Warhammer and that's unarguably not the type of "fantasy" Heroes used to be.

   

Btw, JJ you have a HCM.
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