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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Can we now say H7 is the worst heroes ever?
Thread: Can we now say H7 is the worst heroes ever? This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 09:52 PM

I'm not even arguing tastes or popularity, I'm only 100% disagreeing with Magno for whom h5 looks like h2 as for me they have strictly nothing to do with one another from the aesthetic side.
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i think people grow something like onions -fred79
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 11, 2017 10:03 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:06, 11 Jan 2017.

This is why it sucks, is not a matter of taste. Heroes 4 killed the so popular grid, now grid is back but does 30% of screen, then digits are bigger than creatures. Supposing the pixels I see there represent creatures, hard to say. Congrats on the 3D, working weeks on a model in high definition and with expensive tools then have it in standard battle-view look like crap.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 10:41 PM

The fact that I disagree already proves it is a matter of taste

A compressed screenshot is not the same thing as 1920x1200 rendered fullscreen with AA and AF. The real thing has no pixels, on 50 inch HDTV it looks even better. I have never had any visibility issues with H5, but there is one combat map I like more: the one from Heroes 4.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 11, 2017 10:50 PM

H5 butchered the campaign map as well, by shifting from the symbolic representation from H1-H4 to a more "realistic" representation. If anything, it killed quite a lot of the visibility of the game map at large. No longer did you have a clear overview, you were forced to rotate the camera to see if you didn't miss anything, obscured behind objects like oversized trees or rocks.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 10:57 PM

magnomagus said:
The fact that I disagree already proves it is a matter of taste


No, you saying you like h5 graphics is taste, you saying it looks like h2 or 3 is wrong. You saying NWC was going in a similar direction than UBI is wrong, just go ahead and compare with what Nival did, but just the screen you posted among the h2 ones shows you absolutely don't differentiate very distinct artsyles.

This is h5 poster, go look back the h3 one, it looks nothing like it.
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i think people grow something like onions -fred79
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 11:09 PM

@galaad: My matter of taste comment was only in response to Salamandre.

You can keep saying that H5 has absolutely 0% of H2-3 graphics, but I have already pointed out the facts very clearly earlier in this thread:

Quote:
You are not gonna see it if you don't want to see it, but it is well known that in the early stages of H5 development Nival was cloning elements of the old games in 3D and Ashan was only inserted later. The evidence is all over the place in the gamefiles, the adventure objects, some of the haven units and the old universe beta portraits.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 11:23 PM
Edited by Galaad at 23:26, 11 Jan 2017.

And I already replied you:
Quote:
They didn't "clone" assets from the old games, they changed the whole feel in the drawings, modelling, color palette, etc, EVERYTHING was changed.


magnomagus said:
You can keep saying


The only thing I've been saying is that the ART DIRECTION is drastically different, whatever you found in the gamefiles is completely irrelevant to the argument as they are them too, created within the new atmosphere without any other reference to the old than the names.
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i think people grow something like onions -fred79
My tuning is mighty -Ghost

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 11, 2017 11:33 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 23:35, 11 Jan 2017.

@galaad: that is just your feeling not mine,

Does this look 100% different to you, as if EVERYTHING has changed:





I feel like I'm talking to a blind man, there are countless more examples.



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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 11:36 PM

I see it as a very grotesque adaptation totally lacking the class and elegance of its h3 counterpart.
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i think people grow something like onions -fred79
My tuning is mighty -Ghost

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 11, 2017 11:37 PM

It's basically the same, lol.
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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted January 11, 2017 11:43 PM

Conceptually it's exactly the same, artistically however, sorry but no.
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i think people grow something like onions -fred79
My tuning is mighty -Ghost

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 11, 2017 11:55 PM

The learning stone is ok, imo. What is bugging me is the battlefield standard view, as from my experience 95% of the time you spend in Heroes is in battle. I will dismiss funny statements (no offense) like "50 inch HDTV it looks better" because this is like saying "this car can't go faster than 50 km/hour but in a slope I swear it will go faster".

Please show me a screen of what you call "1920x1200 rendered fullscreen with AA and AF", maybe I missed something. As far, all videos I observed on H5 offer same poor view as in my screen, and is not a surprise almost all of such recorded battles start by the player zooming or rotating.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 12, 2017 12:01 AM

Oh, ffs, how different can an obelisk or pyramid look? Yes, the obelisk doesn't look like a sea gull! However, claiming these two look the same because they are both the same desert terrain or object is not much different than saying Picasso and Dali have a similar style because they both paint faces. I mean, that is not right, that is not even wrong.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 12, 2017 12:25 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 00:47, 12 Jan 2017.

@salamandre: I don't think it is possible to capture what I see in a  screenshot, because you will still see it with your eyes through your monitor. I believe you, if you say you have problems with visibility in H5. People are different, for example, some people get snowblind very quickly in the mountains, while others are hardly notice it.

the benefit of 3d engine, even old h5 one is for me it can still adapt to new technology (therefore HDTV example), a monitor always shows best picture quality when it is on native resolution, but with H3/4 the UI elements just become smaller when resolution is increased with HD mod. H3/4 look best on my old 4:3 LCD monitor, but I can't keep that one around for just 2 games.

Quote:
look the same because they are both the same desert terrain or object is not much different than saying Picasso and Dali have a similar style because they both paint faces.


This a very unique type of landscape only found very rarely across the world (i think arizona), thats already much more specific than 'faces'. It could be just one coincidence, but as I already pointed out there are numerous cases in the H5 gamefiles, which altogether show a clear attempt of a 3d remake of the old adventure map.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 12, 2017 12:45 AM
Edited by Stevie at 00:45, 12 Jan 2017.

Salamandre said:
The learning stone is ok, imo. What is bugging me is the battlefield standard view, as from my experience 95% of the time you spend in Heroes is in battle. I will dismiss funny statements (no offense) like "50 inch HDTV it looks better" because this is like saying "this car can't go faster than 50 km/hour but in a slope I swear it will go faster".

Please show me a screen of what you call "1920x1200 rendered fullscreen with AA and AF", maybe I missed something. As far, all videos I observed on H5 offer same poor view as in my screen, and is not a surprise almost all of such recorded battles start by the player zooming or rotating.


Ahem, excuse me sir but I believe Heroes 1 holds the true graphics superiority, not Heroes 3. If anything, Heroes 3 is a grotesque downgrade from the great unit scale and artistry of Heroes 1. I would like to argue that a blob of pixels the size of 10% of my 600x800 monitor is visual perfection incarnate and will not tolerate any other opinions from mine because I am factually correct and everyone else is blind with bias and that's just how it is.
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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 12, 2017 12:51 AM

Quote:
Ahem, excuse me sir but I believe Heroes 1 holds the true graphics superiority, not Heroes 3.


Indeed


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 12, 2017 01:12 AM
Edited by artu at 01:21, 12 Jan 2017.

magnomagus said:
This a very unique type of landscape only found very rarely across the world (i think arizona), thats already much more specific than 'faces'. It could be just one coincidence, but as I already pointed out there are numerous cases in the H5 gamefiles, which altogether show a clear attempt of a 3d remake of the old adventure map.

Wow, you even took the face example at "face value." In this case, let me tell you that even if Dali and Picasso painted the same individual or even the same individual giving the same exact pose (for instance, me, making a face palm), it would look radically different. It's not about remaking the same objects or terrain as a tribute but it's about HOW they were remade. That's why it's called art direction and H2 and H5 are absolutely nothing similar in style. Not to mention, what started this conversation was somebody saying H3's realistic graphics were not as good as H2's magical illustrations. Yet, H3, by all means, is still closer to H2 than H5 ever will be. If we apply your "logic" to his comment and go object by object or building by building, creature by creature etc, H3 took a lot of the material directly from H2 just as well, even more so. But the style was different. It was different but still tasteful though, which is certainly not what a LOT of people think about H5.  
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 12, 2017 01:41 AM

@Artu:
I was telling you exactly HOW they were remade, a team of artists from Nival took screenshots from all these objects and landscapes and started rebuilding them in 3Ds max or Maya or whatever they used, and this is what came out..

To you it looks nothing similar, that is your opinion not mine, to me both H2 and H5 feel like walking through colorful candyland and I see the same objects popup everywere.

Quote:
It was different but still tasteful though, which is certainly not what a LOT of people think about H5.


You are again trying to enforce your opinion by stating others agree with you, I can do the same thing.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 12, 2017 02:03 AM

I think you completely disregard what constitutes a style. In H2, the graphics look more painting-like and they are reminding of the illustrations of medieval times novellas, where as in H5, they completely feel digital, they are much more closer to animes or a few other computer games of those times, with a metalic shine and edgy  corners. Both being colorful is not even slightly determinitive. I've been reading this forum like 4 or 5 years now, seen all kind of comparisons, and never ever have I met anybody who says H2 and H5 have similar visual styles, once again, both of them benig colorful is not any more specific than two painters both painting faces.


I'm not enforcing anything, btw. Needless to say, you are free to like what you like. But as Galaad said already, claiming artistic similarities when there are none, just because they use same objects or color here and there is not about what you like. Even if they use the same models, that would only mean the transition to 3D changes the style by itself and what worked in 2D, did not work the same in 3D. I can film something exactly with the same light and framing, once in color, once in b&w and the end result could be drastically different in terms of impact. Same material does not mean same effect, that is the obvious notion you insist to disregard about style.
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Arts but facts - Ghost

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted January 12, 2017 02:30 AM

Ok mostly fair, but I don't consider H2 & H5 exactly equal in style, more like 40% for the adventure map and for the towns and creatures not even 5%. I also don't find any of the two games graphics much worthy of the word 'art' with a few exceptions maybe and I have never seen a painting that looks like heroes 2.
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