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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: A down to earth idea
Thread: A down to earth idea
Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted December 01, 2016 05:23 PM
Edited by Mediczero at 09:15, 02 Dec 2016.

A down to earth idea

1. The idea
After seeing some of the projects, in particular the one made by the lovable and fluffy PandaTar (may fortune finds his way), a thought crossed my mind. These ideas where all great and such, but they suffered from one problem. They often seemed overly ambitious. I therefor thought, why not try and put together a concept which would be fairly realistic for the community to gather a team and actually develop. If anything, it would be a statement "Look ubi, we have made a game more fun than what you could. Feel ashamed."
A few things might be worth noting. First of all, it might be a good idea to put it apart from the other heroes games, and in particular the most recent ones. This is to make it so Ubisoft (cursed be them) cannot claim we're ripping off their games. But with original models/sprites/art, slight, but notable, different mechanics, and so forth, it should not be a problem. It should also be noted that I'm bringing back a few leftover mechanics from the older games (alternative upgrades, heroes on battlefield), some of which may have to be cut if this is actually to be made (of various reasons)

2. Adventure map
- The basic
The adventure map is fairly unchanged. It's where the hero moves around, collects resources, visits various towns, mines, and other locations, and encounters new battles to fight. It should be noted that I, unfortunately, have decided to leave out the underground layer from the initial concept, as it didn't serve too much of a purpose. Though it might be allowed to return. A thing that probably won't return is Areas of Control. Works just fine without them.

- Terrains
Grassland (grass)
Mountain (snow)
Desert (sand)
Steppe (dirt)
Sea (water)
Subterranean (underground)

- Resources and resource sites
As in most heroes games, we got five resources. However, as you can see they are slightly different normal. There are now four basic resources, (gold, wood, stone, and iron), and only three rare resources (mercury, crystal, and silver). This is partially a personal choice, always felt there was too little basic resources, and partially to help setting it as its own game, though the inspiration is clear.

Gold:
The basic currency, as always. Gained from towns (depending on the level of the town) and from gold mines.
Wood:
A basic resource used in most constructions. Gained from sawmills.
Stone:
A basic resources primarily used in larger constructions (walls and such). Gained from quarries.
Iron:
A basic resources, used in many dwellings. Gained from Iron pits.
Mercury:
Rare resource, used in all different kinds of buildings. Gained from alchemist's labs.
Crystal:
Rare resource, mostly used in magical buildings and dwellings. Gained from crystal caverns
Silver:
Rare resource, a metal said to be extraordinarily good against various monsters. Gained from silver deposits.

- Dwellings
On the map there are also various dwellings belonging to a single unit of a certain faction. These can be captured and the unit can then be recruited  from that location, or send back to town via a caravan. Some neutral unit also have their own dwellings.

- Other map locations
As for other map locations, we can have various buffing buildings and stat bonuses, guarded battle sites filled with sweet, sweet loot, garrisons, prisons of a captured hero and so forth. What you would expect from a heroes game.

3. Combat
- Combat overall
Overall, combat should work like it always does. Two sides with a number of units fighting each other, with each individual unit having its own turn. One of the few big things that could change is whenever to use a square or a hex grid. Both works honestly, though the square one makes having bigger creatures a little easier in 3D.
Another possible change is a throwback to H4's heroes on the battlefield. I honestly believe that the biggest problem with having the hero on the battlefield is a mere question of balancing. Mind you, one army should not have more than one hero, so all that is left is finding the right balance so heroes don't become overpowered, nor become useless in the late game.

- Abilities and spells
I think that ideally all creatures should at the very minimum have one ability, beyond general ones such as living, undead, flying, and ranged. It might not have to be a game changing ability, but it helps giving each unit a unique flavor.
Spells and spell books should be available not just to heroes, but some units as well. The spells themselves should be divided into a few schools, as well as into 4-5 tiers.

4. Towns
They way towns works should not change too much. It should still be the basic for obtaining new units and new spells, gaining gold, and so forth. The only thing I will add is that we might should consider changing some of the buildings and some of the names a little, just to be original. As an example, the town hall could be replace with a keep, though serving much the same purpose.

5. Heroes, skills, and artifacts
I've already touched briefly on the subject of heroes. In basic terms, they should work pretty much like in the old games, except that we could choose the have them be an active part of the battlefield. If so, their stats should mirrow that of the creatures, though increases as they level up. Idealy they should have the power of a midtier creature at the lowest, amd slowly moving upwards.

- Skills
As for skills, I suggest going for a much simple system similar to that of Heroes III, where there where only skills without perks, yet you could have a total of 8. While without much depth, it is simple and easier to impliment, allowing a greating focus on other parts of the game. I will also add that I think every faction should have a unique faction skill, such as Necromancy for necropolis. Ideally this skill should be defining for how that faction is played, adding diversity between factions.

- Artifacts
Artifacts would, like mush else, ideally not change too much. The only thing to note here is that artifacts could be used to help making sure heroes won't get underpowered if heroes on the battlefield in implimented.

- Reputation
A minor suggestion, which I doubt is going to be used, is the implimention of a reputation system similar to that of H6. I t was one of the less bad ideas from that game, and with some changes could prove useful.

I know this might look plain in comparison to others treads, and mainy based of the old heroes games, yet it is more down to earth and doable.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 01, 2016 07:23 PM

Mm, I'd say add some sort of subterranean terrain too if you go in that direction, plus other terrains to suit different factions.

Also, I'd trade Silver out for Sulphur myself, but that's just me.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted December 01, 2016 07:30 PM

Quote:
Rare resource, a metal alloy said to be extraordinarily good against various monsters. Gained from silver deposits.


Silver isn't an alloy
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 01, 2016 07:35 PM

And it's only reputedly that good against werewolves and sometimes witches.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted December 01, 2016 09:48 PM

MattII said:
Mm, I'd say add some sort of subterranean terrain too if you go in that direction, plus other terrains to suit different factions.

Also, I'd trade Silver out for Sulphur myself, but that's just me.

Well I didn't include it initially as I didn't saw it as too much of a feature (still nice though, sneaking under the enemy's feet.)
Also, I did consider sulphur, but I wanted something different.

LizardWarrior said:
Silver isn't an alloy

My mistake, thanks.

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 02, 2016 07:55 AM

I would not agree with your opinion about skill system, H5 & H7 ones feel much better for me.
Also the idea of hero on the battlefield is something I have never liked. It changes the way how the game is played too much.

Anyway, your general thoughts do not seem to differ much from H7 concept.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 02, 2016 08:54 AM
Edited by MattII at 09:45, 02 Dec 2016.

Mediczero said:
Well I didn't include it initially as I didn't saw it as too much of a feature (still nice though, sneaking under the enemy's feet.)
It's limited by access, you can only get there with Subterranean Gates or Portals.

Quote:
Also, I did consider sulphur, but I wanted something different.
Perhaps you could invent a material then?

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted December 02, 2016 09:14 AM

On a second thought, I might add it.
Also, think I should include a few factions to this idea?

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 02, 2016 09:48 AM

Mediczero said:
On a second thought, I might add it.
Also, think I should include a few factions to this idea?
Nah, that's getting too detailed for what I think ought to be just a theorycrafting thread.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted December 02, 2016 10:17 AM

Mediczero said:
They often seemed overly ambitious.
Mediczero said:
fairly realistic for the community to gather a team and actually develop.


Eeeeh? What's more ambitious between the two, theorycrafting on paper or launching a kickstarter?
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2016 10:30 AM

Are we allowed to post our own ideas here? I ask because I have a few.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted December 03, 2016 12:37 PM

Mediczero said:
I therefor thought, why not try and put together a concept which would be fairly realistic for the community to gather a team and actually develop. If anything, it would be a statement "Look ubi, we have made a game more fun than what you could. Feel ashamed."


That fact that the phrase "fairly realistic" made its way into that sentence just blows my mind.
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted December 03, 2016 01:18 PM

MattII said:
Are we allowed to post our own ideas here? I ask because I have a few.

Go ahead.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2016 06:27 PM
Edited by MattII at 11:21, 08 Dec 2016.

Mediczero said:
MattII said:
Are we allowed to post our own ideas here? I ask because I have a few.

Go ahead.
Thanks.

Towns
* Towns get a 'zone/area of control' which covers an area 6 (Village), 9 (Town), 12 (City), 15 (Capitol) spaces out from the town. You get several bonuses from having buildings in this area.:
- Water Wheels, and Windmills, etc. give up their resources automatically at the start of Day 1 each week.
- If mines are seized by the enemy, they can be retaken by right-clicking instead of having to send a hero out manually. If the enemy has left guards, you can battle them with a portion of your available garrison, support by a 'captain', who is basically a level-1 hero, but with no speciality, or secondary skills, except your faction one, but does have a spellbook (if you have a Mage Guild), with whatever level 1/2 spells are available, which should be enough to give you an edge over heroless creatures.
- Dwelling benefit from your Castle level, and their creaturescan be recruited at the town itself.
- If you have a blacksmith in the area you can buy all war engines at your town's blacksmith.
- Shrine add their spells to your Mage Guild in addition to the MG's normal output where applicable.
* Market efficiency now takes account of both the number of towns and there development. Conversion efficiency is 1-(0.85^X), where X is the cumulative development of your market towns: villages give 1, towns 1.5, cities 2 and capitols 2.5.

Heroes
* Bit of a plug here, but I'd like to see a more advanced army arrangement system in place. If need be we can reduce it to just having 7 creature types after all.
* As well as the normal faction heroes, there are a number of 'random' heroes available, heroes that haven't yet been trained in a racial skill, and can thus be hired by any faction.
* Taverns are no longer globally filled, each tavern now has its own unique set of heroes available.

Skills
* Perks remain, but are reduced in number, so there's only five per skill (in a 2-2-1 arrangement).

Resources
* Instead of having the traditional 1/2 resources per day from mines, have 5/10 per day, so they can be used for more minor stuff, like creature recruitment down to level 4/5.

Creatures
* Each town has 'allied creatures', not available in the town itself, but which don't impart morale penalties on the hero.
* There are more creatures available in the towns than you have the space to build dwellings for, forcing you to choose one creature over another.
* In terms of tiers, three is too few while seven is too many, so go for four or five.

Artifacts
* Replace the Grail with Ultimate Artifacts. A few suggestions of mine:
Conucopia - Provides 10,000 gold, 200 wood, stone and iron and 100 mercury, crystal and silver per day.
Sourcerer's Cloak - Hero's spellbook contains all spells and can cast them at expert level. Also adds 500 points of mana to the hero's mana pool.
Pendant of Persuasion - All random creatures offer to join you.
Phoenix Feather Epaulettes - All creatures in army gain Regeneration. In addition, 50% of creatures killed in battle are returned at the end of combat.
Shield of Earth - Creatures are immune to 50% of normal damage and all magical damage.

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