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| Thread: Is pity a weakness? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 03, 2016 06:10 PM |
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artu said:
If you go way back though, for example in Ancient Greece, being virtuous and being happy were almost always considered interlinked, sometimes to the point where they were the same.
People back in the days had better philosophies than today, where profit and selfishness is considered the only way to be happy.
Anyways, pity is good. 
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Blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted December 03, 2016 06:48 PM |
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Profit and selfishness were extremely prevalent in the past. Human trafficking of slaves (which is basically the ultimate form of greed) has been the norm in most places for the majority of history up until the 19th/20th century. Europe was literally the only continent on Earth where it wasn't normal prior to that, starting at around the 300s, but social justice was still very far away from perfect, and it made a temporary comeback in the 1500s. In every other continent in either hemisphere you could own human beings as property and keep them in mines, harems, kitchens, etc.
And being virtuous is still considered highly synonymous with being happy, at least in academic circles. Warren Buffet is a famous billionaire here in the States, somewhere in the top 5 richest men. Google "Warren Buffet's home" in Omaha, Nebraska. The dude simply does not give a snow.
You're not necessarily going to get the same message from your friends in high school or in Cosmopolitan magazine, but again, that has been the norm of life for millenia and not hardly new. If you look up graffiti from the time of the Roman Empire it isn't so different from the kind of arguments you read on YouTube or Facebook. As an ancient Jew once said, "there is nothing new under the sun".
And, in fairness, studies indicate that wealth (up to a certain extent) does tend to make you more content, but it plateaus up to a certain point. Once you get into the realm of the extremely rich things such a borderline personalities, drug abuse, and depression might actually go up compared to those that are wealthy but not extremely wealthy. Medical doctors and CEOs of small companies are very happy groups of people. They usually have good habits which naturally lead to their financial security as well. Warren Buffet explains that a person with a lot of money is simply going to be a rich version of how the act normally. If they are temperamental when they're poor then they will be temperamental as a rich person. If they're a nice poor person then they'll be a nice rich person. So it will bring out your behavior more and amplify it.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted December 03, 2016 07:36 PM |
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Blizzardman said:
Europe was literally the only continent on Earth where it wasn't normal prior to that
Umm... nope.
Ancient Greece, Roman Empire and a lot of states and nations had no problem with owning people. Romania used gypsies as slaves for quite a long time. Even medieval serfs were a form of slaves.
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Blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted December 03, 2016 07:39 PM |
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Being a serf sucked but it's functionally not on the same level as a slave. That would be closer in line to how black people lived in the US after abolition but prior to the civil rights movement.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 03, 2016 08:00 PM |
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Slavery existed in every continent even in Europe. Even within Vikings, Eastern Europe or Papal States. It's just that the principle of slavery was thought differently.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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artu
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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 03, 2016 09:29 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:30, 03 Dec 2016.
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Here, you had to free the slave in 7 years. Also, sometime ago, I was reading the journal of a French traveler in Istanbul from late 18th Century, in which he explains, "these Turks have no sense of blue blood like us, after he frees his slave, a master can easily consider marrying her daughter to him." Although, we don't have anything similar to royalty (except the dynasty), his comments seemed a little exaggerated to me, while there is no technicality against it, I hardly assume most ex-slaves were seen as ideal future grooms. Of course, back then not every slave was seen as cheap labor though, there were also slaves (war prisoners) who were qualified doctors or musicians or clerks. I'm sure they had it better than a 19th century coal mine worker in many cases.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 03, 2016 10:34 PM |
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“What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!'
Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity.”
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 03, 2016 10:53 PM |
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AlHazin said:
artu said:
If you go way back though, for example in Ancient Greece, being virtuous and being happy were almost always considered interlinked, sometimes to the point where they were the same.
People back in the days had better philosophies than today, where profit and selfishness is considered the only way to be happy.
Depends on what you mean by better philosophy. Ancient Greek virtue had nothing to do with mercy or pity. Instead, you sought a virtue through a sort of service to the city, the greater whole. Not any service, mind, lesser folk like farmers for instance were virtue less idiots to the Greeks. You had to be a higher kind of person the kind that could devote their lives to voting, arguing, and fighting in the hoplite. Essentially, you had to be a strong stallion of might and glory, more knowledgeable than your peers and more influential in the democracy. One need look no farther than the Illiad to see a example of this. When Achilles drags Hector's body from the back of his chariot, despite Hector begging for a proper burial, Achilles is stripping Hector of his virtue and basically damning him to hell.
Of course you had to be lucky enough to be born into a position where you could attain virtue too, so poor people, slaves, women, cripples (if they lived past being abandoned anyway) were incapable of ever attaining virtue. Pity and mercy were not seen as virtues and would not be until the mystery cults particularly Christianity began to influence Europe. Also, virtue had little to with worldly happiness until the Hellenistic period.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2016 11:53 PM |
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Benevolence and self-sacrifice are very different things, and lumping them together confuses the issue. "Pity is for the weak" is an un-nuanced take, but she's half-right - you should indeed put yourself first. It's better to live a comfortable life than an uncomfortable one, to not live a spartan existence so you can give more for others, to not spend your energy helping others in an emotionally unrewarding way, and so on. Similarly, while it's prima facie good to be nice and kind, one shouldn't be a doormat. But on the other hand, there's no reason why putting yourself first would mean not helping others. It can feel rewarding to give some money to strangers, or to give more substantial support to a friend. But that's good because it's good for you (because you care about them), not because of any obligation. Many would benefit from practicing a limited amount of benevolence, but there are many sources of messages that try to push beyond that, to self-sacrifice. which is bad.
I'm not a therapist, but I've known many people who were made miserable by their beliefs about their obligations to others. I wouldn't tell them that pity is for the weak, but that they should focus on themselves more and only help others to the extent it feels good, and that they owe nothing beyond that.
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The_Polyglot
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Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted December 04, 2016 01:41 PM |
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Pity and mercy are evolutionary advantages, so we kept them. Compassion is a virtue, especially in today's unforgiving world
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