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| Thread: Creatures, Money OR HEROES | |
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 12:27 PM |
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Creatures, Money OR HEROES
Nowadays, my harder decisions aren't about when to build money strutures but if I should or shouldn't skip a building turn when I need to choose between hiring another hero and building another struture this turn. Yet, I don't remember this ever been discussed.
I usually go for building but I will most of the times build something of lesser use but usefull for that week's output (for instance, I can build level 7 but go for citadel and buy hero, next day I will build the level seven) if that will allow me to get one more hero this turn.
I think it is usefull when posting strategies to include the difficulty level in wich you most often play, so: I usually play HotA XXL random maps against several AI oponents in one team, at 200% and I barelly beat computer in Jebus XL, all X all, 200%, SoD.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 11, 2016 01:29 PM |
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As you say, it depends merely on the kind of template, the style of game (mp or single) and on the difficulty selected, so is impossible to give a proper advice. People playing same template over and over, know how many heroes they should hire and how early, know what building they can aim at during the first week, and so on.
Is a matter of experience.
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kicferk
Known Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 02:19 PM |
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On Jebus in particular, or any map where you need to break a guard as soon as possible, you should think twice before skipping a build turn.
Consider the amount of army you can have on 121 or maybe 122. Of course it depends on a particular starting zone, so let's fix the zone.
Now for that zone, and the town you picked, consider your army strength as a function of days you spent building creature buildings in town(or stuff needed for them, like mage guild). At this point ignore resources and money, and assume you can actually take stuff like dwellings.
You will find that for every town the function maxes out at 7(duh), but also that there is usually a big jump somewhere in the middle. For example, on a map with 4 unicorn dwellings playing as rampart you really want to build unicorns, so 3 days of building will be much worse than 4 days of building, which will be only a bit worse than 5 days of building.
For each map you need to consider that separately. For instance, a map with no unicorn dwells and 3 dragon dwells will only really give you that big boost in army if you spend all 7 days building army related stuff in town.
There are two things we need to consider before going into resources. Creature banks and upgrades. An upgrade week 1 is not increasing size of army you can buy, but it can make your progress on a map quicker. As such, dungeon, rampart, tower, sometimes castle often require an extra turn. And it usually pays off.
As for creature banks, if you have enough hives/cons and there are not too many high level dwellings around, you can be better off just upgrading your powerstack(say, centaurs), and taking the banks earlier. However, unless the map has lots of them, you can usually take them in the course of standard build order and still break on early week 2.
So now on we go to resources. Say that you found the minimum number of days you need to spend building, using the function above. If you start on 200%, you can't really build for 7 days, probably not for 6 either. But other than that, you need to prioritize getting those buildings built, dwellings taken on week 1. If you need, say, 4 days of building, it's still better to build them as early as possible, as extra creatures(say, behemoth in stronghold) will greatly increase your ability to get stuff off the map. So you better have a good reason for buying an extra hero, like a really important chain to make.
So the short answer to your question is this(for jebus): you usually need to prioritize certain structures on the map you got. If you can get them all done in week 1, and have a good reason(current resources, important chain to make, upgrade in army needed), it can make sense to get some non-essential structures before them. If you play on 200% it makes sense to ignore building for first day or two, until you have enough gold and ways to find gold to expect that you can get all the necessary structures built.
You will find that some towns are clearly more flexible than others.
Necro usually does not have significant jumps in its function. Sometimes you may try to build bone dragons, but on 200% just stick to skeletons. Plenty of place to maneuver.
Dungeon with a good dwell(minos or manticores) needs 4-5 days to shine, but if you build portal of summoning early and have enough trogs you should have no problems getting the stuff you need. Again, should be easy enough to skip a turn here or there.
Fortress and Stronghold don't need many days to get to their usual tipping points.
Tower, rampart, inferno, conflux can be either fairly easy or very hard. If you only get lvl 7 dwells you need to build a lot, and some of them(tower, rampart) benefit a lot from an upgrade, which you sometimes can't make if you go for lvl 7. However, they should be fairly easy if you get a lvl 6 dwell for the first 6, and flux can be pretty easy to start with if you find air elemental dwell.
Castle is a pretty constant thing. You go for angels, but that needs 5-6 days, and castle benefits from upgrade of archers. On 200% it would be pretty hard to skip a turn.
Damn, I forgot how fun long posts can be.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted December 11, 2016 03:42 PM |
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You never know how far a scout/chain hero will get due to the shroud or possible U points.
Losing 1 day in the building order, is dead certain.
I hope that gave you a good answer.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 04:29 PM |
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Kirferk said:
Damn, I forgot how fun long posts can be.
Thanks for educating me.
Ebonheart said:
You never know how far a scout/chain hero will get due to the shroud or possible U points.
Strange, I see this the oposite way. If shroud reveals early blocks, to be able to chain the army between two or more points this day pays more then to build a non-crucial dwelling. Of course, it will depend on if I can in fact do the fight with any other hero, i.e. if main's specialty or his advancement aren't way too significant to that particular battle output.
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted December 11, 2016 05:50 PM |
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I know it is frowned upon but the first week i generally get 3 heroes only. I play on 200% so want to save gold gor week 2 creatures and week 1 get their dwellings.
I only get 2 extra heroes because they also supply troops, i get another one if it's a better hero (i always play with random starting hero) or like +350 gold specialty
The next week i get 2 extra heroes depending on the map. That said i often play pre-made maps where you often have to break guards and loose resorces are more rare so i feel like needing less heroes
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 06:45 PM |
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markmasters said:
I know it is frowned upon but the first week i generally get 3 heroes only.
 Am I that good player? I haven't played HotA random for some time but if I recall it correctly, I usually can finish the first week in Cove with birds and witches and citadel or castle and five to eight heroes. Week 2 I have as many heroes as any top player at 160%(8) but I most often can't break by then cause I still need more army, namelly from creature banks.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted December 11, 2016 07:06 PM |
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Ah good ol' H3, just what I needed after that H4 thread.
Do you build Capitol in online games? If not, then congratulations you are in the world top elite H3 players.
I personally think that anyone who can break into the treasure zone before W4 is a good player.
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tax_375
Hired Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 07:35 PM |
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Edited by tax_375 at 19:36, 11 Dec 2016.
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I am absolutely not an expert player but really interested: why do you need 5-8 heroes in the first week whats the benefit(s)?
Please educate me with a long post
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 11, 2016 07:41 PM |
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Is not that complicate, you need as many heroes as you can handle successfully. If you don't know advanced chaining and fighting without spells then your 8 heroes will just stay there, worthless. In general, you will feel yourself the need of recruiting more than 2-3, but for this you have to always select expert/impossible difficulty, so there is some challenge.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2016 07:58 PM |
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tax_375 said:
why do you need 5-8 heroes in the first week whats the benefit(s)?
Because each hero has a limited amount of movement points, so with one hero you can cover let's say 20 tiles but with 8 u can cover 160 tiles, how u use that extra movement is the key point.
Bring troops to your main, collect resources he left behind after the battles, explore new areas, carry the slower troops, etc... there are tons of specific things a scout (hero with no army) can do but the main idea is: they increase your exploration ratio.
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tax_375
Hired Hero
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posted December 12, 2016 10:40 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
tax_375 said:
why do you need 5-8 heroes in the first week whats the benefit(s)?
Because each hero has a limited amount of movement points, so with one hero you can cover let's say 20 tiles but with 8 u can cover 160 tiles, how u use that extra movement is the key point.
Bring troops to your main, collect resources he left behind after the battles, explore new areas, carry the slower troops, etc... there are tons of specific things a scout (hero with no army) can do but the main idea is: they increase your exploration ratio.
So is it worth something to practice on random maps until I find out how properly use them? The main point here is play as fast as possible against the map?
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 12, 2016 11:42 AM |
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted December 12, 2016 11:45 AM |
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tax_375 said:
So is it worth something to practice on random maps until I find out how properly use them? The main point here is play as fast as possible against the map?
The only difference between online and solo player in terms of gameplay is the end battle, that's it.
You can become an expert in H3 online without ever needing to face a human opponent if you constantly push yourself to become better vs the map and read up on tactics/advice online (just be aware that in some online games a time limit is in place).
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 12, 2016 01:12 PM |
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tax_375 said:
So is it worth something to practice on random maps until I find out how properly use them? The main point here is play as fast as possible against the map?
Yes, I would say is the most important thing in advanced play and it is something (I've been playing the game since first release) I feel I still don't dominate entirely.
The sooner you can clear a site the sooner you can use his bonus to your advantage and since many objects are 1 visit only, to get them before your enemy turns the game in your favor.
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tax_375
Hired Hero
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posted December 12, 2016 01:20 PM |
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Thank you guys for the pieces of advice, I will dig deep into the game this Christmas
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