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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: I cannot believe this passed!
Thread: I cannot believe this passed! This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted January 03, 2017 08:05 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 21:26, 03 Jan 2017.

artu said:
Btw, the U.S. being more anti-intellectual compared to other developed countries is not only my personal observation, there is a great deal of think-tanking about this.
As I said earlier this is caused by intellectualism being perceived by the public at large as being a sign of elitism. Elitism is frowned upon in the US it always has.
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted January 03, 2017 08:11 PM

artu said:
Btw, the U.S. being more anti-intellectual compared to other developed countries is not only my personal observation, there is a great deal of think-tanking about this.

Here in the U.S. our think-tanks have think-tanks and all printing books galore and yet with all the babble and text babble, meanwhile we have all but lost what was once called Education. So thinking the USA has thinking that is well thought out is a serious error.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted January 03, 2017 09:05 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 21:30, 03 Jan 2017.

artu said:
Sunk in liberal democracy, economically better life standards, (relatively) proper education for the masses, social mobility and opportunities, constitutional rights...

I mean, should I really spell out the difference between Kenya and Denmark?


State reasons how there is less variety in the EU than there is in the US. I will respond to each claim.

Or if you want, we could look at rural western Canada vs Toronto.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted January 03, 2017 11:50 PM

Gryphs said:
As I said earlier this is caused by intellectualism being perceived by the public at large as being a sign of elitism. Elitism is frowned upon in the US it always has.


Does it mean every time I commended Bliz on how intellectually creative he was, I was actually offending him?

I'm sorry B-boy, from now on I'll only tell you how un-smart you are, even if I truly feel otherwise.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 04, 2017 01:01 AM
Edited by artu at 01:04, 04 Jan 2017.

@blizz

Well, bring me articles on Canada such as this or this or this or this or this... I'm not saying all of them are 100 percent accurate but where there's smoke, there's fire.

Or look at this chart on acceptance of evolution for example, as you can see, developing countries are not in there at all, the ones with the real juice are all on top and U.S. is the only actually rich first world country from the bottom area, it's the second last, only surpassed by my beloved country in ignorance:



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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted January 04, 2017 01:16 AM
Edited by Gryphs at 01:16, 04 Jan 2017.

artu said:

Or look at this chart on acceptance of evolution for example, as you can see, developing countries are not in there at all, the ones with the real juice are all on top and U.S. is the only actually rich first world country from the bottom area, it's the second last, only surpassed by my beloved country in ignorance:



I rest my case, you know exactly what it is like to live in the US. If Turkey was bigger and had more resources it would probably be sending satellites to Jupiter too, but just because that is possible does not mean you can rid yourself of the religious zealots, that have existed at every step of your nation's existence, so easily.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 04, 2017 01:22 AM

Didn't they ever exist in Iceland or France?
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted January 04, 2017 02:39 AM
Edited by Gryphs at 03:04, 04 Jan 2017.

Four hundred years ago, yeah. Personally I think you are making a mistake when you assume that the "West" developed in the same way and is some single block. The US was founded by British colonists but after it rebelled influence by European thought declined sharply. The US is NOT Europe even cursory examination of the two areas histories shows this. As Europe was going through the enlightenment the US was going through mass religious revivals and so on and so forth. So again, yes, there were fanatics in Europe but during the US's two hundred or so years of existence Europe's religiosity has been going down while the US's and Turkey's has not to the same extent.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 04, 2017 03:05 AM

Actually, no, I never think of the West as a single block but it's true that I think of  the founding fathers and principles of the U.S. as quite the characteristic features of the Enlightenment. I'm not very informed about the revivalist movements that came afterwards though, so maybe I presume a continuity when there isn't one. But keep in mind, what I've been mentioning from the beginning is not the fundamentalism or zeal by itself, if we put another graph here about studies on evolution by country, I'm sure U.S. would be somewhere at the top, too, if not first. The bipolarity is what's interesting to me.
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
A - Ω
posted January 04, 2017 03:24 AM
Edited by tSar-Ivor at 03:25, 04 Jan 2017.

After doing significant research into social psychology I've come to the conclusion that chronic bullying is extremely dangerous. I will upload several academic articles to back this up (writing an assignment atm, but for now ima leave you with an out of context segment of my essay that is relevant to the issue).


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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted January 04, 2017 03:35 AM

artu said:
Actually, no, I never think of the West as a single block but it's true that I think of  the founding fathers and principles of the U.S. as quite the characteristic features of the Enlightenment. I'm not very informed about the revivalist movements that came afterwards though, so maybe I presume a continuity when there isn't one. But keep in mind, what I've been mentioning from the beginning is not the fundamentalism or zeal by itself, if we put another graph here about studies on evolution by country, I'm sure U.S. would be somewhere at the top, too, if not first. The bipolarity is what's interesting to me.
Yes, the Founding Fathers and the ensuing government was based on Enlightenment principles, but the following nation's culture was not heavily influenced by the continuing advance of Enlightenment values as they developed in Europe. Either way the bipolarity is caused by the fundamentalism almost entirely. The only reason the US would lead in an evolution research graph is because the US is wealthy, powerful, and its scientists much like any respectable Turkish scientist are in the sadly small, blue, lines. So still, if Turkey was in the same position as the US they would be sending satellites to Jupiter too.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted January 04, 2017 03:37 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 03:53, 04 Jan 2017.

@artu:

I didn't know you specifically had evolution in mind, but yes, the US has a strong movement of Young Earth Creationism. Part of this is because in general the US is more religious, whereas there became a more widespread disillusionment with religion in Europe, especially in the early 20th century but beforehand as well.

The US started out highly secular in theory but the conditions there also allowed for religious ideas to spread more easily than among the politics of large state churches in Europe. With ideas that are hostile towards evolution in particular, Pentecostalism and off shoots of Baptists are traditionally hostile towards it. I don't know the specifics but grassroots movements sprouted in the US that did not (much) spread elsewhere.

I am surprised it is that high though. I never seem to meet anybody like that but maybe they just don't talk about it.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 04, 2017 04:57 AM

artu said:
The bipolarity is what's interesting to me.


that's because we're a bipolar nation. among other things. but don't worry; we're taking meds for it. the problem is, they're placebo's. and nobody knows the difference.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 04, 2017 07:13 AM

blizz said:
I didn't know you specifically had evolution in mind

I didn't, it all started with the debate about school bullies, levels of gang violence if you remember. But it's a very good example, same is true for denial of global warming, belief in aliens (as in green little caped men holding laser beams), it's also commonly said that average U.S. citizen is terrible when it comes to world geography, some even think Africa is a country etc but I think most people are like that world wide, especially when it comes to far away lands and to Americans, that would be like everywhere except Mexico and Canada.
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted January 04, 2017 07:32 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 07:53, 04 Jan 2017.

The US is used to being front stage on the news and its citizens will have few opportunities or need to know anything about other countries. I know a lot but thats almost purely personality driven: I've found world history and events interesting since I was a little kid. If I didnt I doubt I would be able to point to some pretty basic locations on a map because I would never have a reason to do such a thing. There's a lot of data up there that is utterly useless in my life.

Imo it stands to reason that if a person won't believe something like evolution, which has untold hundreds of practical applications in the present, then they could also be led to believe in any number of other things. Believing in green aliens is FUN to believe, therefore they might believe it. When I was a kid I believed in alien abductions. I watched a few documentaries on the Sci Fi channel and thought it was awesome.  
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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted January 04, 2017 07:58 AM

Blizzardboy said:
I am surprised it is that high though. I never seem to meet anybody like that but maybe they just don't talk about it.
I'm not, when I was a child I was surrounded by such people.
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted January 05, 2017 03:03 PM

Quote:
artu said:
Or look at this chart on "acceptance of evolution" for example

Gryphs said:...does not mean you can rid yourself of the religious zealots

Gryphs said:
. So again, yes, there were fanatics in Europe

artu said:
The bipolarity is what's interesting to me.


@ Artu & Gryphs

What the hell! does any of that have to do with school-bullying and the law in question?

And in case it matters, the slightest to you in the arena of respect, I resent "all of the above" top of post...in THIS tread.

I am NONE of your kind thoughts and I grow sick of reckless words freely given about people you can NOT even know.

Please create an Evolution thread and have at it. Please


--------------------------------------------------------------


Thank your tSar for getting the thread fully back on track.

That is an alarming discussion and it makes sense in the realm of basic human need existing in a healthy state within society. Grim stuff.

I've had two friends that committed suicide and though alcohol was related to one and pot with the other...both I can see now...far too late...had everything to do with embedded shame. This may seem like I am veering away but not when I realize NOW, they both had fathers the "bullied their sons". I had tons of that but I grew very pissed and fought back...which by the way is exactly what I did eventually with school-bullies. Related? I think they must be to some degree.

Thinking about myself now I can see that at first I was terrified of bullies and that is because my dad was one. Once I parted ways with him and would not put up with the abuse...I changed in school too. No person is a doormat.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 05, 2017 03:19 PM

Markkur said:
What the hell! does any of that have to do with school-bullying and the law in question?

The topic and such laws is relevant in terms of social fabric, so the question of anti-intellectualism in America came up, blizz wanted examples, in comparison with other first world countries, I presented some, including the chart. I dont understand what you mean by "making comments about people you dont know" but it's not like linking statistics about denial of scientific facts is some kind of gossip.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted January 05, 2017 03:48 PM

artu said:
it's also commonly said that average U.S. citizen is terrible when it comes to world geography, some even think Africa is a country etc but I think most people are like that world wide, especially when it comes to far away lands and to Americans, that would be like everywhere except Mexico and Canada.


Yeah, you can have fun by asking how many in this forum were aware of country named Algeria for example, that's why I was scotched upon Gryphs finding out, despite being USAian so you can never know.

Gryphs said:
I'm not, when I was a child I was surrounded by such people.


What about today? do you mean this kind of people gets rarer and rarer?
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted January 05, 2017 05:13 PM

artu said:
Markkur said:
I presented some, including the chart. I dont understand what you mean by "making comments about people you dont know" but it's not like linking statistics about denial of scientific facts is some kind of gossip.


Reread what I wrote or not.

Frankly I have my own opinion on how you see life. But none of it right or wrong belongs in this thread or dozens of others.

To repeat but adding a little more; make YOUR own thread and make your entire case on how Evolution is extremely relevant today.(Remember according to you America is backward...well hell, educate everyone on this global-forum on how important Evolution is to the nutz and bolts of society today; not only in the classroom but more importantly...on the streets of our cities.  i.e. As in this thread...you could have made some case, (I suppose) in regards to bullying. Idk but you get the gist of what I mean.


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