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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Let's make our OWN HOMM game! "Heroes Infinity"
Thread: Let's make our OWN HOMM game! "Heroes Infinity" This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted February 21, 2017 06:51 PM
Edited by Mediczero at 19:17, 21 Feb 2017.

Galaad said:
You miss the point Mediczero. Please create a Naga or whatever it is you want to see and show us. It is no surprise some people recreate Heroes III, we all wanted that and it was never made. Not wanting to sound rude but, if it's not good enough for you or if you don't like it, either start learning a 3d software or go to art university. Cheap and lazy you say, I think you mean your attitude.

I could be mad, but actually I shall take it as a challenge. Not 3D though, but a pixelart sprites. H2 inspired.
Edit: Unsure of what to make. Considering a minotaur in the style of the beastmen faction I've been thinking up.

Lord_Immortal said:
I disagree... the author clearly states he wants to do something that the Old heroes be remembered so we should do something that is quite similar to the Heroes 1-4 even in style.

First of all, we should remove all Warcraft-ish visual elemets of exaggerating the creatures. For example:
Heroes III Black Dragon looks like a proper dragon and, no matter how beautiful the Heroes VII Black Dragon is, it is simply NOT in original Heroes style.

Same's worth, for example, or for the much debated Necropolis. I personally am a fan of a gothic-style Necropolis regarding buildings. It should be gray and grim, with very very few colors, like the Heroes 3 one.

Well, How about taking inspiration from H2 rather than H3? The style is similar, but H2's visual are more appealing, to me at least. Although I do enjoy some High fantasy over the dullness of the old games.
However, I must agree with the necropolis and the black dragon. The old games did their styles WAAYYY better. H5 wasn't bad at those, though the black dragon was kinda... grey, and Necropolis a bit too green.

LizardWarrior said:
Setting the camera.

I like the idea of the birdeye's view, though is it for a townscreen or the adventure map? That could mean a lot.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 21, 2017 07:11 PM
Edited by Galaad at 19:17, 21 Feb 2017.

verriker said:
personally if I were you I would ask the Quantomas if he needs a hand with his project (which is basically already this project IIRC) or be born rich or have a rich and gullible friend cheers lol


Yes, if one has the skill and time, I believe contacting Quantomas is the best course of action. I don't even know if he has anything else than AI, it wouldn't be far-fetched to think that more handwork on coding and assets would be welcomed, but I speculate.

You should really do that Nimostar mate, I think he logs in more often to CH but you could also write something here, tell him what you have to offer.
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted February 21, 2017 07:23 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 19:25, 21 Feb 2017.

Quantomas said:
@LizardWarrior
Duly noted, thank you.

My plan for recruiting -- after giving community members a big amount of leeway didn't work well -- is to formulate proper jobs for which people can apply. We need a good match between skills and the work required. This implies that we also need a professional production process that defines how the community interacts with the work and what they can influence. If we make this a priority from the get-go, we should find a solution that works. The key is to make it transparent.


He wants to create jobs. But anyway, we haven't heard from Quantomas for quite some time, I guess he's busy with other things.

Also, if I remember correctly, the VCMI guys used their new engine to make a stand-alone heroes-like game, but I think it wasn't such a big project, bu rather a demonstration of VCMI capabilities.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 21, 2017 07:25 PM

LizardWarrior said:
But anyway, we haven't heard from Quantomas for quite some time, I guess he's busy with other things.


Not sure what you mean by "quite some time", his last post in the CH topic is from around Christmas.

Quantomas said:
Regarding the current development status, the prototype has made a big stride forward in the past week and it is a beautiful machine now. Its AI is fairly universal to assess any feature Heroes games have and eventually will get, but the first goal is to get it running of course.


Maybe you could also contact him instead of making more Erwin heads
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted February 21, 2017 07:29 PM

Oops, didn't see that. I guess we should step back and let the big guys handle it
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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted February 24, 2017 07:06 PM

How is the idea proceeding, NimoStar?

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olorin
olorin


Adventuring Hero
tophatchild.blogspot.com
posted February 24, 2017 10:33 PM

Mediczero said:

Well, How about taking inspiration from H2 rather than H3? The style is similar, but H2's visual are more appealing, to me at least. Although I do enjoy some High fantasy over the dullness of the old games.



Agreed, only your dream already came true: http://heroes2.forumactif.com/

I don't wanna be disrespectful but proposing a new Heroes game from scratch is a childish -and I may add, unnecessary- idea. YouŽll find more realistic approaches in Lizard, Orzie, magnomagus or Quantomas' projects. I ask you for supporting them instead.
____________
Top Hat Child dixit: http://tophatchild.blogspot.com.es/

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted February 25, 2017 08:30 PM

olorin said:
Mediczero said:

I don't wanna be disrespectful but proposing a new Heroes game from scratch is a childish -and I may add, unnecessary- idea.



Strongly disagree.

First of all, the guy who's proposing it is an experienced coder who managed to mod Heroes IV (until recently - unmoddable). NimoStar is more skilled and willful than any other modder here on HC. So, it is quite serious, not childish.

As for unnecessary - you're simply wrong. The old Heroes games (especially 2 and 3) had an unique feeling/atmosphere that the new ones don't have. So something that brings back that feeling but also immortalizes it in a modern gaming engine isn't unnecessary, on the contrary, it's actually quite necessary.

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olorin
olorin


Adventuring Hero
tophatchild.blogspot.com
posted February 25, 2017 10:40 PM

Lord_Immortal said:
First of all, the guy who's proposing it is an experienced coder who managed to mod Heroes IV (until recently - unmoddable). NimoStar is more skilled and willful than any other modder here on HC. So, it is quite serious, not childish.


Yep, I already know that but still he wouldn't do that alone, wouldn't he? He'll need a skilled team working full-time for several years in exchange of... anything at all: a bunch of demanding nerds (including myself) asking for when it's done. Nah, I don't buy it

Lord_Immortal said:
As for unnecessary - you're simply wrong. The old Heroes games (especially 2 and 3) had an unique feeling/atmosphere that the new ones don't have. So something that brings back that feeling but also immortalizes it in a modern gaming engine isn't unnecessary, on the contrary, it's actually quite necessary.


100 % agreed. If we're talking about a 2D pixel art indie game, well, maybe... But this chore is already beautifully "done" by Orzie and co.

In short, what would be the point in all this?
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valgaav
valgaav


Adventuring Hero
posted February 28, 2017 12:33 PM
Edited by valgaav at 12:39, 28 Feb 2017.

Well I'm doing something alike to the intention here. Only thing is my game will run on VCMI  (which is an open source engine) so it will be in 2d.

You can check my topic and already created work on Vcmi forums :
http://forum.vcmi.eu/viewtopic.php?t=485&sid=d681b93fc6700fd4ca0168d499ab9384

Art is based on creative common license models and 2d stuff. Many from sites like Opengameart or from other open source games.

Aside from that I've seen many topics like this one. Most of them were finished with just talking. Since I have some experience i can tell you it probably is more work then you expect it be. doing everything from scratch is probably too much even for a team of people.

Anyway, I gladly welcome any help, but I also believe I will manage to finish it alone

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted February 28, 2017 01:03 PM

valgaav said:

Aside from that I've seen many topics like this one. Most of them were finished with just talking. Since I have some experience i can tell you it probably is more work then you expect it be. doing everything from scratch is probably too much even for a team of people.


This is not NimoStar's case. Around June, he proposed to mod Heroes IV in an almost impossible way only to show up a few times later with the project completely finished.

Probably he's outlying the basic game mechanics as we speak.

I do believe he will make something.

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted February 28, 2017 03:06 PM

One last note, we might also consider the latest CryEngine as a possible engine for this project

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted March 02, 2017 11:30 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:57, 03 Mar 2017.

Many people program their own games. Many mods have longer development process than the base games (in fact most big mods, including those here of Heroes, like WoG, HotA, 5.5, etc. have been in development for many years). And those have to contend with not having the source code, and having to navigate the arcane passangeways of other teams and 90's/early 2000 programming.

THousands of indie games exists, people overestimate the difficulty.
Of course it is not possible to do it without the will to do it...

...


Also, I do have friends that do fully rigged 3D models. They have taught me a little. 3DSmax seems to be a drug for them. They even do some models free on request. THey do it to mod CNC games. I can showcase... (click for larger)





( and this is rendered for isometric 2D engine with only 256 colors palette, but all from 3D modelling )
_________________________

At last I see some more potential supporters, my faith is not completely destroyed as when people tried to tore it down before starting

___________________________

I have thought about how to implement simple base Heroes mechanics and some simple enchancements.

I am looking for feedback on this.

HEROES
For example, we might use a H5-like skillwheel, but without dependencies (those limit the progression and variance of hero builds), maybe rather with "enchancement" of some skills by others. And with skill levels unlike H5 normal progression (for example, like those of H3 - different instance levels of the same skill, increasing the same effect). Hero specialties are better than generic heroes, but all should be carefully balanced (all Heroes should be on the same level, instead of being 2 or 3 "good" heroes for faction). No blood/tears "reputation" system, other system may be put in place.

TOWNS
Towns should be 7-creature total max. Of people want to call core, elite, and champion, or the simple "T1, T2, T3, T4..." is merely aesthetic.
Mythological towns seem to be more popular and varied (Elf, dwarf, ent, etc.) than "racial" towns (all creatures in a single town are some variation of Elf, for example)
Towns could be varied by having two alternate creatures in each slot, like H4 which was an idea implemented or half-implemented in many sucessors. Alternate upgrades should be possible too, but I would not think it is very strategic to allow having both at a time and being able to switch creature upgraded in a different way with a single click - that makes it a non-decision, and it also destroys immersion. IN any case, alternate upgrades and alternate creatures may be planned but are better relegated to later versions. Initial versions should be as simple as possible, while putting in place "Hooks" in the code to easily add more features later (IE, make the process of game design as open and modular as possible).

Thoughts on this?
Both design wise and code-wise.

__________________________________

Of course as I am not a competent programmer, we would still need that key voluntary part. And the decision of engine, as much as we propose (which is good IMO, shows more options), would ultimately depend on them and which languages are they proficcient on.

_________________

So, Maybe I will try contacting quantomas later too... although from what I knew, his project was merely an AI for H5.5, which could be ported in some ways, but a game engine is different (as I am not very well versed on H5 modding, I don't know much about how it works. Is it an angine modification, or "just" LUA scripts? - I know technically the game engine *could* have been done in LUA, but that's only worth of something if we would have the source code before compiling...)
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted March 03, 2017 08:14 AM

It is good to know that you're still at it. It does annoy me that I am no help when it comes to 3d, but if you need original designs I will gladly do my best to provide some sketches, though admittedly not the best quality. Also working on a suggestion for a alternative setting rather than the classic one, almost stereotypical fantasy setting.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted March 03, 2017 02:47 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 14:51, 03 Mar 2017.

Hey, all games need concept and promotional art, don't they? It's a contribution as good as any.

Well I thought of post-apocalyptic mutant setting since those are the assets easier to find, and the setting which is closer to original Might and Magic besides "high fantasy" (Original Might and Magic had post-apocalyptic Sci-fi) but it would just enrage the fans

On other note... I think the best scheme for graphics is isometric for maps (similar to H4, very easy mapmaking, custom brushes, integrated map scripts on the editor, etc.), with unlimited new object extensibility and easy importing (like H3) ; and 2D townscreens (easy made and good results)...
But full 3D for combats. This allows camera positions, zoom, and mood lights.
It sounds difficult, but it's not really so - the only important 3D element is creatures, which are easier to make and find in rigged and animated 3D form than in matching sprite forms to begin with.

* * *

Maybe I will just get more prestige in the community and the ability to do a new game if I release an Heroes RTS first, thus proving it is easy to make new games out of existing engines and assets... then they will believe in me ... or will they?   lol
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted March 03, 2017 03:31 PM

NimoStar said:
Hey, all games need concept and promotional art, don't they? It's a contribution as good as any.

Well I thought of post-apocalyptic mutant setting since those are the assets easier to find, and the setting which is closer to original Might and Magic besides "high fantasy" (Original Might and Magic had post-apocalyptic Sci-fi) but it would just enrage the fans

Well it would honestly be mostly useful for getting an idea of how units should look, if anything. I'm still not that good and mainly works in an anime art style.

As for the setting, I had an idea, rooted in the post-apocalyptic idea. I have in the past played around with the idea of a setting based in an alternative timeline to our own, but where at some point a "magical" apocalypse occurred with a massive release of magical energy, causing the a lot of the wildlife, and even some people, to have mutated various strange creatures, some with magical powers. The game would likely be set a good few hundred of years later, where in the aftermath of the apocalypse a number of new factions have emerged, each with their own culture.
How does that sound?

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted March 03, 2017 09:00 PM
Edited by Lord_Immortal at 21:02, 03 Mar 2017.

NimoStar said:

HEROES
For example, we might use a H5-like skillwheel, but without dependencies (those limit the progression and variance of hero builds), maybe rather with "enchancement" of some skills by others. And with skill levels unlike H5 normal progression (for example, like those of H3 - different instance levels of the same skill, increasing the same effect). Hero specialties are better than generic heroes, but all should be carefully balanced (all Heroes should be on the same level, instead of being 2 or 3 "good" heroes for faction). No blood/tears "reputation" system, other system may be put in place.







NimoStar said:

TOWNS
Towns should be 7-creature total max. Of people want to call core, elite, and champion, or the simple "T1, T2, T3, T4..." is merely aesthetic.
Mythological towns seem to be more popular and varied (Elf, dwarf, ent, etc.) than "racial" towns (all creatures in a single town are some variation of Elf, for example)
Towns could be varied by having two alternate creatures in each slot, like H4 which was an idea implemented or half-implemented in many sucessors. Alternate upgrades should be possible too, but I would not think it is very strategic to allow having both at a time and being able to switch creature upgraded in a different way with a single click - that makes it a non-decision, and it also destroys immersion. IN any case, alternate upgrades and alternate creatures may be planned but are better relegated to later versions. Initial versions should be as simple as possible, while putting in place "Hooks" in the code to easily add more features later (IE, make the process of game design as open and modular as possible).



On mythological towns, YES. Regarding Alternative Upgrades/Creatures, I'm more for Alternative Creatures rather than upgrades, still, I'd suggest you to give a look even at the Disciples II game for maybe some other inspiration(it has a more complex tree of alternative creatures/upgrades).




NimoStar said:

Well I thought of post-apocalyptic mutant setting since those are the assets easier to find, and the setting which is closer to original Might and Magic besides "high fantasy" (Original Might and Magic had post-apocalyptic Sci-fi) but it would just enrage the fans


Hmm... what about Mythology, more specifically, Norse Mythology(with other mythologies as well to fill some gaps). As you may know, Norse mythology revolves around the 9 worlds of Yggdrasil, the World tree. According to me you can make factions for each of these worlds. Neither of the factions is good, nor evil, they are simply different in nature.

1. Midgard/Manheim - Home of the men. Classical Castle faction.
Creatures: Peasants, Archers, Pikemen, Swordsmen, Cavalry, Clerics, Catapults.

2. Jotunheim - Home of the Mountain Giants. (Stronghold faction). Creatures: Goblins, Wargs, Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Roc, Jotun, Behemoth.

3. Alfheim(and the Gods) - Aesir and Vanir are respectively the Might and Magic Hero classes. Creatures: Pixie, Einherjar, Ljosalfar, Valkyrie(Riding Pegasi-like winged horses), Dendroids, Unicorns, Faerie Dragons. (Alfheim/Asgard/Vanaheim are mixed in this faction).

4. Svartalfheim(the Dark & Black Elves) - Svartalfheim is the underground world of the Svartalfar(Black Elves) and Dokkalfar(Dark Elves). The Svartalfar are similar to the Drow(pitch black skin) while the Dokkalfar are pale, vampiric-like elves(a concept also used in the now-cancelled video game "Runemaster"). Creatures: Kobolds(same as Troglodytes, just renamed), Svartalfar, Harpy, Dokkalfar, Minotaur, Manticore, Black Dragon.

5. Muspelheim - The land of eternal fire. Similar to Inferno. Creatures: Imps, Gogs, Asuras, Nightmares, Efreets, Sons of Muspels, Phoenixes.

6. Nifelheim - The land of Eternal Cold. Home of the Nibelungs(mist-people), Hrimthurses(frost giants) and other creatures. Creatures:
Frostling*, Snow Leopards, Nibelung^, Yeti, Ice Witch, Hrimthurs, Thunderbird.

*These are not the Age of Wonders Frostlings but rather fey-like spirits of cold.
^Nibelungs would be mist-like people.

7. Nidavellir - Underground home of the dwarves. In Norse mythology, Dwarves build magical metallic creatures, therefore this would be a mostly construct faction but also Rune Mages and Wyrms. Creatures: Axe Dwarf, Ston Gargoyle, Iron Golem, Balloon, Rune Pries, Battle Boar, Lindwyrm.

8. Helheim - Land of the Dead. The "Necropolis" of the game. Creatures: Skeletons, Cadavers, Wraiths, Revenants, Liches, Black Knights, Bone Dragons.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted March 03, 2017 09:13 PM

While I would perhaps do the lineups differently, I approve of this.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted March 03, 2017 09:23 PM

It's way too early for any design choice or line-up or town. Mechanics need to be implemented first. And that's already a lot of work, you need the graphic engine, the adventure map, instanced combat maps, interface, hero class, creature class etc. etc. etc. Undertaking such a gargantuan project should come with a massive dose of realism, first you need the metal, then the coat of paint.
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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted March 04, 2017 10:27 AM

Mediczero said:
While I would perhaps do the lineups differently, I approve of this.


Well yes, there is much to improveme in the lineups. I just came with those ideas very quickly and neither I am satisfied 100% with how they are right now.

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