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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 ... 101 102 103 104 105 ... 120 140 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted November 24, 2019 12:41 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:42, 24 Nov 2019.

Doomforge said:
I'd rather see the First Aid tent removed from the game, along with First Aid skill.


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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted November 24, 2019 12:54 PM

bloodsucker said:
Doomforge said:
I'd rather see the First Aid tent removed from the game, along with First Aid skill.




Seriously? Why would you remove First Aid Tent and skill?
now we are already at this point were we rather remove game mechanics instead of improving them? As if it would be so difficult to make it useful...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted November 24, 2019 01:06 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:14, 24 Nov 2019.

RerryR said:
Seriously? Why would you remove First Aid Tent and skill?
now we are already at this point were we rather remove game mechanics instead of improving them? As if it would be so difficult to make it useful...

Because while it would be easy to make skills like First Aid, Learning and Mysticism useful, this brings the question of how many skills should the hero have. I would prefer a system that allowed me to learn 10 or 12 skills and even better refuse to learn anything I don't want but if I have to remain with the same old eight slots then I don't see the point in making one too many skills a must have. Even the amazing improvement they made to Scouting has is downside: now all eight slots of the perfect hero are taken, refuse Wisdom if you got something else.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 24, 2019 01:19 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:20, 24 Nov 2019.

I also don't like the idea of removing bad stuff, improve it instead!
Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid, Mysticism, Sorcery and Ballistics could all use some buffs.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted November 24, 2019 01:21 PM

What you describe sounds like the current meta where you try your best to get the same 8 skills on a hero. If you come in a situation where you have to pick any of the useless skills your chance of winning this game is at dangerous risk.
What I would like to see are more viable choices between secondary skills, where a skill like First Aid is not equal to a lost game. Sounds much more appealing to me.
We will see what happens

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2019 01:32 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:33, 24 Nov 2019.

There will always be a meta 8 skill perfect hero, no matter what you do. Unless everything is balanced, ie. bland. This leads to a situation where it doesn't matter what you pick, everything is "balanced" and will contribute in an identical way. A dangerous situation where you may as well remove skills altogether, lol. HoMM6 taught us a thing or two about "chess balance" and why it sucks.

I'm fine with some skills being better than others. What you don't want is a skill that is a 100% waste (remove it) or one that is 100% broken (you have it or you lose - needs an immediate nerf), both are unhealthy.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted November 24, 2019 01:33 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:34, 24 Nov 2019.

RerryR said:
What you describe sounds like the current meta where you try your best to get the same 8 skills on a hero.

It is. I don't believe they want to change the current meta, cause that would bring too much backlash from the revered multiplayer community.  


RerryR said:
If you come in a situation where you have to pick any of the useless skills your chance of winning this game is at dangerous risk.

That's why I want them to be refusable.


RerryR said:
What I would like to see are more viable choices between secondary skills, where a skill like First Aid is not equal to a lost game. Sounds much more appealing to me.


Maybe but that's not the path I see multiplayer taking and there is no way they would diverge from it.

RerryR said:
We will see what happens

And I hope soon.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2019 01:35 PM

People have been playing the same Jeebus Cross for decades now. Change it and they will riot. Whether we like it or not, creature bank meta IS what Homm3 is.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 24, 2019 01:53 PM


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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted November 24, 2019 01:54 PM
Edited by RerryR at 13:54, 24 Nov 2019.

Doomforge said:

I'm fine with some skills being better than others. What you don't want is a skill that is a 100% waste (remove it) or one that is 100% broken (you have it or you lose - needs an immediate nerf), both are unhealthy.


I agree with you here. Most noticably Earth Magic is an absolute must currently, but this also has to do with the power of Slow.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 24, 2019 08:28 PM

Doomforge said:
That's what you get when you're playing jeebus cross 24/7.

On most maps, you don't get a million hives and conservatories + books of earth magic for taking.

Jeebus Cross meta =/= other maps.


Well even on a custom map or anywhere else I wouldn't put any points wisdom to be honest.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2019 08:59 PM

In campaigns (like HotA), especially on impossible difficulty, your access to level 5 spells and as much mana as possible (paired with intelligence skill) is probably the most powerful path to take, though. You can overcome anything if you have enough mana to spam summon earth elemental and resurrection, after all. And if you want to do some week1 rushes with no army, the more mana you have, the better

HotA campaign is quite fun, but also very frustrating.
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 24, 2019 10:50 PM

Well I never was a big fan of campaigns but true if you start with a lvl 5 spell and have certain conditions on this specific map I agree it could be useful... But I was speaking in general and In that case wisdom is by far the most inferior point you may invest in

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2019 11:02 PM

Wisdom often feels unnecessary because there's too much gamble with mage guilds and tomes allow you to cast lvl 4-5 spells anyway (and obviously you can get them on JC).

However, I'd like to point out that many high-level battles on JC end up with players using armageddon, implosion or - especially - summon elemental.

And obviously, DD and - to lesser extent - TP are game changers.

Wisdom is not bad per se. Would you call something that allows you to cast dimension door bad?

It's the tomes - and the RNG of magic guilds - that makes it a less desireable option than something you can be 100% sure to work, life offense.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 25, 2019 12:38 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 02:54, 25 Nov 2019.

BRING BACK OLD RESISTANCE

1) New resistance isn't taking into account resistance against magic from neutral creatures, or from player-controlled creatures either (Example: Enchanters, Dragon Flies, etc.)

2) Old resistance protects you from curses, new resistance is only really useful vs damage spells, which are useless in the long term anyways

3) Old resistance is useful at any game stage, 5%/10%/15% of spell resistance works even if enemy caster has 3 or 2 power skill. New HOTA Resistance only works if enemy hero has high Spell Power. It does nothing against low caster who can still cast Mass Slow. It STILL does nothing against high power caster casting Mass Slow, since the number of rounds of high power will still be way too long for a "30% reduction" to be of consequence to the battle. Does it matter if the slow lasts 14 or 21 rounds? Of course not, it will be over earlier and the first rounds of the effect are the most important. With Classic Resistance even a single one of your creatures resisting the effect makes it immediately and tactically worse.

4) Old resistance stacks with natural resistance such as the one provided by Unicorns and the one of Dwarves. New resistance doesn't. Said in another "mathematical" way, old resistance has positive synergy, new resistance has NEGATIVE synergy since it becomes useless if your creatures naturally resist, while natural resistance is less important if spells are less powerful anyways.

This isn't just a "way of saying it", positive and negative synergy can be proven statistically, too, for those that care.

In other way of saying it, new resistance sucks.

As of the Gold Dragon conundrum, I already answered it ages ago:
1- Make Magic Mirror a mass spell (Its the worst spell in the game anyways)
2- Make Gold Dragons be able to be resurrected by the LEVEL 5 SACRIFICE, which due to a bug counts as level 4 in the second part since it uses just a custom resurrection because developers were too lazy to duplicate the spell.
Simply put if Gold Dragons can be sacrificed by the spell, they just be able to be rezzed by the spell.

And HOTA should apply this fix, it is a DEVELOPER OVERSIGHT, not a game mechanic we are talking about.

(In fact NWC fixed this mechanic in H4 where they added a "Sacrifice" spell and a second "Sacrifice_Client" level 5 spell so it is counted correctly when it resurrects.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 25, 2019 01:23 AM

NimoStar said:

2) Old resistance protects you from curses, new resistance is only really useful vs damage spells, which are useless in the long term anyways



The underlying basic problem is that most spells aren't affected by Spell Power in a meaningful way.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 25, 2019 01:40 AM

NimoStar said:
BRING BACK OLD RESISTANCE



Well everything is said about this topic... and it's not the final layout anyway...so...

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&PID=1464589#focus

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 25, 2019 02:28 AM

gatecrasher said:

The underlying basic problem is that most spells aren't affected by Spell Power in a meaningful way.


Yes, that's a problem with the spell system, but it woudn't be a problem for RESISTANCE if they woudn't have changed it to reduce the most useless of stats instead of its perfectly fine previous incarnation of which nobody complained.
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mihaid
mihaid


Hired Hero
posted November 25, 2019 07:35 AM

gatecrasher said:

The underlying basic problem is that most spells aren't affected by Spell Power in a meaningful way.

I made the point some time ago that the new Resistance gives 100% chance to Berserk. And it only requires spell power 1 to be cast successfully.

I believe it should be treated like Hypnotize, so it's affected by spell power. The mechanic exists in the game. Just needs to be implemented.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 25, 2019 08:59 AM

Hypnotize is affected by Spell Power in a way that renders it unusable in 99% of cases.

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