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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 ... 103 104 105 106 107 ... 120 140 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 04, 2019 10:58 PM

I like Slayer better as a mass spell, Magic Mirror too.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 05, 2019 05:09 AM

bloodsucker said:
I probably shouldn't suggest this, since I'm not in the MP Community but how about an option to create a special loss condition for losing starting hero? This way the Poor Man's Town Portal exploit would stop working, at least for him.

* I came with this one after trying PM TP my main on a custom map without noticing the condition and lose the game.
"Lose Specific Hero" is already a potential loss condition.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 06, 2019 12:10 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:12, 06 Dec 2019.

Yes but I was talking about an option for the RNG to create a random map with starting heroes that couldn't be dismissed.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 06, 2019 06:27 PM

bloodsucker said:
Yes but I was talking about an option for the RNG to create a random map with starting heroes that couldn't be dismissed.
That means adding more check-boxes to the RMG menu, which would mean reworking the UI. Not a short job.

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weilan
weilan


Known Hero
posted December 07, 2019 07:43 PM

I found this mod for HoTA:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/stfs-sensible-changes

Which actually makes useless skills useful, like Learning giving a huge boosts in XP compared to the default version, Eagle Eye also having boosted chances and ... yeah, you can see for yourself, it actually makes the useless skills actually useful.

I think the HoTA team needs to implement those changes into the game by default. Sure, they addressed some faction balance, like Necropolis and Inferno, but still, there is so much of the game that feels unchanged and it needs to be.

This new update with the Factory town, I don't know if it will have more under the hood balance changes, but it better does.

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Timmysoboy
Timmysoboy


Hired Hero
posted December 07, 2019 09:46 PM

I believe eagle eye and mysticism (maybe healing) we’re hinted at in the video teaser that was released last year.  Sounds like the team knows what needs changing, it’s just all a matter of making the right changes, and the time it takes to make them.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2019 11:39 PM

Sorcery remains less useful because it still only affects dmg spells.

Eagle Eye is still only useful for specially designed scenarios. Otherwise there are more than 8 permanently better skills.

Town Portal costs 44 points? Don't wanna play that game.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 08, 2019 01:22 AM

gatecrasher said:
Town Portal costs 44 points? Don't wanna play that game.

That sounds like a quite reasonable idea. It is still useful but you will have to plan day 1, not just TP to every town where you want to recruit creatures, visit stables and you ready to go. For the other days you just have to visit a well from time to time.
Much better then just TP too the nearest town or some other nerfs I read about.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 01:50 AM

weilan said:
I found this mod for HoTA:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/stfs-sensible-changes

Which actually makes useless skills useful, like Learning giving a huge boosts in XP compared to the default version, Eagle Eye also having boosted chances and ... yeah, you can see for yourself, it actually makes the useless skills actually useful.

I think the HoTA team needs to implement those changes into the game by default. Sure, they addressed some faction balance, like Necropolis and Inferno, but still, there is so much of the game that feels unchanged and it needs to be.

This new update with the Factory town, I don't know if it will have more under the hood balance changes, but it better does.


Ehh, those are pretty dramatic changes one would say. Some of the changes make pretty much no sense to me at least. That mod basically makes all heroes the same (primary stats, the way skills are learned) at that's a total no-no. Mysicism, first aid and eagle eye are still horrible, I mean nobody would still not pick them.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 08, 2019 07:53 AM
Edited by MattII at 07:59, 08 Dec 2019.

Mysticism can be fixed by rejiging the numbers (instead of +2/3/4 Spell points, make it +5/11/18).

First Aid is somewhat harder to fix, and impossible if it remains based around the FATent. You could improve it by having it give Basic/Advanced/Expert Cure to the hero. Also, the skill makes FATent tougher.

I honestly don't know what could be done about Eagle Eye. The more spells you have, the weaker it gets. I just can't see a way to keep it useful. Maybe by learning from Shrines at a distance?

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 07:54 AM

Hello,

One of the Navigators should produce 1 gem/day because he can extract them from sea/Lakes.

maybe editing Andal specialty and biography accordingly will do good.

(you can see gem pond is actually a lake)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 08, 2019 09:04 AM

Is there no way to see what this mod does, without downloading the files?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 08, 2019 10:19 AM

I think Captains should start with spellbook. Why? Cause they start with three points of magic for three of might and have better chances for power then for defense which makes them an hybrid class, like Battle Mages, Alchemists and Death Nights, and all these other classes start with one.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 10:30 AM

They really don't need any buff.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 11:01 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Is there no way to see what this mod does, without downloading the files?


This is all that can be seen without looking at the files. It seems there are more changes overall, but the creator calls these as mod highlights:

______________
SPELLS:

All spells have an equal chance of appearing in, virtually, any Magic Guild, except for those that affect only undead/living and Armageddon.

Most spells have shifted levels (ex: Fly is now level 4 and Town Portal is level 5).

Most spell costs and power have been modified to be either less useless or overpowered (where possible).

Visions - Fire-only spell

Town Portal - double mana cost

Dimension Door - can only teleport up to 2 times at advanced and expert, and 1 time otherwise.



SKILLS:

Almost all heroes have had their starting primary skilles rebalanced and the chance to gain specific primary skills on level up has a similar proportion to the starting ones, but only up to level 10.

All heroes have access to all secondary skills (the exceptions being Necromancy and Diplomacy), with might heroes having a higher chance of gaining might skills but lower chance of gaining magic skills (vice-versa for magic heroes). Also, stronger skills have a lower chance of appearing.

Learning - now grants +75%/+150%/+225% experience. This may seem a lot, but it is not - a hero with basic/advanced/expert learning would roughly have 2/4/6 levels above another hero that would gain the same amount of experience (3/6/9 if he also has learning specialty).

First aid - heals up to 50/100/200 hit points.

Mysticism - recover +2/+5/+9 spell points per day.

Intelligence - increases normal maximum spell points by +20%/+35%/+50%.

Sorcery - spell damage eis increased by +15%/+25%/+35%.

Eagle Eye - same effect, but has a 60%/60%/60% to learn enemy spells.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 08, 2019 11:24 AM

Thanks Hourglass.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 08, 2019 11:36 AM

The problem with First Aid will always be that having the FATent as the centre of the ability will leave it very easy to counter, just destroy the tent, which is a Lightning Bolt cast with 3 power or an Ice Bolt cast with 4, never mind creature attacks. Even upping the health of the tent (perhaps to 100/150/225 hp) will only see it being of limited use.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 08, 2019 11:49 AM

In HoMM5, the tent saw some use, but it resurrected HP in addition to healing.

Here's the problem of this skill: either you change the game completely by allowing tents to resurrect troops (this might alter the "meta" which will frustrate players) or nothing will stop it from sucking. Just upping the HP won't do.
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Kivo
Kivo


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 11:55 AM

I think what would be good is programming the war machines to not have "health" but an amount of points each they have to be hit.

So for example tent has to be hit at least 5 times, no matter the stack could be 5 Pixies could be 20 Ghost Dragons, ballista 8 times, catapult 15. This would make it equal for short small games and long run games even when unit stacks are huge and spells are powerful.

I do wish the war machines would get more powerful with each hero level by some % and the hero skills would just boost them even more.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2019 12:08 PM

MattII said:
Mysticism can be fixed by rejiging the numbers (instead of +2/3/4 Spell points, make it +5/11/18).

First Aid is somewhat harder to fix, and impossible if it remains based around the FATent. You could improve it by having it give Basic/Advanced/Expert Cure to the hero. Also, the skill makes FATent tougher.

I honestly don't know what could be done about Eagle Eye. The more spells you have, the weaker it gets. I just can't see a way to keep it useful. Maybe by learning from Shrines at a distance?


The problem here is, that even if the skills are somewhat buffed, they're not worth picking. This is because the core desing of all three skills you mentioned have serious issues.

For example, the problem with Mysticism is that a mana regeneration as a skill isn't worth it, and this is because the whole mana renegeneration is in an akward spot in the game. You gain one spell point daily, which is sorta fine, but it makes it look like gaining mana is a difficult task. However, this is not the case - just spend a night in town with a mage guild build, and you will regain all your mana. The Well does the same, and it's a very common object and often not even guarded (what). Then there are simple ways of doubling your mana, and lastly, Wizard's Well isn't a hard artifact to combine.

So while these things exist, there simply isn't room for a thing like Mysticism, as it's something you can skip and live without, and have room for more useful secondary skill. IMO the gain of mana should come from objects and artifacts, and thus the sole effect of mysticism isn't worth it, and it needs to be redesingned or at least it needs a second effect of some sort.

The same can be said about First Aid. The skill is empty inside, and will never be pick worthy if the core mechanic stays the same.  The fact that you need the Tent makes it really bad. I often see ideas of making the tent more durable, but it doesn't change the fact that the player has hard time of finding the tent in the first place, if you can't buy it from your starting town's blacksmith. (note that there are 10 towns, and only 3 of them have tent in their blacksmith)
In the fights the healing would of course help, but then there's the fact you can only pick 8 skills. I think first aid healing could have it's place in the game if the element of casting spells were completely removed - casting spells gives you way more utility of avoiding damage in the first place. You can kill enemies faster, make your troops harded to kill, make it harded to the enemy to reach your troops, you can resurect your troops, heal them... the list goes on, but the conclusion is that the niche first aid healing is trying fill can be done numerous other ways with way better success.

And lastly my favorite Eagle Eye. I've ranted about the skill in this topic couple of times, so I'll not do it again, if you're interested you can look at few of the first pages in this thread.


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