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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 26, 2020 05:07 PM |
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That would be awesome, if that's the case.
Also Ballista specialists were made obsolete by the Cannon, so Ballista and Cannon specialists should be able to use both.
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted March 26, 2020 09:54 PM |
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Lord_Immortal said:
I compiled a list of Might & Magic (6-8)(few from 9) & Heroes(1-4) creatures not represented in Heroes III HotA, NOT Sci-Fi monsters or unrevealed Factory creatures and NOT repeating the same creature:
MM6:
Brain/Blood/Soul Suckers
Cannibals
Giant Snakes
Giant Spiders
Female Druid (could be the new female Druid hero)
Agar's Pets
Kreegans
Winged Kreegans
Fakirs (Followers of Baa)
Thuggees (Female Assassins)
Oozes
Female Warrior
Various types of Human warriors/guards/soldiers (can be some sort of mercenary)
Wyrms (Wingless dragons)
Werewolves
Giant Rats
Priests of Baa
I'd say that in terms of design, the VARN line could be translated into Heroes 3, it just needs a new name to obscure the sci-fi background of it (like the Succession Wars mod did).
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 27, 2020 12:07 PM |
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Crap, I would have really loved a "secret" sci-fi troop. To be honest, I love the Forge because it also shows us how crappy humanity is too, and I always loved worlds that show us their own true face, where fantasy and sci-fi coexist in "peace" (and many other stuff, like how advanced can aliens be and how we too could fall into barbarism someday, forgetting about our civilization, and then someone finds tanks and weapons and wage war. The same happened to Kastore, the founder of the Forge faction).
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 27, 2020 09:32 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:46, 27 Mar 2020.
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FirePaladin said:
Crap, I would have really loved a "secret" sci-fi troop. To be honest, I love the Forge because it also shows us how crappy humanity is too, and I always loved worlds that show us their own true face, where fantasy and sci-fi coexist in "peace" (and many other stuff, like how advanced can aliens be and how we too could fall into barbarism someday, forgetting about our civilization, and then someone finds tanks and weapons and wage war. The same happened to Kastore, the founder of the Forge faction).
Mm, I honestly think steampunk and/or crystal spires type scifi would work much better that something closer to contemporary tech.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 27, 2020 10:21 PM |
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MattII said:
FirePaladin said:
Crap, I would have really loved a "secret" sci-fi troop. To be honest, I love the Forge because it also shows us how crappy humanity is too, and I always loved worlds that show us their own true face, where fantasy and sci-fi coexist in "peace" (and many other stuff, like how advanced can aliens be and how we too could fall into barbarism someday, forgetting about our civilization, and then someone finds tanks and weapons and wage war. The same happened to Kastore, the founder of the Forge faction).
Mm, I honestly think steampunk and/or crystal spires type scifi would work much better that something closer to contemporary tech.
I didn't mention what kind of sci-fi it would be. The Ancients' style was something like this:
Heavenly Forge
Sentry Robots
Drones
Some kind of robot dudes made by them
Webstation Beta 5
So, these are some of them. I'd say they aren't really contemporary style, more like late 90s or something style. Also, this baldy is one of the Ancients: Einar
Edit: And these too are some of their androids:
Dude no.1
Dude no.2
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted March 28, 2020 12:43 AM |
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As one might notice, Ancient technology - eg. the primary source of science-fiction in Might and Magic - show massive differences in aesthetics even within games. The Tomb of VARN and [Synonym of Protector] of VARN line in MM6 do fit the rough definition of the "crystal spires and togas" trope, just evoking ancient Egypt instead of Rome or Greece. That's what makes that line good candidates for a 'secret' sci-fi creature.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 28, 2020 01:03 AM |
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LordInsane said:
As one might notice, Ancient technology - eg. the primary source of science-fiction in Might and Magic - show massive differences in aesthetics even within games. The Tomb of VARN and [Synonym of Protector] of VARN line in MM6 do fit the rough definition of the "crystal spires and togas" trope, just evoking ancient Egypt instead of Rome or Greece. That's what makes that line good candidates for a 'secret' sci-fi creature.
Yeah, you're right. However, that time, they probably tried to "mask" the technology, since they weren't gonna just leave a frickin' full-metal building guarded by some clearly-robots to be seen by ordinary mortals.
Edit: I must also mention, it's not entirely necessary for it to be extremely obvious that the creature is a sci-fi robot, but we already have one like this, the Angels/Archangels.
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excalibur
Known Hero
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posted March 28, 2020 11:47 AM |
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Suggestion:
When you use the Clone spell in a battle, at the end of it, it adds the clone creatures to the casualties making it hard to understand how many of them have actually died. Perhaps this must be avoided.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 28, 2020 11:54 AM |
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I already reported that as a bug, clones should'nt count as casualties.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 28, 2020 11:55 AM |
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excalibur said:
Suggestion:
When you use the Clone spell in a battle, at the end of it, it adds the clone creatures to the casualties making it hard to understand how many of them have actually died. Perhaps this must be avoided.
Might be impossible/very hard to do, since we're talking about a 1999 game, and the code has already shown to have limitations. But there's also a chance it can be done by just tweaking some stuff, so I dunno.
phoenix4ever said:
I already reported that as a bug, clones should'nt count as casualties.
I don't think it's a bug. I know scripting and such, so it was probably made to be like this (unintentionally or not).
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 28, 2020 12:07 PM |
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Well clones were not there before combat, so they are not really something you lose, aka it's a bug.
But you might be right about code limitations though.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted March 28, 2020 05:52 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Aren't Sea Serpents basically Giant Snakes?
And some of your units are just boring to include when there are similar ones around (just some of them, not all). Many of them are cool though, but we can't just add a heap of troops into H3.
But your post was an ideas post, right?
I meant Cobras from M&M 8.
No, my post wasn't an ideas post as much as gathering together all the unused creatures from M&M 6-9 just to see how many themes can we have. Mostly because there are tons of unexplored themes from the original Might & Magic universe that they might include.
If I had to write my ideas right now of all the new towns Heroes 3 needs, I'd say:
-A Vori Elf town, even though Vori Elves play an important part Chronicles. This could be a snow-themed town.
Lv.1: Viking Mercenaries, Lv.2: White Tigers, Lv.3: Ice Demons.
Lv.4: would be Vori elves - basically sharpshooters but slightly weaker (fit to be a unit unique to a town). Lv.5 would have Wulfsark->Wulfheadnar would be respectively berserkers with wolf skin and werewolves (upgrade). I'd go for norse-mythology inspired werewolves instead of classical horror beasts. Lv6 Yeti (M&M9) and Lv 7 Valkyries, which I'd take as inspiration the Raven-men from M&M 9. They would be raven winged women(similar to angels - with human-looking faces but raven legs). Upgraded have more armor and also Raven-shaped helmet. The Einherjar would be an unique lv4 unit: upgraded Valkyries can "resurrect" both yours and enemies stacks into Einherjars (converting HP). (only for how long the battle lasts).
-A Dark Elf town, representing Jadame and the Alvar guild, full of mercenaries and exotic creatures. This one can be very economy-oriented town but either weak or expensive creatures. Wasps as Lv1.
Thieves/Rogues can be 2nd level units here. Lv3 Wererat->Wererat Smuggler. Lv 4 Merchant's Guard-> Caravan Defender (Dark Elves). Lv6 Conjurer->Enchanter. No idea for levels 5 and Lv.7 but I'd look at D&D for ideas.
Native terrain would be grassland.
-A desert town (see after my factory suggestion).
I'd be treating the factory quite differently, however. Ignoring the previous suggestion I made on the desert town(because of trolls), and given the H2 Wizard atmosphere as basics for the factory, I'd have a half a mind to make it a halfling+troll faction (not a human one). If you ask for my idea as of now, seeing all different forge variations + the currently revealed factory creatures I'd go for:
Lv1: Halfling -> Sheriff (would have pistol instead).
Lv2: corpses with chainsaws
Lv3: Gogs armed with flamethrowers.
Lv4: Boar-Golems like Gullinbursti.
Lv5: Troll -> War Troll.
Lv6: Tanks - Similar to Da Vinci's tank but oblong (so as to fit two hexes) Something that can fit a medieval fantasy theme.
Lv7: Juggernaut -> Dreanought: I love how the Forge team wanted to implement something similar to H2 Cyclops but I'd have sticked to the earliest concepts of a cyclops with extra equipment.
The backstory of the factory would be probably related to the rebuilding of the Ironsand Desert after the Cataclysm of MM8 and making it a new home for Halflings aswell. Had I not seen this concept, I'd have the halfling-mounted Mechanical Dragons from H4.
Finally, the Desert Town, I'd like to have something reminiscent of the 1001 nights but also include the "India" theme from M&M 6. So I'd put:
Lv1: Thuggees (female assassins from M&M6)
Lv2: Fakirs - look like baa cultists from MM6 and ride flying carpets.
Lv3: Nomads (upgraded look like Heroes 1)
Lv4: Ghouls
Lv5: I think about a Simurgh.
Lv6: I'm either for Rakshasas like in the original myth or Karkadann
Lv7: Tomb Guardians (anubises from MM6)
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted March 28, 2020 06:13 PM |
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As a 2nd thing (also a 2nd post to separate ideas), we all know that Heroes III was kind of incomplete, and that includes hero models. So while our team tried to settle for Male/Female necromancer as Vampire Lord / Wraith, I'd say to remake their models:
Male Necromancer
Female Necromancer
Also, Female Druid Hero.
Also, I'd add a new unit, Skeleton Archer, (different bow, though) that is the 3rd upgrade of the Skeleton unique to Galthran (change his speciality to giving skeleton warriors ranged damage instead of ever-powering his Skeleton Warriors).
Finally, for the purpose of adding an alternate creatures to every faction, I'd start to think about:
Dragon Hunters(female, Castle),
Wisps (Rampart)
????? (Tower)
Upgraded Mummies(Necro, body like this, with Pharaoh Crown and bronze mask (like gold golem) and staff will be still cobra),
Kreegan(Inferno)
Succubus(Dungeon),
Boar Upgrade (Stronghold)
Cuoatls (Fortress)
Salamanders (Conflux)
Triton (cove)
Suckers (Factory)
------------------
Fear/Terror (Alvar)
????? (Vori)
Cobra-Men (Desert) - like Oasis mod
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 28, 2020 06:37 PM |
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Lord_Immortal said:
As a 2nd thing (also a 2nd post to separate ideas), we all know that Heroes III was kind of incomplete, and that includes hero models. So while our team tried to settle for Male/Female necromancer as Vampire Lord / Wraith, I'd say to remake their models:
Male Necromancer
Female Necromancer
I like this idea. (Although we could keep the original vampire model for Thant, since he is actually a vampire.)
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted March 28, 2020 08:25 PM |
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I actually have many ideas for changing certain hero class appearances to achieve a better look ingame. For example:
Planeswalker: Currently Planewalkers are exclusively Fire Elementals and ride Nightmares. I think that should change to something completley netural (that might be somehow interpreted as a Psychic/Magic Elemental but technically can be everything). Similar to Rjakh from Warlock 2, or the Necromancer from Heroes 2. Hooded figure with shining eyes and a crown. Hood and cloak is dark blue with sun, moon, stars (ornament similar to enchanters) etc. and eyes are gleaming purple. Maybe or maybe not a breastplate.
Beastmaster and Witch: As we all know the Beastmaster and Witch classes are Male-Female exclusive in Heroes III. And they have green Lizardman graphics, which are completely unrelated to H3 lizardmen. So I'd suggest this:
Beastmasters have both male and female graphics (in fact there is no reason why there shouldnt be female beastmasters, but still), inspired from this.
As far as Witches are concerned, usually Witch has been feminine and Warlock masculine. However warlocks are a separate class (and nicely made). So I'd suggest to take inspiration from MM7 female warlock for female Witch class. Of course, changed and polished to fit more the Fortress theme (maybe some inspiration from Verdish and Adrienne?). As far as the male witch class is concerned, I'd suggest (also as an easter egg), make a model based on the Witcher. Why? Because the Witcher novel introduced the "masculine" version of the word witch both in Polish and English (read on wiki). So it can be a tribute on that and also to the fact that the Polish Community is extremely active and supportive of H3 modding.
In any case, these are elements which would not appear on normal games unless the team decides to add 2 heroes for the Fortress which fit the new looks: female human Beastmaster with speciality ???? that would fit the look (leopard skin) and male "witcher" looking like Geralt (but with some other name, maybe that too taken from the Witcher books) I'd suggest with speciality the new Interference skill.
Extra Towns
Alvar Heroes:
They would be dark elves and their appearance and clothing be like:
Alvar Might Hero Clothing
Faces of hero models:
Alvar Might Male
Alvar Might Female
Alvar Magic Hero Clothing
Faces of hero models:
Alvar Magic Male
Alvar Magic Female
Desert Heroes:
Might hero still no idea but magic hero would look like MM7 Priest of the Moon, which has ancient middle-eastern style.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 28, 2020 08:36 PM |
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Exactly. Dark elves. Only problem is to find a connection with the MM plot at least, since I remember them being in MM games.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted March 29, 2020 12:31 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Exactly. Dark elves. Only problem is to find a connection with the MM plot at least, since I remember them being in MM games.
They were present in M&M 8 Day of the Destroyer. Basically, the Dark Elves had set up a very powerful merchant guild in Alvar and also ruled Ravenshore, the largest city in Jadame (which was not originally a Dark Elf town).
In MM8 they set up the Alliance of Jadame where you have to convince 3 out of 5 Jadame leaders to join you:
Masul the Leader of the Minotaurs,
Sandro of the Necromancers' Guild OR Oscar Tyre of the Clerics of the Sun
Charles Quixote of the Dragon Hunters OR Deftclaw Redreaver of the Dragons.
Dark Elves could also be an alternative creature for Dungeon (replacing either the Beholders or the Medusa), considering that they ally themselves with Minotaurs and possibly even Black Dragons, but I'd like to see them as a faction of their own given that their culture is quite different from that of Nighon.
We do not need to have a proper plot but the HotA team can make a story about the founding of the Necromancers' Guild by Sandro and Thant seen by the viewpoint of the Dark Elves. That or adapt the story of M&M8 into a campaign, which would be cool considering that you would be able to visit several factions from the Dark Elf perspecitve. 1st mission you start with Lizardmen and you have to conquer the Abbandoned Temple (a fortress town), 2nd mission you have your first Dark elf town (Ravenshore) and have to defeat the smugglers and so on.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 29, 2020 05:27 PM |
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Add new Pikeman, Centaur, Gremlin, Medusa, Pixie and Air Elemental specialists. (Not available as default.)
Also make General Kendal, Finneas Vilmar and Ordwald (as a Warlock) available in the map editor.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted March 29, 2020 05:28 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Add new Pikeman, Centaur, Gremlin, Medusa, Pixie and Air Elemental specialists.
Also make General Kendal, Finneas Vilmar and Ordwald (as a Warlock) available in the map editor.
The last three I think are based on other heroes, but I might be wrong.
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BTB
Famous Hero
Moist & Creamy
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posted March 31, 2020 07:17 AM |
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Edited by BTB at 07:18, 31 Mar 2020.
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Something that the HD Mod does that's always been very helpful is making the castle icon a quick-link to a "buy all" creatures interface. I have suggested in the past (and am hoping someone will notice as HD Mod seems to be once again in active development) that a similar shortcut should exist to the building purchase interface from the button right next to it. This would place 95% of the most commonly-performed actions in town in one very convenient location, not to mention the fact that it's very easy for forget where the town hall is on towns you don't play very often.
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