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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 21, 2021 10:37 AM |
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But only protection from fire affects armageddon :-P the other 3 don't have fault and are also bad.
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 21, 2021 10:56 AM |
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P. From Earth is not bad, it protects against Implosion and Meteor Shower.
P. From Air is not bad either, it protects against Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt and Destroy Undead, if Necro.
It's just these Protection spells are usually not your first choice, you probably rather cast Implosion or Chain Lightning yourself, unless facing a hero like Solmyr or Deemer were it could occasionally make sense to cast P. From Air or Earth.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 21, 2021 11:54 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 11:56, 21 Jun 2021.
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Protects partially only vs a single spell when the enemy can cast another. The lost utility for the enemy is very few. If you cast protection from earth they may use water. If you cast protection from water they may use fire. At the end the utility is extremely limited (if cast from hero), even at expert. You waste 1 spell for spells the enemy will now not cast.
Note also it protects only from damage, they can still use mass slow, mass haste, prayer etc. normally.
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Never changing = never improving
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 21, 2021 12:03 PM |
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Yes you are right, but I think the problem is rather that you can cast all damage spells almost as well, without any magic school at all.
Take a look a Basic Slow compared to Expert Slow, it's 14 times better! Basic Implosion and Expert Implosion is almost the same.
To remedy this problem, I was thinking about damage spells costing double mana without the proper magic school, that will make them much less attractive, if you don't have the correct magic school. But there are a few problems with this approach as well...
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2021 04:10 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Advanced level.
(I don't understand why HotA changed the percentages though, they made Armageddon spam even easier now.)
Sorry, but isn't this exactly vice versa? I mean, it's not a very effective strategy to first cast protection from fire, and on the following turn use Arma? On the first turn you're basically casting nothing, and on the following turns you're still doing big damage to your own troops as well. I think you will get better results by using creatures that are immune to the Arma.
Overall, I think the buff was rather good in order to enable the protection spells and making them sometimes useful.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 21, 2021 07:58 PM |
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Sorry but I disagree.
With 75% fire resistance you will not take that much damage from Arma, so if you in the first round cast Mass P. from Fire and then Arma, you will do heavy damage, but only take little yourself.
The P. from Fire buff encourages Arma spam.
Of course the strategy requires you to pick Fire Magic, which is usually not a popular magic school, so that makes it less abuseable.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted June 21, 2021 08:15 PM |
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Yes Phoenix! I laugh 75%. I'm using Fire, if Dungeon, Inferno. A very stupid 75%. Remember Phoenix, if you see opponent casts Protection from Fire. You cast a Dispel. Ok handicap minders play Stronghold, etc then poorly. Fool! All HoMM always have 50%. Ok Now's the best Protection from Fire. OP!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 21, 2021 08:38 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:40, 21 Jun 2021.
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phoenix4ever said:
Yes you are right, but I think the problem is rather that you can cast all damage spells almost as well, without any magic school at all.
Take a look a Basic Slow compared to Expert Slow, it's 14 times better! Basic Implosion and Expert Implosion is almost the same.
To remedy this problem, I was thinking about damage spells costing double mana without the proper magic school, that will make them much less attractive, if you don't have the correct magic school. But there are a few problems with this approach as well...
the problem with this is the might vs magic heroes. imo, it'd be better to nerf damage spells only for might heroes(and for stronger factions, maybe) but then there'd be a way around that, too...
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 22, 2021 06:04 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 22:14, 23 Jun 2021.
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As stated, it's best to cast two armageddons than a protection from fire and then armageddon. Also if you cast prot. from fire your strategy becomes obvious and your opponent can cast to respond too. All in all it's still a bad deal.
Things your opponent can do to completely negate your advantage:
- Anti magic
- Own protection from fire
- Dispel
As well as a number of other things...
Plus Fire is normally considered the worst magic due to lack of utility (compared to haste/slow/prayer), the armageddon only gives a base damage boost while the majority (from your spell power) is unchanged. Equation needs to be altered so that magic expertise modifies end result %, not base damage.
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There is a crime in fire for which all H3 developers must answer and not just HotA. For over 20 years it's obvious Fire Elementals can fly. Their sprite was made for flying!
And yet, nobody gives them the ability to fly. This is an outrage! I demand to see the manager! 
Why, oh why, is this not being fixed? it's not like Fire Elementals are even good, they are probably one of the weakest creatures
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Never changing = never improving
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted June 22, 2021 12:43 PM |
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Pretty sure, Heroes 3 Fire Elemental was based on Marvel character Human Tourch.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 23, 2021 10:47 PM |
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Either make Fire Immune creatures susceptible to positive fire spells or create a new artifact that allows you to cast positive spells on creatures normally immune to them. (I have suggested the artifact before in this thread.)
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 25, 2021 05:02 AM |
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HotA scouting just relealing more hexes is boring and does little for the skill considering in H3 there is no shroud of war.
Reccomendation: Make Scouting upgrade the effects of map resources.
Basic scouting = +1 sight, +15% to chest and resource piles.
Advanced scouting = +2 sight, +30% to chest and resource piles.
Expert scouting = +3 sight, +50% to chest and resource piles.
This % progression is like the one from Archery.
Also there will be very few chests and resource piles at the end.
Scouting bonus is rounded to always give at least +1 from resource piles even if the +15% is insufficient (eg. pile of 5 Mercury).
Map objects affected (gold and resources):
- Chest
- Campfire
- Piles of Wood, Ore, Sulfur, Mercury, Crystal and Gems
- Flotsam
- Sea Chest
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Never changing = never improving
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted June 26, 2021 01:01 AM |
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NimoStar said:
HotA scouting just relealing more hexes is boring and does little for the skill considering in H3 there is no shroud of war.
Reccomendation: Make Scouting upgrade the effects of map resources.
Basic scouting = +1 sight, +15% to chest and resource piles.
Advanced scouting = +2 sight, +30% to chest and resource piles.
Expert scouting = +3 sight, +50% to chest and resource piles.
This % progression is like the one from Archery.
Also there will be very few chests and resource piles at the end.
Scouting bonus is rounded to always give at least +1 from resource piles even if the +15% is insufficient (eg. pile of 5 Mercury).
Map objects affected (gold and resources):
- Chest
- Campfire
- Piles of Wood, Ore, Sulfur, Mercury, Crystal and Gems
- Flotsam
- Sea Chest
Scouting would become an absolutely obligatory skill. You would never want to pick up a chest with a hero that doesn't have the Scouting skill.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 26, 2021 08:11 AM |
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Not really, is 175 extra gold that much? Say, Learning already does this for XP giving you 1150 XP from chest, and people don't pick it. There is something called cost of opportunity in economics. Getting the chest first, is probably worth more than getting the % extra value later.
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Never changing = never improving
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted June 27, 2021 08:53 PM |
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NimoStar said:
HotA scouting just relealing more hexes is boring and does little for the skill considering in H3 there is no shroud of war.
Reccomendation: Make Scouting upgrade the effects of map resources.
Scouting needs no buff imho. Its still a very powerful skill for secondary heroes (even more for heroes with specialty), and the ressources aren't needed anyway since a multiplayer game is won in at max 2 months.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 28, 2021 09:31 AM |
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NimoStar said:
Plus Fire is normally considered the worst magic due to lack of utility (compared to haste/slow/prayer)
Pretty sure Water Magic is considered worst.
Fire has some crazy good spells that can totally change the game (Curse, Berserk, Arma), Water has some mostly meaningless buffs/debuffs.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted June 28, 2021 12:58 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:01, 28 Jun 2021.
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Meaningless? Water Magic might lack for attack spells, But I wouldn't consider spells like Cure, Forgetfulness, Teleport and Prayer to be particularly weak.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted June 28, 2021 02:03 PM |
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Water Magic is great support skill. Mass Bless = Max damage +1
Mass Cure = all enemy curses are removed and restore health
Mass Dispel = remove buffs from both sides(unless you have Sphere, that make you immune to dispel)
Mass Forgetfulness = archers goes into melee
Mass Prayer = It's great all round buff for troops
Expert Clone = you can copy your powerstack to take retaliation/weaken enemy dangerous stack)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 28, 2021 02:17 PM |
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None of those are game defining. Those are nice to have but won't really win you a game. You will rarely see them used outside early neutral creeping (bless in particular) or they don't need Water Magic to work to a satisfying degree (Clone, dispel, heal).
But berserk can win you games that you'd lose otherwise, same with armageddon.
Curse is a spell that turns dragon flies from 2-5 damage creatures to 1-1 damage creatures (72% damage reduction) and griffins from 3-6 to 2-2 (56% damage reduction) and you know what they are ? Yeah, bank guardians. In a bank meta 
Water magic is definitively less useful than fire magic in typical online environment. Fire magic is useful to a degree, heavily dependent on the right spells, whereas Earth Magic is a 100% must and Air magic is very important as well for DD.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted June 29, 2021 09:44 AM |
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Cure removes Curse, along with Slow, Disrupting Ray, Blind, etc.
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