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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 36 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 32 33 34 35 36 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 10, 2018 11:15 AM
Edited by Maurice at 11:26, 10 May 2018.

Gryphon said:
Resurrecting after battle is also an interesting option...don't know how it would work really.


Let's just give some examples:
The First Aid Tent keeps its in-battle healing ability, as it currently exists. On top of that, it allows for post-battle resurrection of fallen units. The idea is that after a battle, not every fallen soldier is dead yet; some are just badly injured and beyond the capability to fight anymore, about to die. The First Aid Tent, however, saves them from the brink of death.

Without the First Aid Tent and without the First Aid skill, no casualties are revived after battle.

The First Aid Skill enables the "free" resurrection of units fallen after battle, for the victor of the battle only (values rounded down):
- At Basic, it resurrects 5% of the fallen units;
- At Advanced, it resurrects 10% of the fallen units;
- At Expert, it resurrects 15% of the fallen units;

Doesn't apply to any units that can't be resurrected through either the Raise Dead spell (Necromancers & Death Knights) or Resurrection spell (all other Heroes).

The First Aid Tent grants for 5% of each fallen unit to get resurrected after the battle in a similar fashion. This would mostly affect low-Tier units as they tend to die in droves.

The First Aid Skill provides a free First Aid Tent whenever it gets destroyed; perhaps only at Advanced or maybe even just Expert? It also increases its durability during combat. Provided the First Aid Tent survives the battle, the First Aid Skill multiplies the resurrection value by its expertise level:
- At Basic, it doubles the Tents effect to 10%;
- At Advanced, it triples the Tents' effect to 15%
- At Expert, it quadruples the Tents' effect to 20%

This amount is added to the Skills' own resurrection value, coming up to a total of 15%, 25% and 35% raised after the battle, respectively.

After the battle, you'd get a pop-up screen with the effects of the First Aid Skill and/or First Aid Tent:

"After winning the battle, your healers get to work on the wounded. They manage to save some lives from certain death!"

Followed by an overview of all units returned to your army.

If the casualty number on the side of the victor is too low to save any unit, this pop up doesn't appear, or maybe with just a short text like this:

"Despite their best efforts, your healers don't manage to save any of the wounded on your side after the battle."

The loser of the battle doesn't get this option, nor gets to use the First Aid Skill and/or First Aid Tent for its post-battle resurrection effect.

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Portus
Portus


Hired Hero
posted May 10, 2018 12:55 PM

Well this, sir, is PERFECT.

Just one question: If the tent is destroyed during battle and you get a new one right after winning it, does it resurrect troops from that battle? I think it should, otherwise it'd be easy to thwart its most useful feature.

Oh, and IMHO the tent shouldn't work on the undead. After all, you can't heal (un)death and they already have Necromancy (which could be somehow fixed to ressemble the after-battle tent effects). Funny thing that it's the artifact available at their blacksmith. I've always disagreed with several of those 3do choices (awful to find ammo carts in freaking hell; I guess it's demonic irony haha). I think you should be able to get:

At castle's: Tent (or even cart, but definitely not ballista)
At rampart's: fine as it is
At tower's: fine as it is
At inferno's: Ballista
At dungeon's: Cart (or Ballista is fine, I guess)
At necropolis': Ballista (for lack of a more suitable option)
At stronghold's: fine as it is
At fortress': Tent and ballista (if the other might faction has two, why shouldn't fortress?)
At conflux's: Cart (tent shouldn't take effect on elementals, and ballista looks too much in a town already OP to me)

Of course, this list has been made considering that ammo cart only provides unlimited ammo. I think I read somewhere that it also supplies spell points and extra map movement, but I don't recall if it was a Wog, a HotA or my own mind's feature.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 10, 2018 04:06 PM

Portus said:
Just one question: If the tent is destroyed during battle and you get a new one right after winning it, does it resurrect troops from that battle? I think it should, otherwise it'd be easy to thwart its most useful feature.


If you limit it to the higher skill Tiers, I'd say it's a good thing to test that. Not allowing it, though, makes it a strategic asset for the enemy to target; I'm a bit torn about it - I think playtesting this functionality should point out what's best.

And as for the First Aid Tent for Necropolis: yeah, a weird choice, never understood that one either.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted May 10, 2018 04:13 PM

Maurice said:
Gryphon said:
Resurrecting after battle is also an interesting option...don't know how it would work really.


Let's just give some examples:
The First Aid Tent keeps its in-battle healing ability, as it currently exists. On top of that, it allows for post-battle resurrection of fallen units. The idea is that after a battle, not every fallen soldier is dead yet; some are just badly injured and beyond the capability to fight anymore, about to die. The First Aid Tent, however, saves them from the brink of death.

Without the First Aid Tent and without the First Aid skill, no casualties are revived after battle.

The First Aid Skill enables the "free" resurrection of units fallen after battle, for the victor of the battle only (values rounded down):
- At Basic, it resurrects 5% of the fallen units;
- At Advanced, it resurrects 10% of the fallen units;
- At Expert, it resurrects 15% of the fallen units;

Doesn't apply to any units that can't be resurrected through either the Raise Dead spell (Necromancers & Death Knights) or Resurrection spell (all other Heroes).

The First Aid Tent grants for 5% of each fallen unit to get resurrected after the battle in a similar fashion. This would mostly affect low-Tier units as they tend to die in droves.

The First Aid Skill provides a free First Aid Tent whenever it gets destroyed; perhaps only at Advanced or maybe even just Expert? It also increases its durability during combat. Provided the First Aid Tent survives the battle, the First Aid Skill multiplies the resurrection value by its expertise level:
- At Basic, it doubles the Tents effect to 10%;
- At Advanced, it triples the Tents' effect to 15%
- At Expert, it quadruples the Tents' effect to 20%

This amount is added to the Skills' own resurrection value, coming up to a total of 15%, 25% and 35% raised after the battle, respectively.

After the battle, you'd get a pop-up screen with the effects of the First Aid Skill and/or First Aid Tent:

"After winning the battle, your healers get to work on the wounded. They manage to save some lives from certain death!"

Followed by an overview of all units returned to your army.

If the casualty number on the side of the victor is too low to save any unit, this pop up doesn't appear, or maybe with just a short text like this:

"Despite their best efforts, your healers don't manage to save any of the wounded on your side after the battle."

The loser of the battle doesn't get this option, nor gets to use the First Aid Skill and/or First Aid Tent for its post-battle resurrection effect.



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Gryphon
Gryphon

Tavern Dweller
posted May 11, 2018 02:10 AM
Edited by Gryphon at 02:15, 11 May 2018.

Maurice said:
The First Aid Skill enables the "free" resurrection of units fallen after battle, for the victor of the battle only (values rounded down):
- At Basic, it resurrects 5% of the fallen units;
- At Advanced, it resurrects 10% of the fallen units;
- At Expert, it resurrects 15% of the fallen units;


This is a pretty good idea. It wouldn't be OP either. But if it doesn't have any effect in battle, it should be indestructible.

Edit: Hadn't noticed that it would keep the healing effect in battle.
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fiorin
fiorin


Adventuring Hero
ctrl + s
posted May 11, 2018 04:29 AM

Gryphon said:
The First Aid Skill enables the "free" resurrection of units fallen after battle, for the victor of the battle only (values rounded down):
- At Basic, it resurrects 5% of the fallen units;
- At Advanced, it resurrects 10% of the fallen units;
- At Expert, it resurrects 15% of the fallen units;

Doesn't apply to any units that can't be resurrected through either the Raise Dead spell (Necromancers & Death Knights) or Resurrection spell (all other Heroes).


I liked very much

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted May 11, 2018 06:49 PM

I may have already made this suggestion but I've been thinking about an artifact that in my opinion would be great. I would call it Pendant of Fire and Ice (but it can be an item, a pair of boots or whatever if found more appealing) and it would give the effects of expert mastery of both Water and Fire (battle spells only).
It should be a relic or even better, there would be a building (appearing only on Lava or Snow) where you could merge the orbs of Fire and Water into it for a significant price.

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stf911
stf911

Tavern Dweller
posted May 12, 2018 06:02 PM
Edited by stf911 at 18:11, 12 May 2018.

Hi there,
Long time lurker, first time poster (not much of a forum guy).
I've been tweaking the numbers in HotA and testing it out for some time. I wanted to make tweaks that didn't change the feel of the game too much, in the spirit of what the HotA team have mostly been doing, while trying not to "optimize the fun out of the game".
As such, here are some of my ideas for improving the variety and enjoyment of the game, though I have to admit I've taken into consideration what a lot of people have been saying on these forums and elsewhere.


NOTE
I wanted Eagle Eye and Scholar to not be overshadowed by Wisdom or reliant on it. Also, I see a lot of people wanting to change Eagle Eye into something else, but I think it's a unique skill for small-medium maps that needs fixing more than changing


EAGLE EYE
40%/50%/60% chance to learn spells of level 2/3/4 cast by the enemy hero, after the battle. Also requires Wisdom to learn level 3+ spells this way (Specialization increases chance by 5% per level)

Issues:
* it is very easy to learn level 1-2 spells without any secondary skills, making Basic Eagle Eye not very useful
* can't learn level 5 spells or adventure map spells
* overly reliant on Wisdom to work well
* low initial spell learning chance, making it even more unreliable early-mid game, precisely when you are supposed to rush learning spells
* you only learn spells after the battle, and only if you win, in a game where the first battles are usually decisive
* you rely on your opponent casting spells to be able to learn spells yourself, which is something your opponent will take advantage of
New Effect:
70% chance to instantly learn spells up to level 3/4/5 cast by enemy heroes or enemy creatures during battle
New Spec.:
70% chance to also learn adventure map spells from enemy heroes casting them within your scouting range

Comments:
* learnable creature spells are only those from spellcasting creatures (Like Ogre Magi's Bloodlust, not Thunderbirds' Lightning Bolt). This way, Eagle Eye becomes less useless on larger maps where it takes a while before you start fighting enemy heroes, because there is a larger chance of these creatures appearing as neutrals.
* the 70% chance and change to specialization also make the Eagle Eye artifacts, as well as the Scouting skill and its artifacts, slightly more desirable


SCHOLAR
Exchange spells with a friendly hero up to levels 2/3/4. Also requires Wisdom to learn level 3+ spells this way, this includes friendly heroes wishing to learn from this one (no specialization in this skill)

Issues:
* it is very easy to learn level 1-2 spells without any secondary skills, making Basic Scholar not very useful
* can't learn/teach level 5 spells
* overly reliant on Wisdom to work well
* it is usually redundant to have more than one hero with this skill
New Effect:
Learn spells from a friendly hero, up to level 3/4/5

Comments:
* the skill's role changes slightly - it's now something you'd want on a secondary hero that's playing catch-up or on your main, if playing with allies
* while the skill is now less versatile (can no longer teach), that also gives it a reason to be chosen on more than one hero, so I think it's for the better


NOTE:
Since Learning is a waste of skill slot, Estates is no fun and defensive heroes mostly have just Statue of the Legion to their name, I put 2 and 2 together and this is what I came up with


ESTATES
Gain 125/250/500 gold per turn (specialization grants an additional 5% gold per level, from that hero)

Issues:
* amount at Basic is negligeable
* it's a skill that's always good on support heroes and always bad on main/secondary heroes (= too black and white when you have the option to get it)
* easy to benefit from a large amount of heroes (8 + garissoned) with this skill, if you get lucky with a witch hut (not fun to play against)
New Effect:
Gain 1000/2500/4000 gold after the end of the week, if garrisoned in a friendly town

Comments
* encourages use of defensive heroes, much like the Legion artifacts, while not being as exploitable as before
* the initial amount is a little on the low end to encourage you to skill up Estates on a few heroes, rather than teach a bunch of them Basic Estates from a Witch Hut then forget about them
* I'm not taking into consideration heroes with the +350 gold per day specialization since I believe they have their place, alongside the +1 rare resource heroes.


LEARNING
Experience gained is increased by 5%/10%/15% (specialization doubles these values)
Issues:
* essentially a waste of skill slot (does not help you rush early game or become a powerhouse late game. It does however make you arguably weaker for picking this skill instead of any other)
New Effect:
Receive 300/650/1000 experience after the end of each week, if garrisoned in a friendly town

Comments:
* you could get to around level 10/14/17 (add ~3 levels if the hero has specialization) in 12 months just from this, which should be not a lot, but just enough. It should be balanced, since if you start wandering to kill stacks for exp, you might not get to a town by the end of the week.
* the ability to level up while staying in one place enables you to pick the skills you always wanted for a defensive hero, but couldn't, because he was always level 2-3 tops.
* players will end up with more higher level heroes as the game progresses, meaning there will potentially be more battles that are fun


NOTE:
Mysticism is a good idea, but implemented poorly (much like the other skills I've mentioned). I've always seen it as "Intelligence for the Knowledge-impaired", so I've made changes to reflect that


MYSTICISM
Regenerate 1/2/3 additional spell points per turn (specialization doubles these values)

Issues:
* is comparable with Intelligence in role, but Intelligence is objectively better and also scales with Knowledge
* after early game, and even then, it's usefulness is outshined by traveling a short distance to spending the night in a town with a magic guild or visiting a mana well or similar object
New Effect:
Regenerate additional spell points equal to 50%/100%/150% of your Power per turn, rounded up

Comments:
* high-power low-knowledge casters can now use this skill to hopefully get in the same league as low-power high-knowledge casters
* where Intelligence will ensure you can spend a lot of mana in one battle, Mysticism will ensure you can spend some mana in multiple battles. I think it's cool that they don't clash or make you overpowered if taken together.


NOTE:
First Aid, Artillery and, to a lesser extent, Ballistics are not as useful or reliable as they could be and often get passed up for Magic Schools that would do the same job and more. First Aid gets the least love out of the 3 though
EXTRA NOTE:
the Cure spell should also be tweaked to heal like 15 health at most, given it can be cast en masse, so that it keeps its role of curing negative effects from friendly units, but does not outshine First Aid in healing power


FIRST AID
You receive manual control of the first aid tent and it now heals 50/75/100 health (specialization increases health healed by 5% per level)

First Aid Tent:
150 health and heals 25 health of a single stack at the end of the turn

Issues:
* it is at its best when you only have one creature stack of tier 6-7, and even then it's circumstantial. In larger battles, Artillery does a better job at keeping your forces alive by killing more enemy units
* having just one target to heal means that the enemy can safely plan out their attack so that you won't get much benefit from healing
* the tent itself is very fragile, so it will often get destroyed, leaving you with the skill that does nothing otherwise and forcing you to go out of your way to buy a new one
New Effect:
You receive manual control of the First Aid Tent and if destroyed, it is restored after combat. It can also be used 0/1/2 additional times per turn (can choose different targets or the same one multipel times)
New Tent:
200 health and heals 75 health of a single stack at the end of the turn
New Spec.:
the First Aid tent also resurrects once-living units after winning a battle (units with lowest max HP get treated first), if it was not destroyed during that time, by an amount depending on your First Aid skill (75 health / 150 health / 225 health)

Comments:
* as an addendum, Basic Artillery should also restore the Ballista/Cannon and Basic Ballistics should also restore the Ammo Cart (I'm not gonna go into further detail about those 2 skills though)
* it's still not as strong as artillery, but better at handling attrition due to fewer troops lost per battle. This makes it great early on, but only slightly useful in the following months, depending on map and play style

@Maurice
Liked what you proposed in your earlier posts and this is my take on it. I figured First Aid and the tent were meant to be used in battle as a means of preventing losses. To stay true to that, I felt the best way was to separate the resurrection from the skill and make it the specialization



NOTE:
Tactics performs too well for its own good and its initial role of offering you the opportunity to rearrange your troops turns into an opportunity to get within melee range on the first turn


TACTICS
Rearrange your units just before combat within the first 3/5/7 hex rows of your hero

Issues:
* at basic level, it allows you to retreat before combat. rearrange your units and block vulnerable units. Advanced and Expert are just icing on the cake
* at Expert, all but your slowest units can get in melee range on the first turn, making enemy archers (and implicitly any Archery skill) almost worthless. This makes the skill more useful for getting into range rather than re-positioning your units, which is not its main role.
New Effect:
Rearrange your units just before combat within the first 1/2/4 hex rows of your hero

Comments:
* Basic: you can retreat before combat and re-position your units on the first line; Adv: you can block small creatures with other small creatures, but fat creatures get no love; Expert: you can block any creature with any other creature. Seems more evened out and focused this way
* fat and small creatures are further differentiated, which adds another, albeit small, layer to combat


As you can see, I like to keep the mechanics simple and clear-cut enough to memorize. This way, I believe, they can be easily recalled at crucial points in the game where you have to make a strategic decision. Not sure if it's a flaw or an asset, but there you have it
I've seen a lot of great ideas in this thread so I'm really curious what you guys think

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 12, 2018 08:50 PM

The best skills/talents are always passive ones... Imho it's kinda useless to push skills like resistance (HotA) into the PvP direction at all. That wouldn't nerf any "must have" skills compared to "nice to have" skills. What I want to say... there are only a few really powerful talents in the game, the goal should be to bring all other talents to a equal level to have "agony of choice"...

As for estate 4k gold is OP for just one turn in town, garrisoned the whole week maybe for an amount of at max 1500gold.

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portus
portus


Hired Hero
posted May 13, 2018 06:54 PM

Hi guys, quick question: About that timeline on top of VCMI battle screens showing the sequence of creature turns, is that sth we can enable in HotA or HD mod?
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trenbolone
trenbolone

Tavern Dweller
posted May 18, 2018 09:26 PM

What about new city to HOTA i think this will make a lot of change in game ?

(Im not really fan of "rebuild" skills, dont know why You guys want this so bad)

I allways want to ad "Forge" to HOTA but what i know they didnt want to rellease the city and also they cancelld this.

Maybe ther is still hope to ad this city its so good to make Might and Magic story complete.From what i know Kastore was not include in all Heroes 3 games,so it will be a good story line that will make new expansion and next patch to HOTA like 2.0

"The Heavenly Forge"

In new campaning Kastore made a big army of goblins with blasters,Ogres with rocket launcher and all that stuff. In campaning we will be play first as Kastore and army and next we will be defenders of Enroth. So i end like we will include Armagedon Blade as its was as orginal and also new artifact.

I think this will make the best thing to game.

And also i know that most of You and trully fans want to make this City to game

(Well if maybe not Forge maybe some Forge-like city.We heave a open story line with Kastore and all bad guys.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 18, 2018 10:15 PM

In case you don't know, making a new town is not exactly easy. Next is the very mixed reception the Forge concept got. Personally I don't like Forge at all, but I would like to see other towns such as an egyptian inspired town, a traditional japanese town or an ice based town, but any town can easily take years to make. The fact HotA Crew already managed to add Cove and new heroes and creatures is like magic to me and they still have'nt found the perfect balance for the town yet as it feels quite stronger than the other towns. So you probably should'nt expect Forge any time soon.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 19, 2018 10:18 AM

trenbolone said:
What about new city to HOTA i think this will make a lot of change in game ?

(Im not really fan of "rebuild" skills, dont know why You guys want this so bad)

I allways want to ad "Forge" to HOTA but what i know they didnt want to rellease the city and also they cancelld this.

Maybe ther is still hope to ad this city its so good to make Might and Magic story complete.From what i know Kastore was not include in all Heroes 3 games,so it will be a good story line that will make new expansion and next patch to HOTA like 2.0

"The Heavenly Forge"

In new campaning Kastore made a big army of goblins with blasters,Ogres with rocket launcher and all that stuff. In campaning we will be play first as Kastore and army and next we will be defenders of Enroth. So i end like we will include Armagedon Blade as its was as orginal and also new artifact.

I think this will make the best thing to game.

And also i know that most of You and trully fans want to make this City to game

(Well if maybe not Forge maybe some Forge-like city.We heave a open story line with Kastore and all bad guys.


We can play with an outstanding Forge in VCMI and sometime we will also be able in ERA when Fred releases his version of it. It looks like Hota crew rather put their effort into competitive multiplayer, game mechanics tweaks and 'balance'. They were excellent candidate to give justice to the Forge and original NWC vision but sadly they don't seem interested in that any longer.
____________
You need to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It will calm you down. -Blizzardboy

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trenbolone
trenbolone

Tavern Dweller
posted May 19, 2018 11:24 AM

I know that make a new city is huge stuff,But they already heave a lot of Forge city like Town screen was full complete. Tier 1-4 Was almost complete. HOTA team its great candidate to Forge and thats is trully fact and deep in my hearth i dream about Forge relleased that will be trully something

You towns ideas like Egyptian,Ice based town,Japanese town sounds really boring and dont suits well in MaM world. Forge its the city thats give us something thath we didnt ever see and its orginal. Also there is concepts of NWC old graphics and stuff.City was complete and its make easier to add this besides to add something new then you heave a lot of new work to do in.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted May 19, 2018 11:28 AM

Galaad said:
It looks like Hota crew rather put their effort into competitive multiplayer, game mechanics tweaks and 'balance'. They were excellent candidate to give justice to the Forge and original NWC vision but sadly they don't seem interested in that any longer.


I wonder where this information is coming from? I'm personally not expecting Forge any time soon. Remember that making a new town is a massive project, and it's something that you simply publish all at once, not piece by piece.

I would rather see Forge as an ultimate goal for Hota team, as it's something that is the most known of things that was planned to the game. So if the Forge plans were scrapped, that's kinda odd to say the least.

Sure, they could publish pictures or plans for their recent work of of any new town(s), but with recent discussions in mind, I'm not surprised that they won't do that.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 19, 2018 11:47 AM

From the general Hota thread. There was a time people were asking a lot about new towns to which they replied it was not on their priority list. Then you've seen recent posts about balancing. Also, there has been some work on Forge by the crew, but this is very old now.
____________
You need to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It will calm you down. -Blizzardboy

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trenbolone
trenbolone

Tavern Dweller
posted May 19, 2018 01:21 PM

Ther is some concept arts and units in this page. Looks whery nice to me

http://heroes3towns.com/?town=forge&ver=2&page=arts

Dont know why this right opurtinity of team about balance of skills its hard so when all game has a lot of RNG stuff

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2018 04:34 PM

"The Heavenly Forge"

In new campaning Kastore made a big army of goblins with blasters,Ogres with rocket launcher and all that stuff. In campaning we will be play first as Kastore and army and next we will be defenders of Enroth. So i end like we will include Armagedon Blade as its was as orginal and also new artifact.

I think this will make the best thing to game.

And also i know that most of You and trully fans want to make this City to game

(Well if maybe not Forge maybe some Forge-like city.We heave a open story line with Kastore and all bad guys.



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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 19, 2018 04:41 PM

Well, town could be optional. For those who care about the Might and Magic lore at large.
____________
You need to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It will calm you down. -Blizzardboy

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2018 06:01 PM

Galaad said:
Well, town could be optional. For those who care about the Might and Magic lore at large.


May God protect HOTA from this "wogifycation" you suggested and from any other similar Wog-like ideas that could tarnish this gem of a game.
Amen.

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