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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 ... 67 68 69 70 71 ... 80 100 120 140 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2019 01:35 AM

 As a matter of of fact, any game that is not perfectly symmetric is unbalanced by design, i.e. there exists a strategy that will make one player win significantly more often that the other unless that player will use according or same set of heroes, units etc. E.g., I don't think I know any complex video game, as HoMM is, where pro scene is not degenerate to a great extent and balance becomes an issue. So when you say that some game is balanced, you're just blissfully uninformed and can enjoy the game to it's full extent, unlike experienced players who are doomed to use heroes they don't like, neither visually nor mechanically.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2019 09:21 AM
Edited by Lth3 at 09:32, 16 Apr 2019.

balance in the sense that no one strategy or method of play will be able to be used to abuse opponent. or one town is always stronger

and not in the sense that every aspect of the game will be equal lol

that is some form of toxic feminism having its effect on society and people's thinking

people should straighten it out in their heads that luck factor, positioning, errors made by player and ability to predict opp, your strategy and next moves is what will make you win games. and not if Eagle Eye hero pops up in your tavern or any other nonsense. if you see in first few levels that it isn't going well leveling up a hero - dump it and start leveling another one

this is part of the game - deal with it. some heroes like Eagle Eye blobs are weaker by design

don't get me wrong, even if Eagle Eye gonna be reworked - those heroes still gonna be the weakest - they may be good scouts and that's it

this is strategy game and not some kind of cosplayish role playing game like some people tend to imagine. they really need to come to online lobby and get spanked some hard truth and maybe learn a thing or two to help see clearer that their ways can be flawed - and most likely will be flawed a hundred more times in the future, until they reach expertise and understanding of the game which will let them see past preconceived notions based on their limited understanding of the game and possibilities in it. unless they will close down and stick to their close-minded beliefs. this is just like religion. and applies to many areas in life

thanks and see you in lobby

RerryR said:
If you mean why people still bother to post suggestions in the Hota Suggestion thread, then I agree with you 100% because none of the proposed ideas is ever implemented. For me, it seems like a waste of time.


my suggestion about making ranged units able to use melee was implemented actually. that was about 3 years ago. maybe a coincidence, but is also naive to think all ones ideas are original and not anybody else have thought about it before

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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2019 01:16 PM
Edited by AlfWithCake at 20:11, 16 Apr 2019.

I do agree with you, and I never said each game whould have perfect balance with 50% winrate on every strategy. My first point was, that games are always unbalanced, my second was that all competetive video games have some meta strategies, that're better in some regard than others, not necessarily funnier to play. I worded my "one strategy wins significatly more often than the other" sentence wrong, of course I don't think that if you delete all your heroes and creatures on turn one you should win equally often as if you didn't But, for instance, if you want to go for mage skills instead of pure warrior, some wouldn't like to either completely murder warrior or being ruined by him. But still equal winrate would be nice to have, though impossible. I don't consider this toxic feminism, rather an ideal AND working communism ^^

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2019 01:32 PM

what is the problem with meta strategies if both players can use it? if you can't use it it means you are not skilled enough

if a map or template is designed to be able to utilize different strategies - where is the sense in opting out of using them?

pick a map where it would not be possible - and there you go. a strategically-depleted "balanced" map that caters to your likes and ways of going about the game - meaning balance to you when the map is not too complicated or difficult. going at the pace you are able to go

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 16, 2019 11:19 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 23:34, 16 Apr 2019.

RerryR said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
I dunno why some ppl still talk about balance issues...

If you mean why people still bother to post suggestions in the Hota Suggestion thread, then I agree with you 100% because none of the proposed ideas is ever implemented. For me, it seems like a waste of time. [...]



Erm well no... I've posted some suggestions here that went live or are in planning. Witch hut choice for example (also posted and wished by much more ppl, other than me)... along with a rebalance for Conflux heroes (wrote some posts here about that topic, afaik it's planned now). Spell update, Rebalance for some skills like EE, Myst, e.g.. (in planning). I personally hope for more Artifacts, that's one of the main flaws on G maps in case of seer huts.

I would have to check old posts from some years ago. But as far as I recall some thing like the cost for buildings in tower also were lowered, same goes for Fortress and Stronghold balance and these were also suggestions but I may be wrong.

Eagle Eye will be changed... it just takes some time... we'll see how it works out. Some skills like EE, Myst etc. are from the original HoMM1 and a 1:1 copy of it! Thats why they are kinda obsolete in HoMM3, coz the numbers in HoMM3 are quite higher than in HoMM1+2.

HoMM3 still is a CLASSIC game, kinda all games from the 90s and early 2000s were "balanced" that way. I don't see a problem with it. When I think back how the whole M&M games were balanced or the whole Wizardry series. Still love them how they are... HoMM3 is kinda the same and compared to M&M and Wiz it's super balanced.

I agree on the Might vs Magic split and hope the Magic rebalance update will deal with it.

The rest of the complaiments are in most case caused by the factor of randomness. Thats why the new Resistance is well as it is... even now ppl complain about this stuff again and want back a snowty and kinda useless skill nobody would really pick. Same goes for "inbalanced" spells and artifacts. Artifacts are banned with tournament rules same goes for spells. Spellupdate will deal with the rest. Armageddon'S damage was also lowered in one of the last updates.


€dit:
I forgot one of the biggest content updates: the online lobby for PvP games, and a gamewide balance for it was also suggested by me long before it went live, and yet we have it. Dunno if other ppl also suggested it, but I mostly posted "Guild Wars 1" as a good example how PvP works at best. Maybe I was lucky that suggestions went live but also possible that the staff still read posts here.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 17, 2019 12:42 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:43, 17 Apr 2019.

P4R4D0X0N said:
I personally hope for more Artifacts, that's one of the main flaws on G maps in case of seer huts.

About this, one thing I believe could be done was to make Seer's Huts to ask preferably for other things then artifacts, like primary and secondary skills expertise, creatures or resources.
That way important level 1 artifacts wouldn't became unique so often and the quests wouldn't be so linear (i.e. artifact at 124,44,0 goes to seer's hut at 67,129,0).
____________

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted April 17, 2019 09:50 AM

bloodsucker said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
I personally hope for more Artifacts, that's one of the main flaws on G maps in case of seer huts.

About this, one thing I believe could be done was to make Seer's Huts to ask preferably for other things then artifacts, like primary and secondary skills expertise, creatures or resources.
That way important level 1 artifacts wouldn't became unique so often and the quests wouldn't be so linear (i.e. artifact at 124,44,0 goes to seer's hut at 67,129,0).


not gonna happen, because they give creatures themselves

besides, it doesn't require combo artifacts

maybe resources, maybe. but numbers has to be in the hundreds

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 17, 2019 02:23 PM

Lth3 said:
besides, it doesn't require combo artifacts

But can make Runes or Hideous Mask unique, for instance. Not terrible in MP, where you keep artifacts together but I often have more then one fighting hero and lower the moral of neutrals by one turns fights predictable...
____________

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 17, 2019 05:08 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 18:41, 17 Apr 2019.

bloodsucker said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
I personally hope for more Artifacts, that's one of the main flaws on G maps in case of seer huts.

About this, one thing I believe could be done was to make Seer's Huts to ask preferably for other things then artifacts, like primary and secondary skills expertise, creatures or resources.
That way important level 1 artifacts wouldn't became unique so often and the quests wouldn't be so linear (i.e. artifact at 124,44,0 goes to seer's hut at 67,129,0).


Yeah I also posted a suggestion that another artifact like currency could be used and replaced for seer artifacts. You may use this currency the same way as artifacts but you don't get any benefits wielding them like artifacts do. You also have no need offer an artifact at all to the seer, so you keep all your artifacts and never have a conflict with offering compared to the abilies of the artifact. This way the artifact pool is seperated from the token pool that could be unique to seers.

Lets say coins (I belive I used coins in my suggestion)

-Red Lion coin
-Frozen Serpent Coin
-Gold Dubloon
-Copper Penny
-[...]

Let's say add 20-30 of these and everything is fine for seer huts, you have a bigger artifact pool while its not limited to artifacts anymore.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 17, 2019 08:13 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:

Yeah I also posted a suggestion that another artifact like currency could be used and replaced for seer artifacts. You may use this currency the same way as artifacts but you don't get any benefits wielding them like artifacts do. You also have no need offer an artifact at all to the seer, so you keep all your artifacts and never have a conflict with offering compared to the abilies of the artifact. This way the artifact pool is seperated from the token pool that could be unique to seers.

Lets say coins (I belive I used coins in my suggestion)

-Red Lion coin
-Frozen Serpent Coin
-Gold Dubloon
-Copper Penny
-[...]

Let's say add 20-30 of these and everything is fine for seer huts, you have a bigger artifact pool while its not limited to artifacts anymore.


That's a really interesting idea. I personally never finish the quests that require you to turn in an artifact. Sometimes the seer wants a valuable artifact that you don't want to part with. Like what bloodsucker said, asking for different things would stop the quests from being so linear and add some variety.

Your coin idea is also really unique? So you would use one of these "coins" instead of exchanging the artifact at the Seer's Hut? Is a single coin worth one artifact? Or are more powerful artifacts worth multiple coins? And I'm assuming that aside from their value to the seer, the coins are utterly worthless in anything else? No stat boosts, no secondary effects? They are just strictly coins? Or would these coins be considered artifacts as well and give stat boosts and have secondary effects?  

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 17, 2019 08:58 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 21:09, 17 Apr 2019.

Oddball13579 said:

Your coin idea is also really unique? So you would use one of these "coins" instead of exchanging the artifact at the Seer's Hut? Is a single coin worth one artifact? Or are more powerful artifacts worth multiple coins? And I'm assuming that aside from their value to the seer, the coins are utterly worthless in anything else? No stat boosts, no secondary effects? They are just strictly coins? Or would these coins be considered artifacts as well and give stat boosts and have secondary effects?  


In one of my old posts I also introduced the option to upgrade coins if I recall correctly. Black markets could benefit from it also marketplaces where you could buy and upgrade them. But imho this would lead to something like mithril does to WoG. But yeah they are kinda worthless to the rest of the game, just used for seers and blocking one slot in your artifact inventory when you carry them.

The mainpoint of the idea so far was to seperate the artifacts pool from seers to have all artifacts in bigger numbers on G-Maps. When I play a G map, in most case treasure and minor artifacts are much more rare than set artifacts (obviously)... Necklaces were only once on the whole G map, same goes for Speculum and other artifacts used for seer hut exclusively. While in average one or two artifacts wasn't included in the seer's random pool and were omnipresent. One map I got like 20+ hideous masks, coz all other artifacts were seer exclusive.
Thats the reason why I would add currencies in the first place, it's easy to implement (you just have to adjust the seer behaviour ans spawn for artifacts, just 2 variables connected) and it's a quality of live change to the game.

the other solution is to extend the artifact pool excessively. Adding trash artifacts like "Rabbit's Foot" and others. Mainpost is here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1418933#focus But anyway... Artifacts and especially new ones with new mechanics are overdue imho. We need much more stuff, adding new possiblities to the game or allowing new strategies.

too bad I still can't update my post 'coz of the 1 year rule. :/

€dit: Something different

A new category for relic -> relic (weaker ones) and legendaries (strong relics), legendaries are banned with tournament rules

Admiral's Hat
Angel Wings -> moved to legendary
Angelic Alliance -> moved to legendary
Armageddon's Blade -> moved to legendary
Armor of the Damned -> moved to legendary
Boots of Levitation
Boots of Polarity
Bow of the Sharpshooter -> moved to legendary
Celestial Necklace of Bliss
Cloak of the Undead King -> moved to legendary
Cornucopia -> moved to legendary
Crown of Dragontooth
Dragon Scale Armor
Elixir of Life -> moved to legendary
Endless Sack of Gold -> moved to legendary
Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment -> moved to legendary
Lion's Shield of Courage -> moved to legendary
Orb of Inhibition -> moved to legendary
Orb of Vulnerability -> moved to legendary
Power of the Dragon Father -> moved to legendary
Ring of the Magi -> moved to legendary
Sandals of the Saint
Sea Captain's Hat
Sentinel's Shield
Spellbinder's Hat
Statue of Legion -> moved to legendary
Sword of Judgement -> moved to legendary
Thunder Helmet
Titan's Cuirass
Titan's Gladius
Titan's Thunder -> moved to legendary
Tome of Air
Tome of Earth
Tome of Fire
Tome of Water
Vial of Dragon Blood
Wizard's Well -> moved to legendary

well... we need much more relics Posted a lot in my first post

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 17, 2019 09:20 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 21:22, 17 Apr 2019.

I have also thought about a Legendary tier and I think we should definitely add Shackles of War and Horn of the Abyss to that list.
I don't really feel like Endless Sack of Gold should be a legendary though and perhaps not Orb of Vulnerability either.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 17, 2019 10:23 PM

I just copied the list of Relics in... so yeah Shackles are missing and vulnurablity is kinda powerful vs dragons.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 17, 2019 10:31 PM

Actually Shackles should probably be the only Legendary+ artifact or just downright banned. It makes you able to eliminate enemy heroes and take all their artifacts, what is more powerful than that?
Yeah Orb of Vulnerability is powerful, but it can also be a liability...

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 17, 2019 10:49 PM

Okay in case of Vulnurablity it's okay, but I dunno if relic is the correct tier for it. Anyway... Angel Wings, same as 1/2 of the heavenly enlightment set should be on that list. +6 to all attributes is so damn overpowered, while on the same tier are +6 to ONE attribute.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 17, 2019 11:13 PM

I agree with everything else you posted.
Nah, the worst relics are +8, still a long way to +24 though.

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crack__19
crack__19

Tavern Dweller
posted April 18, 2019 11:14 AM

Powerful neutral enemies often flee when faced with CPU-controlled heroes that are much weaker, I think it can be a bug.

I have seen 80 titans flee when facing an AI controlled hero with the 1-2 week troop of the castle.

I hope hota team can fix this.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 18, 2019 02:26 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:36, 18 Apr 2019.

phoenix4ever said:
Actually Shackles should probably be the only Legendary+ artifact or just downright banned.


Man, you are so short-sighted sometimes. Sal already explained once about one of your comments, that in Heroes II people were basically fighting with Hit & Run so Shackles were a solution to the problem.
With rules forbidden, it is now a lesser problem for MP but if you play custom maps (that aren't even, like your masterpiece) and you have fought a battle where you started with one hundred Archangels and your enemy with one thousand Titans you surely don't want him to flee the moment his Titans become less then one hundred...
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 18, 2019 03:33 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 16:05, 18 Apr 2019.

There are other ways to prevent hit and run, than Shackles.
Call me short-sighted if you want, I think Shackles is THE most powerful artifact in Heroes 3 and in my masterpiece map (you said that, not I ) I have actually banned Shackles.

If you take a look at the HotA map The Alliance, you can find Shackles guarded by 20 (from day 1, this number will grow of course.) savage Haspids, on native terrain, that never flees!  
On another little island the Shackles lie completely free, without any guardians!
That's quite weird, it's like they could'nt decide if it should be guarded extremely heavily or just a free gift for the first visitor.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 18, 2019 04:03 PM

Hota is oriented multiplayer, and in their conception there is no ambush option, so shackles worth nothing. Why make relic an artifact with no purpose.

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