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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 ... 69 70 71 72 73 ... 80 100 120 140 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted April 22, 2019 10:58 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 22:59, 22 Apr 2019.

Salamandre said:
Well ok, but what can be the consequences, did you think at?

Once you recruit the native hero, does another native have to replace in that town? If yes, that would be a nightmare, granted that you can have up to 50 towns on the map, how to deal?

And if another native has to replace, that boosts the chances of getting Tazar or Crag - or whoever you prefer playing - from 1/140 to 1/15. That's a big thing.


It always depends on chance granted, but for Tazar or Crag you would still need Stronghold or Fortress in the first place. The pool should be shared imho. -> Primary cities and secondary cities, secondary would share the same pool for that week. But this would also mean, that red has a big advantage in that case. Hard to tell if this would be a good solution. Anyway 1/15 is just 6.66% if it comes to math. Let's come back to one of my last suggestions:

P4R4D0X0N said:
I would like some "inbetween" classes... 1/2 the amount of the other both classes (~5 in total, maybe implemented in steps), mixed skillpool, primary skills -> new attribute gain

some examples:
Castle: Knight, Cleric, "Paladin"
Rampart: Ranger, Druid, "Warrior"
Tower: Alchemist, Wizard, "Archer"
Inferno: Demoniac, Heretic, "Apostate"
Necropolis: Dread Knight, Necromancer, "Vampire"
Dungeon: Overlord, Warlock, "Bladedancer"
Stronghold: Barbarian, Battle Mage, "Gladiator"
Fortress: Beastmaster, Witch, "Runecaster"
Conflux: Planeswalker, Elementalist, "Enchanter"
Cove: Captain, Navigator, "Rogue"

New secondary skills, maybe restrictions aswell. Some of these classes would be nice for the magic balance update imho and also leaves some room for new/better combinations aswell as a mix between might and magic heroes, like I said "inbetween" classes. If it was for me -> might heroes are unable to learn wisdom, magic types, magic heroes unable to learn some might skills while inbetween heroes may learn partial a mix, individually. primary statpoint split would be a mix of both. It furthermore expands the characterpool and some more potential for prisons.


In that constellation the character pool would be extended in the first place with at least 4 additional heroes per town, maybe even more. This is also a change for big maps... "G" maps lack heroes. IF anyone plays them at all.


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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2019 03:59 AM

And Idea I would like to see is to be able to do a combat simulation from the distance during game.
Just to give an example, that you can Ctrl click with current hero a wandering stat(Even if you are far away), the computer assumes worse case scenario (for example 19 units in a pack) and you get autocombat results for that, this would help new players to get faster over the barrier of entry in the game.
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fiorin
fiorin


Promising
Famous Hero
☠️
posted April 23, 2019 04:33 PM

Pollo2002 said:
And Idea I would like to see is to be able to do a combat simulation from the distance during game.
Just to give an example, that you can Ctrl click with current hero a wandering stat(Even if you are far away), the computer assumes worse case scenario (for example 19 units in a pack) and you get autocombat results for that, this would help new players to get faster over the barrier of entry in the game.


But in this way you always know if can win or lose a battle. Loses on battlefield are part of the game. Just battle when you know you gonna win for sure, theres no risks.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 23, 2019 09:42 PM

fiorin said:
Pollo2002 said:
And Idea I would like to see is to be able to do a combat simulation from the distance during game.
Just to give an example, that you can Ctrl click with current hero a wandering stat(Even if you are far away), the computer assumes worse case scenario (for example 19 units in a pack) and you get autocombat results for that, this would help new players to get faster over the barrier of entry in the game.


But in this way you always know if can win or lose a battle. Loses on battlefield are part of the game. Just battle when you know you gonna win for sure, theres no risks.

Exactly. The learning curve for this game is supposed to be somewhat steep. And like firorin said, loses from combat are part of the game. You are supposed to be careful with your armies, and usually when you are still learning, always overestimate the enemies strength. That will make you more cautious.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 23, 2019 11:19 PM

More snow covered objects specially the other powerups and the Tower dwellings.
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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2019 02:45 PM

fiorin said:
But in this way you always know if can win or lose a battle. Loses on battlefield are part of the game. Just battle when you know you gonna win for sure, theres no risks.


Sadly i don't think this is the case for many reasons, but i wont go there, instead i'm going to say that if this is true, the better. That is the goal.
I don-t find  "Knowing if you can win a fight" an interesting part of the game or skill to test, it seems a random test of skill that is not interesting at least to me, and certainly to many people i seem to introduce to the game.
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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2019 04:11 PM

Playing RoE campaigns or Heroes Chronicles is the best introduce to the game!
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 24, 2019 08:29 PM

Pollo2002 said:
I don-t find  "Knowing if you can win a fight" an interesting part of the game or skill to test, it seems a random test of skill that is not interesting at least to me, and certainly to many people i seem to introduce to the game.

This is a strategy game. It is supposed to tests your skills. Plus, HoMM3 was built in the time when games, even on easy, were difficult.

I don't really know what else can be added that would not take away from the overall experience. Wandering creatures on the map give you a text range, Few, Pack, Horde, etc. If you know the amount of creatures that relates to the range given you know if you can win or lose. Plus HotA literally gives you the range when you hover/right click on the stack. For example, it'll say Lots of Wolf Raiders (20-49). It is then up to you to determine what strength that creature (what level) it is, and if your army is strong enough to defeat it. Learning the level, strengths, weaknesses, and overall combat capability of Wandering Stacks and Town Creatures is part of the learning experience of that game.

As for enemy heroes and their army strength. You are just going to have to learn what the creatures in the enemy's army are and how strong they are.

avatar said:
Playing RoE campaigns or Heroes Chronicles is the best introduce to the game!

I'd say playing Chronicles is a good way to ease into the game.  

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2019 04:02 PM

Oddball13579 said:

This is a strategy game. It is supposed to tests your skills. Plus, HoMM3 was built in the time when games, even on easy, were difficult.



I don't know what you are trying to say exactly here, but with that mentality lets remove all UI improvements, because it test the skill to do things fast with terrible UI. Let's add that in order to research magic spells yo have to beat tetris at level 29, but that-s a skill, and before buying units you have to solve a complex mathematic problem because that-s a skill.

Let's also remove the feedback in hota where you can mouse over a unit and let be know how many units you will kill because thats a skill and lets remove being able to see where your heroes will be in 2 or 3 days because thats a skill.

Clearly you will be opposed to at least some of those ideas because not all skill testing is equally interesting.
Knowing the power level of a stack of wandering units is too me an uninteresting test of skill comparable to test the ability to play perfect Three men's morris.
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 25, 2019 10:02 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 23:18, 25 Apr 2019.

Pollo2002 said:
I don't know what you are trying to say exactly here, but with that mentality lets remove all UI improvements, because it test the skill to do things fast with terrible UI. Let's add that in order to research magic spells yo have to beat tetris at level 29, but that-s a skill, and before buying units you have to solve a complex mathematic problem because that-s a skill.

Now you aren't making any sense.

Pollo2002 said:
Let's also remove the feedback in hota where you can mouse over a unit and let be know how many units you will kill because thats a skill

Never noticed this feature actually. So okay go ahead.

Pollo2002 said:
lets remove being able to see where your heroes will be in 2 or 3 days because thats a skill.

I wouldn't really call that a skill.


Pollo2002 said:
Knowing the power level of a stack of wandering units is too me an uninteresting test of skill

I've said it multiple times already, but you seem to keep missing it. HotA gives you the range of a Wandering Stack not the exact amount. Do you really need to know the exact amount of a Wandering Stack if the range is given?

Edit: Wandering Stack Range Example
I just booted up HotA to get this image to help prove my point.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 26, 2019 01:09 AM

What is your point?
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 26, 2019 03:44 AM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 03:48, 26 Apr 2019.

Pollo2002 said:
What is your point?

To which are you referring to? I made several points.

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nordos
nordos


Known Hero
posted April 26, 2019 12:03 PM

Oddball13579 said:

Pollo2002 said:
Knowing the power level of a stack of wandering units is too me an uninteresting test of skill

I've said it multiple times already, but you seem to keep missing it. HotA gives you the range of a Wandering Stack not the exact amount. Do you really need to know the exact amount of a Wandering Stack if the range is given?

Edit: Wandering Stack Range Example
I just booted up HotA to get this image to help prove my point.



Okay, let me first of all ignore half of your response (I am sorry for that), but I wantedd to simply note that you are misunderstanding his point.
He doesn't want the exact numbers in a stack (its a spell, right? Vision?). He wants a simulatedd combat where the maximum amount of units is taken into acount. So, if a few (1-4) Dragons are on the map, the autocombat should set the amount fo Dragons in that stack to 4 and then proceed to give the result - all the while your hero is nowhere there, so tzhat you can save the amount of time you would need to travel.

Now I am not judging it. In my personal opinion, the number range is already sufficient. Especially the autocombat is a nice addition and saves me a lot of time against trivial stacks. To begin with I do think that the amount of work for tthat is just far too high (exact numbers could actually be doable, but as you did say, that would be spoiling it). All in all, it would be nice for the very new players, yet something that you can pick up soon enough. There are always saves you can use if you want to try your mettle against something you are unsure to win. If you consider that as 'cheating' or whatnot, then I think that the other option would be 'cheating' as well?

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 26, 2019 08:23 PM

nordos said:
He doesn't want the exact numbers in a stack (its a spell, right? Vision?).

Visions! Thank you! I was going insane. I knew there was a way to do it, but I could not remember what it was to save a life.

nordos said:
I wanted to simply note that you are misunderstanding his point...He wants a simulated combat where the maximum amount of units is taken into account. So, if a few (1-4) Dragons are on the map, the autocombat should set the amount of Dragons in that stack to 4 and then proceed to give the result - all the while your hero is nowhere there, so that you can save the amount of time you would need to travel.

Ahhh now I see. But why? Why do we need to be able to do auto combat from a distance? Why do we need a 'simulation' of combat to figure out if you could win or lose? Seems like an easy way to grow reliant on the computer to do it for you. Rather than taking the time to learn. If you have even the slightest bit of hesitation before going into combat, just don't. Wait till you feel are stronger.

I understand that to new players combat can seem daunting, I was there. I know it can be frustrating. But that frustration made me hunker down and learn. I learned via saving before combat and reloading if I lost. Perhaps for new players the option to cancel out of combat after the auto combat results, like the later Heroes games do would be a nice option.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2019 03:16 PM

Quote:
Seems like an easy way to grow reliant on the computer to do it

that would be great thaxs.
Quote:

If you have even the slightest bit of hesitation before going into combat, just don't. Wait till you feel are stronger.

great way to lose every game.
Quote:

I learned via saving before combat and reloading if I lost.

You can't reload en multiplayer everytime that happens.

Perhaps for new players the option to cancel out of combat after the auto combat results, like the later Heroes games do would be a nice option.

that woudl be fine but in multiplayer, the only thing i personally care about, that means you already wasted movement for a fight you have no chance of winning.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 27, 2019 06:07 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 18:10, 27 Apr 2019.

Well, that differentiate the good player from the average, and Hota is clearly experts oriented. I fully understand your position because I myself made about 25 mods for Era, facilitating everything that would need a reload if not worth, as how many mobs, is there any upgraded, how they will split, what artifacts are in every creature bank, what seer huts ask, where can be found what they ask and such things, everything that you can know after wasting time then reloading.

Thats because after xx years of playing, I am bored with reload so I don't want to waste time. However I labeled them as "cheats" in description. The game is excellent, in my view, precisely because it gives not too much but not too little neither of information, thus as average you still can make it on a normal map by trial and error, but only experienced players will look at map and see a long term plan to accomplish, when and what strength is specifically needed to win that fight or another.  

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 27, 2019 08:40 PM

Pollo2002 said:
Oddball13579 said:
If you have even the slightest bit of hesitation before going into combat, just don't. Wait till you feel are stronger.
great way to lose every game.

I made this point from the point of view from a new player who is only playing against the AI. Obviously when playing against another person who would have to be willing to take risks and accept loses from battle.

Pollo2002 said:
Oddball13579 said:
I learned via saving before combat and reloading if I lost.
You can't reload en multiplayer everytime that happens.

Well, I've been playing before online multiplayer was even a thing. So I only had the AI and my brother to play against.

Pollo2002 said:
that woudl be fine but in multiplayer, the only thing i personally care about, that means you already wasted movement for a fight you have no chance of winning.

Seems to me if you are playing in multiplayer, auto combat from a distance seems a rather cheap way to ensure that you don't take any loses from combat. Almost like cheating. Oh I can't beat this stack yet? Well now I know and I didn't waste any movement and I didn't get locked into combat or have to do it manually. No loses for me! Yeah! Yup. Totally seems like cheating to me.

Salamandre said:
The game is excellent, in my view, precisely because it gives not too much but not too little neither of information, thus as average you still can make it on a normal map by trial and error, but only experienced players will look at the map and see a long term plan to accomplish, when and what strength is specifically needed to win that fight or another.

Excellently put. And this is the exact point I have been trying to make. Experienced players should already know when to engage a stack and what strength is needed for said stack. They should not be relying upon a simulation from a distance.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2019 09:57 PM

Quote:

Well, that differentiate the good player from the average, and Hota is clearly experts oriented

I disagree, but if i would Agree, and THAT differentiate a good player from the average, i would say heroes 3 is a terrible game and i would not play ever again.

However again, I disagree.
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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2019 10:00 PM
Edited by Pollo2002 at 22:05, 27 Apr 2019.

Quote:
Seems to me if you are playing in multiplayer, auto combat from a distance seems a rather cheap way to ensure that you don't take any loses from combat. Almost like cheating. Oh I can't beat this stack yet? Well now I know and I didn't waste any movement and I didn't get locked into combat or have to do it manually. No loses for me! Yeah! Yup. Totally seems like cheating to me.

To me it isn't any more cheating than being able to know where your hero can walk next turn, i can use the same kind of "dramatization".

"oh if i end with my hero here i can't reach that spot there?, well now i Know so i can reposition my hero in a better place and don't waste movement, No lose of movement from me ! Yeah! Yup. Totally seems like cheating to me"

"hey why even allow to Ctrl click to split troops, that ensures you can do that a lot faster, now i can save time of my clock to focus on other thinigs instead of splitting trops, no losing time for me Yeah totally seems like cheating to me"

It seems to you heroes is interesting because some it test the skill of doing some pretty basic math.

I think heroes is a way more deep game with decisions. Not who has some basic knowledge and can do basic math in quick time.


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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted April 27, 2019 10:37 PM

Pollo2002 said:
To me it isn't any more cheating than being able to know where your hero can walk next turn, i can use the same kind of "dramatization".

"oh if i end with my hero here i can't reach that spot there?, well now i Know so i can reposition my hero in a better place and don't waste movement, No lose of movement from me ! Yeah! Yup. Totally seems like cheating to me"

"hey why even allow to Ctrl click to split troops, that ensures you can do that a lot faster, now i can save time of my clock to focus on other thinigs instead of splitting trops, no losing time for me Yeah totally seems like cheating to me"

It seems to you heroes is interesting because some it test the skill of doing some pretty basic math.

I think heroes is a way more deep game with decisions. Not who has some basic knowledge and can do basic math in quick time.

Everything you just mentioned are quality of life things/UI changes. Things that make things a little easier. Splitting troops with one click is hardly cheating. If you've always been able to split your troops, adding a button that does it for you is not cheating. Being able to see where your hero is going could be compared to driving with a map/gps. You may know where you are going, but you still have to get there. You don't know what you are going to find along the way, the map/gps could also be outdated. You remove the ability to see where you are going, does that make any difference to the gameplay? No.

You add the ability to cheat your way through combat without being forced to either resolve combat via auto combat or manually. Potential for cheating.  

And Heroes is interesting to me because it is unique. Not because "it tests my skills to do basic math".

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