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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: The matter of choice - Philosophy
Thread: The matter of choice - Philosophy This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


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Undefeatable Hero
Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted March 21, 2017 06:59 PM

fred79 said:
artu said:
If he's not mentally ill, I would then check out what his experience actually is, is it something that can actually be displayed to other people by any objective means.

If it is, I'd thank him for the introduction.


i'll draw something in ms paint or photoshop soon. after that, i'll say, "you're welcome".


i made a crude mock-up of what i saw in the op of that thread, if you want to take a look. and you're welcome.


@ gryphs: believe it or not, i wouldn't get rid of every human.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted March 21, 2017 07:11 PM
Edited by Galaad at 19:21, 21 Mar 2017.

fred79 said:
@ gryphs: believe it or not, i wouldn't get rid of every human.


Yeah you'd keep the hot chicks. :mischievous smiley:
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fred79
fred79


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Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted March 21, 2017 07:28 PM

that's not ALL i'd keep around, gallyhad. my(and the planet's) needs wouldn't be met by sex alone.

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Galaad
Galaad


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Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted March 21, 2017 07:30 PM

Muffins don't count as human beings.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted March 21, 2017 08:42 PM
Edited by frostysh at 20:46, 21 Mar 2017.

AlHazin said:
...Curse you all I shall burn you for your heresy. Yes, even you, Frostych.
Hmm?
Maurice said:
I was aware of various interpretations of quantum mechanics, but not really interested in whatever label I fell under. That being said, after reading up a bit, the Copenhagen interpretation seems relatively close to what I believe in (and not being well-versed in quantum mechanical history, it's funny to see some of the thoughts I had about it have in fact been considered before by other () brilliant minds), with regards to quantum mechanical theories and interpretations. However, not everything there suits my personal opinion, but I guess it's close enough.
I did not clearly understand. You are proclaiming the crucial stuff of Copenhagen Interpretation - before measurement (interaction) exist nothing. Which is I am don't like, and I proclaming that it is not so easy - so I have imagine the futures as the possibility cloud in the Quantum Physics, so before the frostysh on the bad, will make choice, this cloud is only virtual, and after the choice has been made - it's disappearing, and only one single variant left. So why the hell you have connected the stuff about "Shr.. Cat" to my model, if you are not follow Copenhagen Interpretation? - "Shr.. Cat" in this case, I don't think it will be a good analogy, coz' in my model the whole future is exist in "cloud state", but just connection between Micro World and Macro World, like in the experiment with a "Cat", where after interaction the only variant A, or B appeared, but not A x B, or I am saying something wrong? In addition, if we are talkin about the quantum mind, we can express the possible choices medium as something that wec describe in Mathematical terms, and ahh, this something will be placed in somekind of Space (Well, I have doubts that this Space will be a Hilbert like stuff..), so why not? So why ma' snow is so bad? At least, as far as I know no experiments can confirm or anti-confirm that. - And this is what I have tried to say - on the edge of the Science, only the Theories (an imagination expressed in terms of Mathematics, of somekind) exist. We cannot speak there for sure, and you are trying to speak for sure, to define, etc.. - And the hell I have no idea why.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Well I have a dream, something like a crazy nonsense idea - I want to create a Time machine, and then come back into past, and prevent all those stuff that cannot be expressed in the words of the any existing language on the Earth, all those genocide, wars, etc. That because I don't like Copenhagen Stuff, and I like to think that Time Travels are possible, and indeed in the Wheeler's Experiment, the stuff coming back to the past, and the appear on the detectors .
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fred79
fred79


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Chewer of Expensive Shoes
posted March 21, 2017 08:49 PM

Galaad said:
Muffins don't count as human beings.



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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 22, 2017 12:43 AM

frostysh said:
You are proclaiming the crucial stuff of Copenhagen Interpretation - before measurement (interaction) exist nothing.


Nope, that's not what I am saying; it's actually one of the things I don't like about the Copenhagen Interpretation.

The way I see it, a "free" particle (i.e., one that has no interaction whatsoever with any other particle) exists in some sort of a quantum dimension that's outside of our physical, 3-dimensional reality. One premise that I am making here, is that the physical, 3-dimensional reality as we experience it in our everyday life is actually a subset or subdimension of something that's far larger and that "larger" encompasses the quantum dimension as well. You could see this as the hidden variable stuff that they considered around that time the Copenhagen Interpretation was formulated. Einstein wrote a paper about hidden variables but never published it.

With our 3D reality being a subset, you have to think again about the meaning of the word "existence". A particle in a quantum state that's outside the boundaries of our 3D reality still exists "somewhere", just not directly within our 3D reality. Given the premise that our 3D reality is really a subset of something larger, there's a form of entanglement, of "sensing" between our 3D reality and the quantum dimension beyond it. The way I see it, whenever a particle in a quantum dimension encounters the "shadow" or "echo" of another particle, the interaction causes both particles to more or less emerge within our 3D reality; apparently, such interactions are more convenient or whatever in our 3D reality than purely within that quantum dimension, requiring the lowest energy potential to make it happen. This emerging of the particle in our reality from out of the quantum dimension is what they call the collapse of the wave function.

We just have no way to visualise or conceptualise the quantum dimension I am talking about, since our brain wasn't formed or shaped there - the matter of which our brain is formed is the result of an emergent effect of the interactions of elementary particles within our 3D reality, just like the weather we experience every day is emergent from temperature gradients on a molecular scale in our planet's atmosphere.

But given the insane amount of interactions that existing matter has on a quantum scale at every given moment, the matter of which our world is built can be considered pretty much as being permanently in our reality, rather than sinking back into that quantum dimension. Or, as they say within quantum theory, existing matter has a very strong inter-entanglement, which prevents them from falling back. Free particles, however, are free to sink back below the waves, only to emerge when they encounter another one.
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frostysh
frostysh


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WHY?
posted March 22, 2017 10:54 AM

Maurice said:
Nope, that's not what I am saying; it's actually one of the things I don't like about the Copenhagen Interpretation
Perhaps I have misunderstood you, mr Maurice.
Maurice said:

The way I see it, a "free" particle (i.e., one that has no interaction whatsoever with any other particle) exists in some sort of a quantum dimension that's outside of our physical, 3-dimensional reality. One premise that I am making here, is that the physical, 3-dimensional reality as we experience it in our everyday life is actually a subset or subdimension of something that's far larger and that "larger" encompasses the quantum dimension as well. You could see this as the hidden variable stuff that they considered around that time the Copenhagen Interpretation was formulated.
Hmm How interesting - I like it. I have heard about a few theories that using another dimensions stuff, two of them (almost three): Brane, Sting Theory and Kaluza-Klein Theory. First one using interesting combo of weird things and another dimension, second one have little bit more dimensions than General Relativity (well in GRT one of dimensions is time-dimensions, which is not spatial stuff, yeah-yeah, you can say many words against, but in general it's different thigs - I hope so ).
Maurice said:
Einstein wrote a paper about hidden variables but never published it
Hmm? - *waiting before you will post a direct reference to the stuff, coz' frostysh is too lazy to search for himself*
Maurice said:
With our 3D reality being a subset, you have to think again about the meaning of the word "existence". A particle in a quantum state that's outside the boundaries of our 3D reality still exists "somewhere", just not directly within our 3D reality. Given the premise that our 3D reality is really a subset of something larger, there's a form of entanglement, of "sensing" between our 3D reality and the quantum dimension beyond it.
Like a wormhole that connects two places/events, but the "bridge" in the another dimensional reality? Is this your expression of the Quantum Entanglement Phenomenon?
Maurice said:
With our 3D reality being a subset, you have to think again about the meaning of the word "existence". A particle in a quantum state that's outside the boundaries of our 3D reality still exists "somewhere", just not directly within our 3D reality. Given the premise that our 3D reality is really a subset of something larger, there's a form of entanglement, of "sensing" between our 3D reality and the quantum dimension beyond it.
But what about Gravity and the square laws? If there will exist such another spatial dimensions (not like in Kaluze Klein stuff nor String stuff), I have doubts that reciprocal to the squared distance will left the same in the all of this cool Isaac Newton (like the Isaac Asimov) stuff.  
Maurice said:
We just have no way to visualise or conceptualise the quantum dimension I am talking about, since our brain wasn't formed or shaped there - the matter of which our brain is formed is the result of an emergent effect of the interactions of elementary particles within our 3D reality, just like the weather we experience every day is emergent from temperature gradients on a molecular scale in our planet's atmosphere.
I can confirm it, ma' mind is translated into a "Patrick the Star" state when I am starting thinking about outer dimensions more than 3D stuff . But still, it is not changin' a lot of questions to the another dimensions stuff. Which is touching Electromagnetic and Gravity staff in particular, for an example. In both we have a square laws.
Maurice said:
But given the insane amount of interactions that existing matter has on a quantum scale at every given moment, the matter of which our world is built can be considered pretty much as being permanently in our reality, rather than sinking back into that quantum dimension. Or, as they say within quantum theory, existing matter has a very strong inter-entanglement, which prevents them from falling back. Free particles, however, are free to sink back below the waves, only to emerge when they encounter another one.

At this moment I have lost a point. - If you are talkin' about matter that falling to our dimension from the another - quantum, but what the matter actually is then? Coz' if our matter is an image, a "projection" of somekind matter from the quantum dim. then I have doubts that it is need for a inter-entanglement to hold there. In general if you touching such level, u must define what the hell reality is, what the hell matter is.

P.S. I am trying to study the Mathematics with the help of the crezy Russia-lang. book for the technicumes (after the skool but before the University) - "I. V. Zaycev The Elements of the High Mathematics", I hope to become a smarty guy and obtain some cash for myself, and for some peoples that is old and need for my care. - So any good advices about volumes of different book-stuff will be appreciated.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 22, 2017 12:18 PM

frostysh said:
Hmm? - *waiting before you will post a direct reference to the stuff, coz' frostysh is too lazy to search for himself*


It was somewhere on the Wiki page you linked about the Copenhagen Interpretation. I've read about it before, though, in a book I have about quantum physics. I just never gave it really much thought as to what Einstein and his contemporary physicists thought about those hidden variables and how they conceptualised it.

Quote:
Like a wormhole that connects two places/events, but the "bridge" in the another dimensional reality? Is this your expression of the Quantum Entanglement Phenomenon?


No, not quite. You keep thinking in spatial dimensions, whereas I said that we (likely) can't ever know how the quantum dimension(s) look like. Ascribing a spatial attribute to such a dimension may be a dangerous assumption. What I mean is that every particle that exists (regardless of which dimensions it's in) has some sort of imprint or echo in all dimensions. As such, particles that are tied into our 3D reality still have some sort of presence in the quantum dimension too, just as particles that exist in the quantum dimension still have some latent connection to our spatial 3D reality. There's a connection between the various dimensions.

Quote:
But what about Gravity and the square laws? If there will exist such another spatial dimensions (not like in Kaluze Klein stuff nor String stuff), I have doubts that reciprocal to the squared distance will left the same in the all of this cool Isaac Newton (like the Isaac Asimov) stuff.


They are an emergent effect of our 3D reality, just as well as gravity and electromagnetism. In fact, empty space itself may be emergent from it. They may or may not exist in other (quantum) dimensions; like I said, there's preciously little that we can say about those and assuming they're spatial as well is dangerous as it puts constraints on them that may not be valid.
 
Quote:
At this moment I have lost a point. - If you are talkin' about matter that falling to our dimension from the another - quantum, but what the matter actually is then?


With matter I mean the stuff our world and everything in it - including you yourself - is built up from. The atoms of which it is composed are themselves clusters of elementary particles, which all have a tendency to interact with eachother on a quantum level . But most of those elementary particles will pretty much never end up in a "free state" long enough to fall away out of our 3D reality, they simply interact way too much with other particles near them for that to happen.

To illustrate it with an allegory of my own:
In most pinball machines you have bumpers that briefly light up when you hit them with a pinball. After a very short period, the light dims again. You could see the bumper as if it's an elementary particle. When it's in a free state (i.e., in a quantum dimension), it's not lit. When it's hit by a pinball, it has an interaction that takes place in our 3D reality. In this allegory, what happens in matter of which our world and indeed ourselves are built up of, is that the bumper is hit by thousands of pinballs at any given moment and hence, the bumper will never dim.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted March 22, 2017 07:20 PM

Maurice said:
It was somewhere on the Wiki page you linked about the Copenhagen Interpretation. I've read about it before, though, in a book I have about quantum physics. I just never gave it really much thought as to what Einstein and his contemporary physicists thought about those hidden variables and how they conceptualised it.
Well okey-dokey, if I will won against my lazy stuff, I will look for it, still I have no remember of the any things like that.
Maurice said:
No, not quite. You keep thinking in spatial dimensions, whereas I said that we (likely) can't ever know how the quantum dimension(s) look like. Ascribing a spatial attribute to such a dimension may be a dangerous assumption. What I mean is that every particle that exists (regardless of which dimensions it's in) has some sort of imprint or echo in all dimensions. As such, particles that are tied into our 3D reality still have some sort of presence in the quantum dimension too, just as particles that exist in the quantum dimension still have some latent connection to our spatial 3D reality. There's a connection between the various dimensions.
forstysh is little bit dull, so he know only two kind of dimensions - a spatial, and something like a "time dimension". So what excactly kind of dimension you are talkin about? Coz if something "simultaneously" appearing in the few dimension, that is means that it something is located in "A"-dimension world. so from thins "A" number of dimensions, what kind of dimension actually is?.
Maurice said:
They are an emergent effect of our 3D reality, just as well as gravity and electromagnetism. In fact, empty space itself may be emergent from it. They may or may not exist in other (quantum) dimensions; like I said, there's preciously little that we can say about those and assuming they're spatial as well is dangerous as it puts constraints on them that may not be valid
Empty space itself is a very complicated thing. But what a difference from you theory and all those branes and stings, etc - the dimensions, and emergent stuff. Looks pretty similar. Or I am something don't understand (of course I am don't understanding for something, but still )
Maurice said:
With matter I mean the stuff our world and everything in it - including you yourself - is built up from. The atoms of which it is composed are themselves clusters of elementary particles, which all have a tendency to interact with eachother on a quantum level . But most of those elementary particles will pretty much never end up in a "free state" long enough to fall away out of our 3D reality, they simply interact way too much with other particles near them for that to happen.
There is no Atoms exist on the level about we are spoken - only some crazy field, and quarks in compounds. As far as my ability to imagine all of that is making opportunity for me.
And this is looks like your dimension is a very high density place, if those particles in constant interections, but well at least this is looks ok. Anyway I think we have screwed a countless number of the discovered laws of Nature in our conversation .
Maurice said:
To illustrate it with an allegory of my own:
In most pinball machines you have bumpers that briefly light up when you hit them with a pinball. After a very short period, the light dims again. You could see the bumper as if it's an elementary particle. When it's in a free state (i.e., in a quantum dimension), it's not lit. When it's hit by a pinball, it has an interaction that takes place in our 3D reality. In this allegory, what happens in matter of which our world and indeed ourselves are built up of, is that the bumper is hit by thousands of pinballs at any given moment and hence, the bumper will never dim.
I don't know what is means pinball machine - like a pinball on Windows OS? And the interaction is means something happens with energy, but it looks like a Proton for an example is pretty stable, and I see no way how it may happens without a "single time" in your dimension, and in our 3D. Well of course one second in your dimension can be million Earth's years in our, but still.

P.S. Me too sleepy, so I can post A lot of nonsense, and I am sorry for lot of questions - this is one of ma' worst habits...
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 22, 2017 09:30 PM

frostysh said:
I don't know what is means pinball machine - like a pinball on Windows OS?


These machines: Google image link to pinball machines.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted March 23, 2017 01:08 PM
Edited by frostysh at 18:24, 31 Mar 2017.

Maurice said:
frostysh said:
I don't know what is means pinball machine - like a pinball on Windows OS?


These machines: Google image link to pinball machines.
Okay, this is very cool but what about another bucket of question that I have asked?
For an example is your "dimension" is something like a dimension in the modern Theories (String, Kaluza-Klein, and many-many other), or you "dimension" is something close to ma snow - it's something like another world, another Universe, etc?

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The camera-stuff on ma' phone is cool thing, I just wonder why I have no used it before. I think in ma' child-stuff, I even think to become a photographer.
I liked to plant a trees, I have planted over 30 oak-trees, but only ~10 of the survived, also I have planted a lot of the other trees. Well, the peoples which living with frostysh think that it is a nonsense, to plant 'no-profit' trees, such as oaks, but frostysh is usually don't care .
This is some of ma' trees.



From left to the right: fur-tree, fur-tree, fur-tree, oak-tree, oak-tree, apple-tree

Well, one of ma' fur-trees is looks not so good, I think I need saw more branches from the another tree that laid over it, also I have showed one of ma' biggest oak-trees, and one of the ma' smallest oak-trees, the last apple-tree is so tall for now, that ma' camera cannot catch it in the proper way, so I made a photo "from the bottom".
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Supreme Hero
Erwin freed Tibet!
posted March 31, 2017 05:24 PM

I think this thread needs your magic song, Elvin.
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Elvin
Elvin


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Rejuvenation process
posted March 31, 2017 10:29 PM

No way. Maurice is enjoying this way too much as it is.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted April 01, 2017 12:44 AM

frostysh have faced a proposition to become a young teacher of Physics and Mathematics fo' kiddos in ma' village-skool , well, despite of frostysh have no job, I have refused, despite I liked Science stuff, etc. Why? That because:

1) frostysh is dull as hell, well, perhaps present teacher is not very brilliant too , but still.

2) frostysh have no pedagogical skill.

3) frostysh have hard inscribed inside of him somekind of rule, somekind of advises how to act. One of this "rules" saying that frostysh must be fair, - this is means that most of kiddos that frostysh will teach, will obtain a zeros, coz' most of this kiddos have no single idea about Mathematics and Physics. And then their parents will burn down my house, and obviously I will be dismissed from skool.

4) In general - to avoid many conflict situation, that frostysh have faced trough life, the good strategy is stay away from a large amount of peoples as far as possible...

This rules that frostysh have discovered (well, somebody may say - you just created those in your head and it is a total nonsense! I will answer, that who the hell knows, the is a lot of madness and horror of the any kinds in the human World, and ma' snow is looks not so bad, if we gonna count such background.), is actually a wonderful things, somekind of the life Philosophy, and I have faced nothing more strong than my crazy ideology, well I mean in terms of the ideology strength.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Supreme Hero
Erwin freed Tibet!
posted April 01, 2017 01:39 AM

Allah has protected the innocent children.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted April 01, 2017 01:57 AM

AlHazin said:
Allah has protected the innocent children.
,

I have never a skill to communicate with a children.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 01, 2017 02:14 AM

You are the master when it comes to adults though.
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frostysh
frostysh


Famous Hero
WHY?
posted April 01, 2017 02:50 AM
Edited by frostysh at 07:06, 03 Apr 2017.

artu said:
You are the master when it comes to adults though.
Hargh, harghh, harr, ... , mr artu, a cool sarcasm it was - that is definitely ma' skool. Take a cookie for that .

And there is a deep night, why you don't sleep, mr artu, don't make same mistakes as frostysh, if your sleep is not proper, some cognitive neurons can be damaged.
Besides, this "kiddos" in my skool, in the times where I was there - was not a "honey". Most of the old teachers self-disbanded coz' of psychological (and not only psychological) continuous insults. For an example - when teacher standing back to the class-room, kiddos like to trow at him/her a wet trash, or a plastic bottles, or something even more heavy. There is no silence in the classroom, total noise and shout, did I have remembered that ma' class mates was involved into a selling of the heavy drugs? Etc..
forstysh tried to protect some old teachers, but it was hopeless, for now nobody of the old teacher working at skool. So I think, in nowadays the habits of those kiddos poorly changed...

P.S. I thinking to create somekind of a book of the Philosophy. I mean not a book, but a brochure somekind, where I will ascribe this "old-skool" rules, and importance of the choice, by the way, how Philosopher speaks about a choice (I have rarely reading a Philosophy stuff)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

mega-sleepy state, but I have rid from the work of killing animal - I have asked to move it for tomorrow, so I have remembered about proposition of work in the skool, about children, etc, and I have remembered about ma' own childhood and skool life, etc, and this forum. First that I need to say, and I have said it in the past - I have not much conversations in the real life, so this is the one of the reason, why I am using a forum as ma' private blog , well of course some peoples is meets me from time to time, for an example ma' friend, but we have no topics to speak, I mean he have no interest in the topics that frostysh have. And I decided to tell about frostysh life, coz' some of users (hello mr verriker) thinking that frostysh is who the hell knows who. I will make a stop only on the few interesting moments, of course
Childhood - well frostysh was not a very good kid, I was not tough or something like that (nor I am for now), but before the skool (before 6-year old) I have tried a cigarettes, a hard alcohol, etc (though that was a first and last time when I have tried it, for a exception about beer - first time I have tasted it in the University, as I remembered, and that was a last time). I have stolen a many things from the peoples, from the government farm corporation, etc, and along with two friends burned to the ground a large building (the building where horses is stayed, very good that in the time when no horses was there...) - for the all of that ma' mother have paid... This is the particular reason why she have so bad health for now (she is over 70 years old).
Skool - there was fun years, only the one thing is bothering me for today, - the moments when the children hardly beating one girl, she was not like other, and I am not protected her, I mean I tried to shout on ma' friend that beating her, but rather I need to beat them instead... Well actually, I was never like to beat somebody, and was not tough, or something like that, and continuously suffer from various deceases. In the skool I have started to realize that Communism sux.
University - He entered into university without paynment for that, and he receives the months payment, and lived in the hostel, well frostysh was a very bad student though, he usually don't bother himself to appear in the university for a long time, and even frostysh appearing in the university, he usually sleeping right in the place where he sitting. In addition frostysh following his "rules" never use a tricks on examinations if it is not allowed, even if the all others used tricks, frostysh never begs for the good marks, etc. In the University, I have finally dislike the Communism and the all connected stuff, a very-very disliked...
Maidan - well when thing going crazy, and frostysh watched it over the old tv-box, he acts as he usually acting - "cut the knot" - gathered his travel bag, and with scream and horrific scandal left his farm and travel to the Capital. During this 4 months, that frostysh was absent, his mother few times was in doctor due to the hearth attack. After the Maidan stuff, frostysh very-very disliked Nationalism and the all connected stuff.
After - well when thing going even more crazy, frostysh decide to gon in army, but frostysh have a lot of deceases and + 1 little bonus health issue from Maidan, + frostysh very difficult character so frostysh has been throw away (well there is another version - the mother of frostysh + some other family member, payed to the guy, that he throw out frostysh). So as usually frostysh decided to accelerate the situation, and with his travel bug make a journey after a huge scandal (even a fist fight of somekind), very soon after frostysh arrived, he realized that it was a very, a very bad idea... Fortunately, after few days frostysh has returned in the one piece.
Till now frostysh is living on his farm, speaking with almost nobody except the Internet, Internet users, and Machines . Doing only something near PC, or hard work in the field. In addition the grandma' of frostysh is going very weak (she is over 90 years old), so it's added a lot of problem to frostysh.
At least we have a chance to make the land where our family is living for a hundreds years, ours! (coz' an idiotic legacy for the SU collectivization stuff making the land is not ours ) - It's called "Privatization" and I hope it will work.


I don't know, it is Psychological, but when I have tell all of that snow I feels better , and me returned to ma' permanent state of the melancholia... Sorry for such large bucket a text for admins that will read and check it for a unproper content , I have tried to be comprehend as hard as possible.

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Some of posts, from my discussion with mr Maurice, transported here coz' off-topic in the "Programming Thread". - The Programming Thread


Maurice said:

Justice is a man-made concept. It's an artificial form of creating a sense of strong equilibrium within society. It doesn't exist in nature at large.

First time I wanted to answer in my standard, a very satirical manner, but then I have remembered about mister Corribus, so I decide to be polite as I can...

No it is not, of course. JUSTICE - is not an equlibrium in the society. To avoid long and conscienceless speech, I will better make some examples:

1) The poor rural farmers living at their farm, they have family, they have a car, they have Idkn, they are protected by Police, by laws, they have Medical Care, etc, they have ability to learn their children in the Skool, etc...

2) The very rich peoples living in their own Island, they have few personal civilian aircraft. They have a large ship, they have, Idkn, the golden cloth, and they also protected by police, law, etc.

Aahh, when this things existing in the Universe simultaneously - this is JUSTICE. Coz' in the both cases the peoples are happy.

1) A very poor rural family, living in the village, they have no car, they have no skool, they paying enormous taxes to gangs included, forced to be involved into corruption, have no normal Police-Law protection (coz' Police is corrupted). Have no normal Health Care. Eventually this family dying coz' of war, or coz' of deceases, etc. In short, this family have no minimal "life quality".

2) The very rich family, using their power to stole the money from the poor guys, to harm a poor guys. They have Island, cars, aircraft, castles, Idkn, they have bought a land on the Mars.. They can buy children for the sexual abuse, they can buy organs for transplantation, they have the best Health Care, they have the shelter against Nuclear WAR, etc, etc. The Law? The don't give a ... about law, they have their own law. - I short they have anything that they want.

If this stuff existing in the Universe, and especially in the same country simultaneously, this is INJUSTICE.
A killing of the peoples without care of they are good and bad in the gas chambers, just because they have another outlook - it is INJUSTICE.
A killing peoples with help of hand-made starvation, because your social reform has been failed - it is INJUSTICE.
Etc.
if you are speaking about society, the JUSTICE it's when one guys have a golden mountains on the Mars, and another guys have a minimal life quality. Both of this guys will be happy. I mean, you have a minimum, if you want a Golden Mountain, you can try to become a rich guys, or something like that. And this is normal when one peoples is more rich than other.
But this is not normal when one peoples have anything, and the millions have no even a normal water supply, or a place to live...

As I said, JUSTICE is like Laws of Nature, despite of observer it will be the same, an invariant. 'It's like a speech in US, translated in the many languages, and it's have a different sound and stuff, but the meaning is the same' - (F. DAVID PEAT - From certainty, to uncertainty, The Story of Science and Ideas in the Twentieth Century).

Conclusions: If JUSTICE is not exist in the Nature, in the very Reality, I will create JUSTICE in mine mind, and I will believe into it, and I will follow it, same as I have did for my whole life of frostysh before that moment.

P.S. Mr Maurice, you are remembered to frostys, mr artu, when he tried to make a wall, a border around the infinity of infinity, with the single finite  concept - materialism . And I will say the same to you, as I have said to mr artu, - "you will fail". I think you have read something about justice, in some books, and I am just curios, why did you (that have obtain as Scientific education, from your own words) accepted that, and have no make any suggestion from yourself? For an example, you can create your own JUSTICE, and say that it is the only true JUSTICE - as frostysh did , Of course I can mistaken, but still.

Maurice said:
Because this topic is aimed at programming, not about other topics. You took it completely off-topic with your posts about mathematics and quantum physics and whatmore.


1) first off, the question to mr LizardWarrior was about a reason of he used word "ramblings", and not about why he have asked me to avoid off-topic there.

2) I have no idea how you may comprehensibly understand programming without understanding how the machines actually works, and this is obviously required a knowledge in the Physics and Mathematics. And if you may know, as you are interested in the Quantum Stuff, there is a modern Programming Stuff (well, at least models), that using Qubitic stuff, I mean Quantum Machines - Quantum Computers! I know I guy, who was pro in this case, I hope he is still alive.

3) It's gonna be You, mr Maurice (associated with Mao and rice in the head of frostysh ),



who have posted first, your ... Arghhhh!. Things about justice, that I think not a true, in this topic, that as you said, is only for programming stuff.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Quote:
The result bears similarity to life insurance. Insurers can compute the average life expectancy of 60-year-old men who do not smoke or drink, but they have no idea when any particular 60-year-old will die. Yet there is one very significant difference. Even if a 60-year-old does not know the hour of his death, it is certain that his death will be the result of a particular cause—a heart attack, a traffic accident, or a bolt of lightning. In the case of radioactive disintegration, however, there is no cause. There is no law of nature that determines when such an event will take place. Quantum chance is absolute - From Certainty to Uncertainty: The Story of Science and Ideas in the Twentieth Century, 2002, F. David Peat, pages: 9 or something like that
This is from the book of mr Peat - interesting, there stated that normal "chances" is the only matter of our ignorance, but the Quantum Chance is something far more different, and it's totally screwed the Aristotelian stuff. Cool. very interesting, indeed. That coz' I like to read Theoretical Guys, instead of the many books written by Engi-guys, I have nothing against Engi-guys, just from my life experience, they usually like to be 100% sure in things that frostysh don't like at all.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Reading some smarty books about Physics (Reality, Quantities, Time, Matter, Force, etc, etc), frostysh mind obviously has been pulled into field of Philosophy. So I decided to type some things in "ma' personal blog" , that ma' imagination have created, or have discovered, before I have forgot them . And yeah - I am not a crazy man, I have successfully passed trough a Psychological Medical Tests in Hospital, not so far ago.

So the =RULES=

The rules, the things that cannot be named, cannot be described in the any of existing and non-existing human languages, due it's complexity. So-called, Rules, that never existed, and those who have created them has never existed too. The Rules that guaranty to you nothing, and an everything in the same time. The long forgotten Rules. The anybody who have not follow this Rules have failed, and will fail. The anybody who follow this Rules have failed, and will fail too. And this is not a Rules, the only advises how to act. I see no way how I can describe this Rules in the English, so I will type only a poor shade, only a poor projection of this Rules to the World of Mortals .

######################################################The Choice######################################################

No matter who you are, no matter where you are, no matter where you from, no matter where you go, ... . The only matter is your choice, the choice that you can take every moment of your life.

1) "Well yeah", you will say - "the many factors can change, can force, can trick, and so on, the choice - so the choice is NOT actually a choice, but just a result of combination of this factors" - I will say: "yes, and not, but still Intellectual Creatures have something different from the others, they have an ability to make a choice, their own, they have this gift and the curse in the same time, it is like to have - a soul -". "But it is a nonsense", - you will say, - I will say, "perhaps , who the knows for sure".

2)"It is ridiculous, I have born human - not a firefly, and I have born Nigga-fellah, but not as an Eskimos-fellah, and I have born, there in America, but not in the Alaska, etc - this is defines my fate!" - I will answer: "Yes, and no. In general peoples always found something that can rid them from a painful reality of a choice that belongs only to them, they like to be free from any responsibility for their own choices, so they made many things for that purpose, for an example Caste System, Monarchy, etc." - And will react, "Phhhhhew, nonsense!", I will say: "Perhaps "

3)"In general peoples is like to be slaves of somethings, for an example of system of the rules that can rid them from most of choices in their life. This systems explaining the world around the particular human, and giving to this human a purpose of his/her life, a goal someking, well and so on." - "A slaves!? What a nonsense, the peoples is free! And always like to be free" - "Well yes, and no " - "You are an idiot..." - "Perhaps :coo:"

4) The choices must be pure and clear, any tricking, cheating, etc, for an example ans Commi-guys practiced to rural folks, or Nazi-guys to Jewish, is no counting. If such things is made, this is means, those who have made this things just choose another path, or simply not follow a rules, so not any special interest in them. "Well actually the purity of a choices is a very difficult things, that cannot be explained so easily, perhaps the better point in this case will be just feel it, intentionally, avoiding to much of the general definitions."


#######################################################The Paths #######################################################

The Good, and the Evil exist. It is both a parts of the Nature. Perhaps it is a nature of the Nature itself. You can follow a Path of Good, or a Path of Evil, but never both of them in the same time, well, probably you will have not enough energy for that.


1) "Phahahha, what a nonsense! The Good and the Evil is only the human-mind created things, they actually never existed in the Nature!" - "Well, and I have created them in my mind, as the many peoples before frostysh, and the mind of frostysh is a part of the Nature, so the Good and the Evil is also a part of the Nature" - "It is only an abstraction, an imagination! If I have created a Santa in my mind, this is not means that Santa materialized!" - "Yes and no, if think about something it is materializing automatically as the energy of the intersections in your brain, as the ions in the synapses, ans the electrical field, as the current, as the Fermi' liquids, etcetc." - "But those things is not a Santa!" - "Yes and no, well actually the definition of the Reality itself is a very difficult, and probably will become even more difficult in the future, due to the evolution of the knowledge about Quantum World and Gravity." - "You just have nothing to say, and so on you have blurred as simple things to the size of the Universe, and build a wall of nonessential and difficult terminology" - "Yes and no... " - "Da' **** you! "

2) "The evil and good is a relative terms. What do you mean good, what do you mean evil? For an example: rural folks was evil to the SU government on the beginning of the 20th c. AD., so they killed over a 10 millions of them, and the common Jewish folks is an evil for the Nazi guys, so they killed over 10 millions of them on the beginning of the 20th c. AD., and the killing of this guys was the act of goodness for the guys that have killed those guys, etc..." - "You have a brilliant mind! Indeed, actually the mentioned by you government systems, have made a choice, despite they have no aware of that. To be more preciously, they have choose the Path." - "A good or an evil path?" - "This is depends on your choice. " - ""

To be continued, maybe . . .


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

mega sleepy. . . and trying to follow an advice from mr verriker, and holding with a single thread, rather than a lot of threads.

So I have think about living place, I mean the conditions. The Urban stuff, and the Rural stuff. Pros and Cons. Well I have spent some time in the highly urbanized ares, with a high density of population.

URBAN -  

Cons: Noise, a lot amount of peoples surrounding (frostysh is a "bunker guys", so he is very don't like a lot amount of peoples around..), cars (frostysh don't like cars), you need to pay cashi for the anything (especially for a food), city smells (frostysh want to vomit when he feels a smells of the perfumes, etc ).

Pros: Cool Internet Connection! (Argggh! I desperately need for it), lot of things is easy to get (books, PC-games, electronics, etc), Graffity, skating, etc (Yay!), Idkn, a good payment for the job.

RURAL -

Cons: Killing animals (screw that! if I will obtain cash per month = I will become vegetarian instantly ), everyday some amount of a hard work (especially Spring, Summer, Autumn), no bathroom inside the house (especially annoying at the Winter with a low temperature outside...), annoying neighborhoods (I very don't like them, they a cruel to their cattle, and in general not a good peoples)

Pros: Quiet and peaceful surround (+1), Lot of time after sunset (yep, for an exception of time where you need to grab some stuff to the deep night, like grain, etc, but this is happens rarely), low amount of cars (yep), isolation from peoples (Yay! right what I need), trees (a lot of trees +1), no need to pay cashi for the most of food,

So any good advises

P.S. Mission Completed: +6 Trees planted, +5 bushes planted, frostysh is happy ^^ .



ADDED: Well frostysh was happy not for long, one guy decide to create a garden there, so frostysh is forced to replant his Oak-trees, coz' they "will be a problem for a good and very profit trees", well I have predicted it, but what I can do, I have no money to bought this frigging land and plant my trees there , so I have a few variants:

1) "Switch on ma' standard hard side", and just say "nope, this trees will growth and this place, where I have done so hard work to plant them, THE END."

2) Agreed to replant the trees, despite I don't really want to do that.

Other variants...

I have choose the second variant, not because I fear a confrontation with that guy (that happens many time in the past), but because I want to save my trees, I mean even I will succeed, and the trees will stay where they are, in future, well, lets say... if the trees will have no more protection frostysh, this guy can just kill them. I am not a frostysh, If I cannot take into account such variants of how things will going on, so I decide to try to replant my trees, where they will be "no a very problem" for this guy, and his family... I mean where this trees will make a less of discomfort, and I hope to make an agreement with this guy to do not touch the trees of mine, and do not plant near them anything that will lead to "will be a problem for a good and very profit trees", I hope in this case my trees will have more chances to survive.
This is good, or bad decision, Idkn. I think I will try to replant them tomorrow, and I will need to make call or something like that to create an agreement with this guy, coz' we have no time for that for today, coz' today was a hard day, a lot of work, and I am a very tired for now, and mega-super sleepy...

P.S.S. Ma' pardons again, for creating my own blog from this topic, but I hope this will make no discomfort to anyone. Thanx.

04032017//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have bought "Sacred 2" via gog.com by ~1,5 cashi



Playing on the hardest difficulty possible (1 death = GameOver), for now 70% of map is totally explored (I mean exploring step by step, any corner). I hope ma' savegamefiles from the "not very legal" version will fit in this new legal version.
Imho, I playing mostly into  a very old games, so I think will support Roger Guys in term of PC games no more, well at least if the games will have a price less than 1 cashi, let's Rock
My narcotic dopamines  is happy ^^.
____________
Albert Einstein(1929AD)-Nationalism, Eric Hoffer(1976AD)-Communism, Steven Weinberg(1999AD)-Religion

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posted April 03, 2017 07:57 PM

If it's a matter of choice, I choose this:


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Heroes-based proposal threadOn hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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