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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Would you support a Heroes style game without the heroes title?
Thread: Would you support a Heroes style game without the heroes title? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bigpawz83
bigpawz83


Hired Hero
posted April 24, 2017 01:41 PM

Would you support a Heroes style game without the heroes title?

I love Heroes games, but these past 2 editions have been complete misses. Too many problems not enough of giving what the heroes community wanted. What do we want? Heroes 5 and Heroes 3 built upon.
Every discussion I've read always compares back to these 2 games, in which was made very well and it only makes sense that you take he great foundation and build upon that right? well apparently UBISOFT cannot get it right.

TO get to the point, I know a programmer, I know a graphic design artist, they both love Heroes and are both tired of the shortcomings of Ubi on the franchise. So whether it will be supported or not, it is in the making. It's going to have Multiple Castles, multiple choices on each tier of units per castle, Random map generator, simultaneous turns, and dlc added on as in-game purchases instead of whole expansions.
There wont be any dumb design choices like Rat Kobolds (wtf?) or making a spider worshiping undead faction but taking the big drider unit out and making it a warmachine... Hopefully they will follow through on everything they have laid out recently.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2017 03:29 PM

Yes of course I want it very much. But programmers with free time its a problem. New game is 2 years work 8h a day. Graphicians we have here very good... But we can have hope. And I suggest using ideas from HIV too. Its very good system only with mistakes.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted April 24, 2017 05:10 PM

YES
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2017 07:51 PM

Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted April 24, 2017 08:16 PM
Edited by PandaTar at 22:24, 24 Apr 2017.

Karmakeld said:
Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.


Possibly because everyone wants to lead and have their envisioned inspiration come true. That is hard to block and, for a lack of better word, forsake, giving your 'dreams' to another and see a common objective around it. Someone will always feel like they are losing something.

____

And YES. I'm sure it's not a closed formula. Besides, I'm one that doesn't want to replay the same game with better graphics. It would be awesome being surprised and positively awed for once.
____________

Heroes-based proposal thread On hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2017 09:27 PM

PandaTar said:
Karmakeld said:
Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.


Possibly because everyone wants to lead and have their envisioned inspiration come true. That is hard to block and, for a lack of better word, forsake, giving your 'dreams' to another and see a common objective around it. Someone will always feel like they are losing something.


The same reason why we have so many Linux distros

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2017 10:00 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:07, 24 Apr 2017.

kiryu133 said:
YES
Multiple Heroes in the same army was my favorite HIV feature and I would like to see it came back but without troops being able to move by themselves and so without troops having movement terrain movement i.e. you could trade them even when out of movement and the other hero could use all his movement.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 24, 2017 11:02 PM

bigpawz83 said:
What do we want? Heroes 5 and Heroes 3 built upon.


That is indeed the two most popular titles, if only h5 wasn't Warcraft but Might and Magic instead it would be perfect! And 2D.
____________

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2017 11:46 AM

PandaTar said:
Karmakeld said:
Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.


Possibly because everyone wants to lead and have their envisioned inspiration come true. That is hard to block and, for a lack of better word, forsake, giving your 'dreams' to another and see a common objective around it. Someone will always feel like they are losing something.


Very good point Panda Tar, and I believe it to be very much the truth. But at the same, it explains why there are so many treads - 'coz there are so my visions and opinions, but that is also the biggest obstacles, and I believe it's also the main reason why it's never progressed further than a lot of ideas. But come on, even in real life (or the game industry for that matter), you sometimes needs to swallow your pride and accept compromises. Even IF a fan made game is ever made I'm sure ppl. would still complain. Either by having Heroes being active in battle like in H4, for not being based on the 2 most favorite games H3 &H5 or for not being innovative enough, but just an extension of the before mentioned games. Admit we can't all be leaders. You can have lead programmer, lead designer etc. but ultimately someone's gotta make a decision or agree to let democracy rule. If 5 people want the Dwarf to belong in 5 different factions, either make 5 dwarves, roll a dice, make a poll, appoint someone to choose or whatever. In my optic the biggest obstacle is, that its an online project, allowing each person's ego to rule, instead of seeing the bigger picture. So you only got 3/4 of your ideas in the final product, but it was final. Not just a vision you dreamed about for years.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2017 12:58 PM

Karmakeld said:
PandaTar said:
Karmakeld said:
Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.


Possibly because everyone wants to lead and have their envisioned inspiration come true. That is hard to block and, for a lack of better word, forsake, giving your 'dreams' to another and see a common objective around it. Someone will always feel like they are losing something.


Very good point Panda Tar, and I believe it to be very much the truth. But at the same, it explains why there are so many treads - 'coz there are so my visions and opinions, but that is also the biggest obstacles, and I believe it's also the main reason why it's never progressed further than a lot of ideas. But come on, even in real life (or the game industry for that matter), you sometimes needs to swallow your pride and accept compromises. Even IF a fan made game is ever made I'm sure ppl. would still complain. Either by having Heroes being active in battle like in H4, for not being based on the 2 most favorite games H3 &H5 or for not being innovative enough, but just an extension of the before mentioned games. Admit we can't all be leaders. You can have lead programmer, lead designer etc. but ultimately someone's gotta make a decision or agree to let democracy rule. If 5 people want the Dwarf to belong in 5 different factions, either make 5 dwarves, roll a dice, make a poll, appoint someone to choose or whatever. In my optic the biggest obstacle is, that its an online project, allowing each person's ego to rule, instead of seeing the bigger picture. So you only got 3/4 of your ideas in the final product, but it was final. Not just a vision you dreamed about for years.


Agreed. Developing a game requires top-shelf project management and leadership skills, and that don't come easy. A lot of people can have a lot of ideas (of course some have better ideas than others) but not only not one person can have the best ideas on all things considered (unless they're experiencing delusions of grandeur), it takes a whole other level of greatness to be able to elicit and put together better ideas than yours, construct that vision of the big picture, lead all the efforts towards that end, and actually see it through while minimizing any hard feelings along the way.

Not saying it's the case here but it's possible in this kind of communities that way too many people think they have what it takes (which is definitely the case in the Linux world), and mostly because they underestimate the task, and they don't see (m)any people better than themselves. What can save the day is a visionary / leader with a proven track record, around which people can gather and pledge their efforts, and that is rare to come by.

To be honest, in the Heroes communities, I believe only very few of such people exist. I can name two of them such that if either one of them came out and said he's developing a Heroes-like game, they could rally most of this community around them: JVC and Marzhin.


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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 25, 2017 01:23 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:24, 25 Apr 2017.

It is my personal conviction than non other than JVC or former NWC employees could create a new fantastic Heroes game again and by a huge margin.

Then if there is some kickstarter emerging from the shadows with solid ongoing work, and that I think is going the right direction with serious potential I will gladly support it.

On a side note I find it a bit surprising that no one mentioned Quantomas from the community as he is working on Heroes AI since like a decade and has already made his proofs: no one is playing h5 without his AI nowadays.
____________

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2017 01:29 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 13:31, 25 Apr 2017.

thGryphn said:
Karmakeld said:
PandaTar said:
Karmakeld said:
Perhaps you should contact NimoStar. It seems there are various treads about the subject - Make our own Heroes game. I just wonder why ppl. make several independent treads about it, instead of joining forces and actually do something specific about all the ideas that are out there.


Possibly because everyone wants to lead and have their envisioned inspiration come true. That is hard to block and, for a lack of better word, forsake, giving your 'dreams' to another and see a common objective around it. Someone will always feel like they are losing something.


Very good point Panda Tar, and I believe it to be very much the truth. But at the same, it explains why there are so many treads - 'coz there are so my visions and opinions, but that is also the biggest obstacles, and I believe it's also the main reason why it's never progressed further than a lot of ideas. But come on, even in real life (or the game industry for that matter), you sometimes needs to swallow your pride and accept compromises. Even IF a fan made game is ever made I'm sure ppl. would still complain. Either by having Heroes being active in battle like in H4, for not being based on the 2 most favorite games H3 &H5 or for not being innovative enough, but just an extension of the before mentioned games. Admit we can't all be leaders. You can have lead programmer, lead designer etc. but ultimately someone's gotta make a decision or agree to let democracy rule. If 5 people want the Dwarf to belong in 5 different factions, either make 5 dwarves, roll a dice, make a poll, appoint someone to choose or whatever. In my optic the biggest obstacle is, that its an online project, allowing each person's ego to rule, instead of seeing the bigger picture. So you only got 3/4 of your ideas in the final product, but it was final. Not just a vision you dreamed about for years.


..it takes a whole other level of greatness to be able to elicit and put together better ideas than yours, construct that vision of the big picture, lead all the efforts towards that end, and actually see it through while minimizing any hard feelings along the way.

To be honest, in the Heroes communities, I believe only very few of such people exist. I can name two of them such that if either one of them came out and said he's developing a Heroes-like game, they could rally most of this community around them: JVC and Marzhin.




Well we'd all grow old waiting for either of the two
But you're right about the leadership, and this is indeed where online communication is the biggest obstacle. Read any forum, and you'll soon realize how big a task it will be trying to minimize any hard feelings. Compared to real life it's my observation that people online go from 0-100 on the anger scale in just a few posts. Assigning people with tasks and leadership roles, might solve some of egotistic issues. Of course not everyone cares about design or factions etc. But in general I think the more issues you can eliminate early on, the bigger your chances are for success. Present your vision, be clear about what you seek help with, and which part are open for discussion and which aren't.

Galaad, forgot about Quantomas, haven't played H5 - yet. But doesn't he work solo? And isn't his work a mod or do he intend to make a new game based on his AI?

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted April 25, 2017 02:24 PM

I think that all separate idea must have own thread but with links to similiar topics. Only NWC can do true MM game but its no opposite to fan creations. Both are needed. JVC kickstarter creation plus fan made addons and full games if it will be possible. Combo.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 25, 2017 02:39 PM

Karmakeld said:
Galaad, forgot about Quantomas, haven't played H5 - yet. But doesn't he work solo? And isn't his work a mod or do he intend to make a new game based on his AI?


To be honest I never quite understood if his Heroes of Ancient Order project was a huge mod or a game from scratch. Still it may be interesting for OP to know that, an AI is already available and if he's serious with his project he could try to get in touch, maybe by writing in Q's thread over CH: https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/16/15952.
As for solo I do not know, but I sure hope it's not for obvious reasons.
____________

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted April 25, 2017 02:47 PM

You have my support.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2017 05:20 PM

@Galaad, look at his first post, it seems like a game is the intention.

@Baronus, indeed each person should share their personal vision in their own tread, but.. i'll make my point, with an example. Marzhin shared his vision of 2 unreleased H4 campaigns for H7. Now you could imagine say 4-5 mapmakers wanting to make each of their own H4 version, 'coz they felt this is where it belonged. Or they could join forces and work together. Each share their ideas and visions and hope to get a better result, which would be much faster in the process of making . (I think this was also one of thegryph's points).

I don't think linking will do much, unless you mean to point them in the direction of fellow minded, hoping they'd join forces that way... Else someone simply needs to be the first to knock on someone else's door and say e.g. 'Hello XX, YY here. I saw you're working on an AI, your faction list, your detailed vision of a game etc. Maybe we can join forces. I know a programmer and a designer, I think they might be interested...'
As of now I just see a lot of treads, some rather detailed, others just checking if there's support for such project, but none that seems to managed to assemble the needed team. People with skills do seem to volunteer, someone just need to take the lead.

@Bigpaw83
bigpawz83 said:
TO get to the point, I know a programmer, I know a graphic design artist, they both love Heroes and are both tired of the shortcomings of Ubi on the franchise. So whether it will be supported or not, it is in the making.


If you're already in the making, how about sharing some details? Is it a 2 or 3 person team?
Are you looking for add. team member? Which skills required etc.?
It sounds like you have a design/vision already?

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted April 25, 2017 07:23 PM

I agree one person can max build big mod. But to real game must be team. Together yes!  Yes we should talk about concepts and fit one to another. In unity is power.

We have good machines like unreal egine or unity free for modders. But I think that beauty 2D will be the best. Mustnt be models. Sprites are good too and nice to work.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted April 25, 2017 07:34 PM

Karmakeld said:


@Bigpaw83
bigpawz83 said:
TO get to the point, I know a programmer, I know a graphic design artist, they both love Heroes and are both tired of the shortcomings of Ubi on the franchise. So whether it will be supported or not, it is in the making.


If you're already in the making, how about sharing some details? Is it a 2 or 3 person team?
Are you looking for add. team member? Which skills required etc.?
It sounds like you have a design/vision already?


Aye. It would be a good start showing what's happening, if decisions upon certain aspects were already made, what's on schedule, what's still to do. And an advice: avoid doing the same Ubisoft did, focusing on graphics and just showing these things to people who are willing to help. Many people got lured by graphics back then and most of us know what happened later, when it was too late to tweak mechanics, right? Be terse and clear.
____________

Heroes-based proposal thread On hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted April 25, 2017 08:23 PM

Might be a good idea to make some polls to see what the community would like. Not like the stupid faction polls, but like if most people would prefer a new setting or an old one. Just throwing it out there.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 25, 2017 08:25 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 20:44, 25 Apr 2017.

Well given the majority opinion on Ashan on this forum I think you already have your answer.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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