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Heroes Community > Other Games Exist Too > Thread: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
Thread: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 07, 2017 02:36 PM
Edited by blob2 at 14:53, 07 May 2017.

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is coming!

I don't know if making a seperate post for this makes sense, but I remember a few guys here knowing and liking the series... and here's hoping more of the people here will get to know the franchise as it might get big in the coming years which is nice cause TBS games are still a niche I think. But onto the game itself!

The more then I read about it the more I'm getting hyped for this. I'm trying not to spoil my fun by reading too much, but everything I've seen so far makes me think this will be the best FE game since Radiant Dawn. And here's why:

- Plot looks epic. Clasic FE style. From what I can tell it's much more serious and has less irritating characters. That infantile Avatar character with his "Big Brother/Sister!" from Fates (most recent entry) worked on my nerves. Rest of the characters were also weak and I can't remember a single one I would like. And that takes a big chunk from the game expierience cause FE games are a lot about 'liking' the characters. Story dialouges seemed to even go as far as to offend the players intelligence... I hope those will be better in Valantia.

- No pairings. That means no superfluous child system (which artificially extends the game with boring missions). I know a lot of people like to tinker with their army, build their perfect units while messing with the pairings and their respective skill sets, but I actually hate this in newest FE games. I know a lot of players finish the game a few times cause they love the 'customize your builds' aspect of these games, but I always liked FE games for their plots and pure strategic battle systems instead of all those 'numbers' and grinding behind it. I think the child system, although it can be completly ignored, takes something from the games consistency. I enjoy the game more when I play badass characters which are related to the plot (not out of place like children characters), even if they're OP. They're Heroes, they should be OP in the face of greater enemy numbers! And I don't dig the "I've raised a powerhouse from a villiger" aspect or this mixing of the least attractive/unmatching characters cause their 'stats/skills correspond'. I don't find fun in reading various 'how to' guides which become really complex in this case. Sure it's satysfying to some extent, but imo takes a a lot of the games momentum. But that's of course my personal taste, and from what I've seen Valentia still has a lot of customization options (like building skills around weapons used by characters) for all those grind freaks.

AND that also means no enemy pairings system, which was the worse design decision in the entire series as it simply makes the game unfair. It's probably the sole reason I had to resign from playing Classic mode for a big part of the Fates games (yes I confess!), as I didn't want to waste time to replay missions only because the stupid and unfair system made for example 5x2 consecutive attacks to your single units which even the toughest of your heroes couldn't survive (and of course enemies always move in clusters). It's not challenging in the traditional way, it simply makes the game more tedious. Your enemies already have bigger numbers which forces you to strategize more so why add this cheap s*it of a system which in turn makes the game less fun to play. Keep in mind this comes from a guy who finished Radiant Dawn on Hard (of course with perishable heroes).

To make things more interesting additionally we're getting the 'go back a turn' system which is an incredible addition as the bane of the FE series are criticals which catch you off guard and ruin even the best of strategies. Because it's limited the system is perfect to sort out those unlucky turns which would make you repeat whole battles otherwise and does not make the game much easier in turn. This time I'm finishing the game on Classic for sure!

- You're fighting monsters, not ghostly clones of your classes. That gives the game more diversity.

- Mages are back to their rightful place from being the pushovers they were in Fates. Also Archers will probably go back to being OP with their longer range, but there aren't that many of them from what I've read.

- All those exploration aspects of the game like Dungeons or visiting towns actually looks fun. More fun then this boring and repatable Castle system of Fates to say the least.

A lot of classic FE fans share my views of games like FE Fates from what I can see. Sure, other people like the pairing system for instance, but the general consensus is that in order to make the series survive some compromises had to be made, adding more fanservice elements and dumbing down on the series more mature storytelling. I accept that it was for good of the series, but now is the time for people like me to get some love with the series in it's classical and truer form.

Oh and they've also gave us information about DLC. I will seriously consider it although the price of 45$ for a season pass of 5 packs appears mindbending for only a handful of additional missions. I think I'll at least buy the third pack as it gives 10 more uber classes. And I love shiny badass classes!

Sorry for my long post, most of the people here aren't probably interested in the FE, but if you own a DS system I think it's the best game to start knowing the series...

PS: Now that I look into it I wonder if 'Echoes' is a word for remakes that they agreed upon and we will see more of them in the future...

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
I'm an expert chefff
posted May 07, 2017 07:01 PM

well you have tempted me to get a DS and this game

but I know nothing about it really yet.
____________
I have no idea what's going to happen
but epic it will be

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Baronus
Baronus


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2017 08:02 PM

Japan style tactical rpg.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem_Echoes:_Shadows_of_Valentia

May be good...

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 07, 2017 08:22 PM
Edited by blob2 at 20:28, 07 May 2017.

@Celfious

SoV overview trailer

Might be a good time to pick DS up cause a new version will be released shortly:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/5/15549048/new-nintendo-2ds-xl-video-photos-preivew-vs-3ds-xl

And with an already strong library of games and Nintendo's obligation that it will continiously support this family of consoles even with the recent Switch premiere things are looking good. Plus I don't know about 2DS XL but the DS console family is backwards compatible so you can even play some older great games like Advance Wars Dual Strike (like in my case).

I will be probably shifting towards Switch more, but I cannot pass on such diamonds like Valentia.

Or if you want you can try Fire Emblem Awakening, it's a nice game to start with the series. It is the entry that 'saved' the series with its sales afterall.

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Trogdor
Trogdor


Legendary Hero
FOR HARAMBE!!
posted May 08, 2017 05:39 PM

I'll probably be giving this one a go after playing the last couple of the series. The plot is usually the main reason I buy a FE game, so this looks promising.
____________
“Why do stupid sugar and stupid salt look so much alike? It's a conspiracy!”

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 15, 2017 12:49 AM
Edited by blob2 at 13:19, 20 May 2017.

Damn gonna have to buy an NFC Reader for my 3DS. Can't pass on that Alm & Celica Amiibo exclusive dungeons...

EDIT: Valentia is here and after a few hours in I'm liking what I'm seeing/playing. I already like the characters, plus great voiceovers add quite a lot of depth to them. Alm is a likeable protagonist, I also like Gray from the lot. Others are also likeable. Faye is a bit creepy (she has Alm obsession), probably because she's an added character. Mechanic wise I still need to go further into the game although it does feel a little dumbed down. That's actually not a bad thing for a change. Turnwheel mechanic is great on the other hand! I think it should be a new standard in FE games. Dungeon mechanic is solid and great for optional grinding. So far the game is enjoyable, but best of all I really am feeling that FE atmosphere that I've been looking for quite some time now You can feel the epicness all over the place. I still need to play the game more to get the full picture, but I'm really optimistic at this point.

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 20, 2017 01:44 PM

I picked this up yesterday but have only had time to play for a little over an hour.

It definitely feels like an older FE game, which is a good thing. I grew tired of the newer titles due to the things mentioned in the OP. I like the characters so far and the new way to view towns as we'll as the dungeons. I'm also a fan of how face paced the combat is. The only complaint there  is that they still have really lame crits.

It's been weird getting used to the new inventory system but I think I'm starting to like it. Gives items much more importance. It's also nice not having to worry about weapons breaking.


The few negatives is see so far would have to be the removal of the weapon triangle. It was a nice touch and added some strategy imo and it's not like it was totally rock paper scissors, it only added a small advantage if you attacked accordingly. Also the seemly lack of classes. I haven't experienced this yet but from what I've read there are only a small handful. No thief/assassin, wyvern knight, dark or light magic users, Warriors, berserkers, or even a dancer??? Third tier upgrades sound really cool but if this is the cost I'm not so sure it's worth it.

Anyways, it certainly captures the classic fire emblem feel and so I appreciate that. Looking forward to playing it later

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 20, 2017 03:31 PM

@The_Green_Drag

Yeah, lack of weapons triangle is a downside, but not a serious one. I really like how 'solid' units are. At least for now. What I mean is that even with grinding you still need to put a lot of effort to put down a boss unit, alas at the same time your units are not one-hit-ko's which is nice. It's tricky to train them though, but more rewarding I think.

Less classes is also a downside, but their design is really cool (Mycen!). I had a peek into the artbook so I know what to expect And we have monsters, much better then fighting clones of your units. And I really like that classes are back to their rightfull places. Mages might be OP yet again, but they aren't useless which was worse. Healers can fend for themselves so they are uselful even out in the field. Archers are not OP, at least for now, and at the same time their expanded range makes them a lot more useful. My opinions might of course change further I go into the game...

Fatigue system is a bit strange imo, it doesn't add much to the game, but maybe it will be fleshed out and have more sense in later Dungeons. Exploration (static and Dungeons both) are enjoyable.

And lastly, I think the item system is nice. Each weapon is more meaningful and this adds depth to them.

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 20, 2017 04:01 PM

I'm also liking the extra range given to archers. In the past they almost always got replaced by Mages in the long run but now they seem a lot more useful. And yes the mages are back to their rightful place as glass cannons rather than useless nobodies like they were in Fates. I find it strange that magic costs hp now, even if it's only one hit point.

I forgot about the fatigue mechanic. Hasn't been a problem yet but I'm not a fan of the concept. I'm training everyone I get so far so I can shuffle units around later on just in case.

I really like how you get a bunch of villagers at the start and you can kinda customize your starting squad. I feel like I might have upgraded mine a little early tho when I shoulda taken advantage of the extra stats they coulda gotten. Stat gain is rather low for everyone or maybe I'm just used to the newer games now where nearly all characters get super levels

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 20, 2017 06:31 PM

The_Green_Drag said:
I really like how you get a bunch of villagers at the start and you can kinda customize your starting squad. I feel like I might have upgraded mine a little early tho when I shoulda taken advantage of the extra stats they coulda gotten. Stat gain is rather low for everyone or maybe I'm just used to the newer games now where nearly all characters get super levels


I concur. I changed classes for villagers as early as lvl. 10. First of all I read somewhere that exp gain gets lower after lvl. 10. Getting to lvl. 20 with Villagers is a total grind and not really worth it. Mainly because stat gain is really low so you're not that far behind even if you class change early. Plus at this point in the game (after first Dungeon) it really is better to have an all-round team imo. I don't know if we're getting some good class units later on (not too many, but seems that way nevertheless), but for now I rather have a complete and versatile team then a bunch of melee fighters.

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 21, 2017 10:49 PM

About six hours in now and I'm really enjoying it. Fatigue hasn't been a problem and I've already forgotten about the weapon triangle. But that's probably because we're missing a third of it...no axe users at all! Very weird not having my usual warrior in the party.

I'm loving the simplicity of it all. Each class has its own indivual uses and arnt a combination of a bunch of different stuff. The battles feel more chess like because of that. I really like the way items and weapons work now that I understand it more and the way mages learn more magic tomes as they level up. The FFT advance like system where you learn skills based on your held item is really neat. Dungeons are a fun way to gather items and engage in skrimish battles. I just wish they made a quick exit button instead of having to run all the way back to the front

It's a shame they didn't add a berserker and warrior class for a little more variety though. Not only to keep axe users but also to make the two parties differ more. Alm and Celica's parties are basically the same for me. One of every class while I have an extra solider for Alm and an extra mercenary for Celica.

Overall this game rocks! Just proves old school games are the best

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 22, 2017 06:32 PM
Edited by blob2 at 20:33, 24 May 2017.

Yeah a bit more variety class-wise would be nice (it's especially noticable now that I have acess to Celica and her team), but I think that's why they put an emphasis on customizable Villager units.

But the more I dwell into this game the more I'm immersed. The voice acting, music, quite heavy atmosphere (the 'foreboding' cutscenes) are the real deal like in older FE games. Well, it's not that Fates had a bad artistic design, but everything was ruined for me with infantile dialogues and irritating fanservice/japanese sterotypical 'goofy' characters (let's take Izana for instance). And the whiny 'Avatar' character. It's such a joy listening to characters in Echoes, their dialogues are so crisp I don't even want to fast foward them Be it the elegantly calm Lucas or perspicacious Gray to name the few...

My only real concern at this point is the difficulty. Not that the game is easy on Hard, but so far not once did I had a problem with clearing a mission. Hope this gets better later on. But it's good, it's so much better then pairing system from Fates.

BTW did anyone had a chance to try amiibo Dungeons? I'm still waiting for the nfc reader, but wanted to know when is the best moment in the game to access them.

EDIT: I'm really enjoying Dungeon exploring. It's a little breath of fresh air to the game. I even think those should stay in the series. They're not overly complicated, but still give you that nice feeling of uncovering secrets. Plus they make good grind spots.

Did I mention how I like both protagonists? Not only their dialogues are enjoyable (especially with their friends), but they both feel intelligent, collected and resourceful.

Really now this game only keeps getting better. That's how a Fire Emblem game should feel!

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 24, 2017 11:19 PM
Edited by The_Green_Drag at 05:07, 25 May 2017.

Couldn't agree more with the immersion and difficulty.

The voice acting is a very nice touch. Each character has their own phrases and voices and none of them are cheesy or weird. I really enjoy playing with the volume turned up, which is rare for a hand held game. The items keep getting better with access to the blacksmith. And I like not having an avatar.

The difficulty....I hope I unlock a very hard mode after I beat it. I started it off on classic hard mode and like you, I haven't had any problems clearing a map. The mila's turn wheel makes it too easy imo. I'm on act 4 and I still haven't had any full scale battles where it's my army vs like 50 enemies. The maps are too small and all the battles are starting to feel really similar. The low variety of classes effects this too. No thieves or treasure chests to make for an interesting castle battle. And is it just me or are there no enemy reinforcements ever!? I probably won't come back to this one for a little while after I finish it. I don't see much of a point in a second go at it. I'm still really enjoying the game as whole though.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 25, 2017 06:32 PM
Edited by blob2 at 21:47, 25 May 2017.

A bit worrying what you said about battles, but on the other hand it's probably a side effect of the game being a remake. They could've spiced things up with adding some twists, but they probably stayed true to the straightforwardness of the original and thus we have these repetetive battles.

On the other hand, Fates was boring to me even though it had theoretically more varied battles. This game is simply so enjoyable I can turn a blind eye on it's (small) shortcomings.

Additionally there are Dungeons which give me enough variety (except battles, you always fight the same mobs).

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2017 11:00 PM

Part of me also wants to make a team with a crap ton of archers since they're so powerful in this game

I like the dungeons too. They're a nice way of exploring and earning loot, like you said. Gives variety to the grinding as well and I like how when you attack the monster you start with a little bit of an advantage in the fight.

But really is be okay with it if they just did this inventory system for every future FE game. I've got a beefed up shadow blade that wreaks havoc on every enemy it touches

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 26, 2017 08:19 PM
Edited by blob2 at 14:02, 28 May 2017.

Actually so far I think Archers aren't that OP. Sure they have the range but this is actually countered somewhat with their lower accuracy. Of course I suppose later on with stat raise it will be nullified

BTW regarding game difficulty I think that Arcanists give a bit of a challange. You need to fight them more tactically then usual as they can gang up and kill your units with 2-3 hits and they have ranged attacks. The battle on one of the boats with full squad of them was the most trickiest I've had so far.

I also enjoy the addition of Quests. They're nothing fancy, but give another layer to the game and a reason to re-visit locations.

Also I was wondering why would you need the 'Tactics' feature. Turns out it's perfect for grinding. Switch-off animations, hit Charge and viola! Fast grind.

BTW: I was interested in the 'Altars' DLC as the uber-classes look cool, but 15$ is a 'bit' too much for some fancy skins.

EDIT: Further down the game and imo difficulty is just right. There are battles in which you need to contrive quiet a bit. And because Thurnweel is limited (though the limit is expandable) you still need to think not charge forward. And this time around I don't see OP units. Even protagonist units which usually are beasts won't win you battles by themselves. Maybe becuase I'm not grinding that much? Although reaching higher levels yields less expierience in Dungeons so they're more of a places to train weaker units I think...

About Quests. Would be nice if there was some kind of indicator that you've completed them or at least a Quest log (or did I miss it?). Or maybe they wanted it this way?

Question. I've tried to get some more information, but it appears Devil Axe is unusable through the whole game. It's only in your inventory to tease you. Is that right?

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