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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Next French Revolution
Thread: The Next French Revolution This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 09, 2017 08:08 PM

The latter.  When someone wants to live in France, do they apply to France or to EU?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto č possibile
posted May 09, 2017 08:13 PM

They apply to France, nations have kept their sovereignty about that. EU is more concerned for the Shengen visa to travel through the union.
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"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 09, 2017 08:14 PM

They have total control of immigration coming to their country from anywhere outside of EU. Immigration policies vary drastically from country to country.

However citizens of EU member states and their families have the right to live and work anywhere within the EU because of EU citizenship (citizens of non-EU states do not have those rights). This was the problem at least for Brits, who got a lot of Poles coming there to work.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2017 10:16 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 22:19, 09 May 2017.

Which is why they voted for Brexit - they don't want those pesky Eastern Europeans snatch away their jobs, steal their bikes and speak a worse English than Scots.

And while I'm pro-EU, the really interesting question would be to simply hand everyone a list of European states and ask them who they want to be in a union with and who they don't.
What I suppose is that we'd have a few smaller EUs based on that - something like in the European song contest.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 10, 2017 03:08 AM

Minion said:
They have total control of immigration coming to their country from anywhere outside of EU. Immigration policies vary drastically from country to country.

However citizens of EU member states and their families have the right to live and work anywhere within the EU because of EU citizenship (citizens of non-EU states do not have those rights). This was the problem at least for Brits, who got a lot of Poles coming there to work.

Well, when you legally immigrate, don't you end up as a citizen eventually? So what's the point? If I immigrate to Germany, become a citizen and then move to France, how is that France having total control of immigration?

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 10, 2017 07:18 AM
Edited by Minion at 08:11, 10 May 2017.

You can only move to France if you got offered a job there. And only for the duration of the work. When it comes to work, or labour, there are no borders. This is the cornerstone of EU, free movement within it's borders.

Edit. Btw you need to work like 8 years in Germany in order to even apply for it's citizenship. If you do that maybe you deserve the EU citizen status

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 10, 2017 07:34 AM

Migrants, while waiting for asylum decision (2-3 years), can move freely everywhere (yes train is free for them) so finally we lose their track. Then when asylum is refused, migrants remain. Everyone, job or not, can move anywhere within Europe without being controlled once, except when taking the plane.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2017 08:04 AM

Not in Germany.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted May 11, 2017 08:13 PM

I know nothing of France politics, but if it's anything like the politics we have in the "real" ( cough ) western world, both candidates were most likely establishment candidates. You guys were screwed since the start.

Anyways. Long live Eurabia.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 12, 2017 12:42 AM
Edited by Corribus at 00:43, 12 May 2017.

@JJ

To me it seems surprising that Germans would be in favor of the EU, since you seem to carry most of the continent on your backs. Certainly without either Germany or France, the EU would cease to exist.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 12, 2017 01:11 AM

That's a strange perspective, Germany is the major power of EU, being the biggest economy of EU allows them to have more control over the market among the members. Actually one of the most common satires about the EU is calling it the Fourth Reich, saying with the EU, Germany economically achieved what it couldnt in the WW2 militarily. I'm pro-union and all but I wouldnt certainly call EU  "a burden" for Germany.
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted May 12, 2017 05:50 AM

Well, the opinion of frostysh.

The recent event in French Republic (FR), it is a desperate attempt to resolve the situation, for now it's look very effective, but I hope guys have a plan "B", or something..., of course they have .
Why FR is so... important? Well FR is weak, not in terms weak as weak, but weak as weak to destabilization, same problems existing in the other states such as Hellenic Republic (HR), Italian Republic (IR), etc. So why so large amount of resources directed to help exactly to FR? Coz' FR is very important, any significant damage caused to FR will echo in the other places, which in proper time can be truly deadly. KoGB (to be more preciously UKoGBaNI) in this case, I mean from this point of view chosen a more safe strategy, but imho: there was a mistake . Anyway, in case of KoGB is no need to worry on such scale .
Why this mumbo-jumbo usually near FR, Balkans, etc. Actually, I don't know, but if I may be the enemy of EU-guys, probably I focused my power over FR, or HR/IR. The coefficient damage/cost_of_resources is high there. What kind of methods I may use, simple, the nationalistic movements as a disturbance factor, the economic/social pressure over Globe, in case of FR it may be Africa, with no doubts, in ideal will be wage some military conflict on FR.


Too sad, but I am not optimistic, and solution in FR will work only for some time, then will be destabilization, protests, etc, and again thing will start to evolve in this direction . But who knows, I hope I am mistaking.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 12, 2017 07:47 AM
Edited by Minion at 07:58, 12 May 2017.

Corribus said:

To me it seems surprising that Germans would be in favor of the EU, since you seem to carry most of the continent on your backs. Certainly without either Germany or France, the EU would cease to exist.


But you aren't looking at the big picture here. Germany may pay some €10 billion to other countries but the internal market of EU greatly benefits Germany. According to study the internal market boosted Germany’s economic performance by an additional €37 billion on average.

In fact today, Germany has low unemployment, very low inflation, a large trade surplus and a balanced budget. And is de facto leader of Europe. And because of this naturally the other member states blame Germany for all their problems
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Our consciousness should be global, our footprint local.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 12, 2017 08:30 AM

In Germany itself, we have actually the same rule for the member states Germany consists of: the economically strong states have to support the economically weaker states: Equalization payments.

We also had the reunion with the ex GDR, and the ex BRD has been subsidizing the Eastern part heavily as well, and Germans have (still) to pay an extra tax for that, so all in all Germans are used to pay for "poorer neighbors", if you want to.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 12, 2017 09:01 AM

By the way, the other day SolarWorld filed insolvency. It's a German corp, and not a small one (the bid a billion for overtaking GM's Opel brand).

The reason is - the competition from China, because they are MASSIVELY subsidized.
Now, in Germany solar technology has been susidized as well, however, the subsidies have ben reduced in the last decade and will vanish completely now.

I say that, because the EU is actually a free-trade neo-liberal economy zone with the EU not allowing (all-to-obvious) national subsidies, whih means, it's very competitive (and the Euro states also miss the instrument of currency devaloration in order to increase exports WITHIN the EU).

But actually the game isn't about EU countries competing, but the EU competing as a whole with other economies like South-East Asia or the US, and even that loses meaning when you consider who actually owns what in today's globalized world and who profits.

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