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| Thread: The Next French Revolution |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Stevie
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posted November 23, 2017 06:15 PM |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 23, 2017 06:27 PM |
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artu said:
Maurice said:
The opposition to what is basically illegal immigration is mind-boggling and ultimately the downfall of the modern Western world if you ask me. Europe can't carry the weight of Africa.
I guess what you mean is the opposition to objecting illegal immigration is mind-boggling.
Yep, you are correct. Damn, I need to find some time to relax and let the dust in my mind settle a bit.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 23, 2017 07:18 PM |
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I bet it is not that many people raging about his comment, no newspaper is reporting about this. Except that paper that actually is from Morocco.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 23, 2017 07:23 PM |
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All the french press has it in front page.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
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posted November 23, 2017 08:19 PM |
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Salamandre said:
What doesn't make much sense? She is asking asylum, but she can't prove she is in danger in Morocco. That her parents are sick and cured in France is not relevant. She can visit them on a legal basis, when allowed.
Explain this, please. What is the status of her parents and what is her status?
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Salamandre
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posted November 23, 2017 08:22 PM |
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She came in France with a commercial visa, which expired. She now wants asylum and the president himself stated that asylum is given to people oppressed by their respective countries, which is not the case in Morocco. So then, out of arguments, she added that her parents are in France and sick, so she needs to stay with them. Then he stated she can visit them anytime she wants, granted she respects the delay for having a visa and between.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 23, 2017 11:08 PM |
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Yeah, but what is the status of her parents? Are they allowed to stay in France permanently? Or do they have to return to Morocco? And how is that supposed to work in practise? She goes back to Morocco, applies for another visum and goes back to France for 3 months? That would be silly beaurocracy just costing a lot of money, wouldn't it?
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 24, 2017 08:14 AM |
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That would only cost her money, while staying in France without any political reason behind -asylum- would cost our money. You can't run a country when trying to solve individual anecdotic situations for all foreigners.
I would not be opposed to individual process of such information so everyone's problems can be fairly fixed, but that was before, now we are facing millions of such demands, it is unbearable and out of cost. The fact that an illegal alien can and is allowed to publicly shout the president about his personal miseries, followed by a prompt political driven and harsh response of the media, shows there is a will to swarm Europe with such crazy situations and flood any critical attitude. In any sane society that women would first be arrested and only then be allowed to explain, but never directly talk/yell to the president.
What is bothering me most are the unhealthy shortcuts the immigration ideology uses, so it can keep its imaginary benefits. Then in the end, you have lower wages and lower social advantages. Immigration should be about best people to get, not solving individual people problems. When I applied to Canada, 20 years ago, I was refused and they told me "we don't need piano teachers, we have enough of them". Fair enough, and now Canada is the country with the best integration results, is amazing how they managed to make the multiculturalism actually work. But also it shows there must be rules to follow.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 24, 2017 08:54 AM |
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I suppose that means you actually have no clue about the situation of the parents because you don't answer the question.
It seems to be a major flaw especially of our time that people opine on everything, but most of the time without the benefits of knowing any or all relevant facts. I think, this is called prejudice.
Now, don't think I'd be oblivious to the money issue. But if you really want a good reason to be pissed about tax money squandered, in Germany there is a group called "Bund der Steuerzahler" - Association of Tax Payers -, and every year they publish the worst cases of tax squandering in a Black Book, and it's billions that are squandered and wasted for nonsensical things or with mismanagement.
I'm sure, there will be something like this as well in France. THAT would be something to direct anger to - money directly wasted, like, throwing it away.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 24, 2017 09:06 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
It seems to be a major flaw especially of our time that people opine on everything, but most of the time without the benefits of knowing any or all relevant facts. I think, this is called prejudice.
Maybe so, but with all of these individual cases, there's simply too much to handle and consider. You have to draw a line somewhere and tell everyone what's the law and surrounding regulations - otherwise, you will lose control and you'll end up with anarchy.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 24, 2017 09:54 AM |
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You'll stop saying this, as soon as YOU are one of those "individual cases". And I'm too lazy now to look that up, but in matters of law the aim in all the democratic states is not to judge by the letter, but in fact to CONSIDER the individual and their case, explaining the differences in verdicts for seemingly the same issue.
And I can virtually guarantee to you that you will want YOUR case to be treated individually and not summarily, should there be one. We are talking about individuals here, not faceless masses.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 24, 2017 07:03 PM |
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Asylum is an human right and is one of our core values because it concerns a special category of people and grants freedom as opposed to oppression. No idea why you insist on an irrelevant detail as what about her parents, I just don't care as long as she asks asylum. And no, I won't act same if I was in same situation, I already explained why. Thanks to such crispy attitudes as yours, always excusing the inexcusable, we will surely face extinction, as you always point about individual while ignoring we face millions of such demands. Enough.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 24, 2017 08:11 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
You'll stop saying this, as soon as YOU are one of those "individual cases".
So your argument comes from subjectivity and favoritism? That's not a valid reason to circumvent the law. If there are no legal grounds for her to stay in France, then by all means she shouldn't be allowed to stay in France.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 24, 2017 08:56 PM |
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He is not exactly talking about favoritism. In more advanced and historically mature democracies, the spirit of the law is considered to be to protect the citizens. (-@JJ - She is not a citizen though, which is an important detail.) In delicate situations, loop holes or gray areas are interpreted in favor of the weak, at least ideally. So it is not exactly the best PR move to go strictly technical in a case where a person is seperated from her sick parents, which was JJ's first emphasis about the subject. In less advanced countries with higher corruption levels (including Romania and Turkey) such things can be associated with favoritism in a different manner, where gray areas are used by powerful politicians in favor of their entourage, which is the real favoritism with the pejorative meaning.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 24, 2017 10:03 PM |
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yeah, she is about 40 years old. What are that chances that parents of a 40 years old -so between 65 and 80 yo are sick more or less, about 100%?
We assist at a display of hypocrisy and dishonesty. The truth is that she jumps on Macron in front of all cameras because she perfectly knows every past president had no balls and conceded everything when on video. She goes for asylum because this is the trick today, asking asylum grants you incredible rights and advantages and its instant. Then Macron does the unexpected and politically incorrect thing, he says "go home, there is no existing law here which could help you". And only then she comes with the "my parents are sick" fuzzy argument, because she knows there will always be naive idiots with hippie agendas who will fail for.
And is never a german, a swedish or some english who act like this but always some muslim, like we didn't have enough of them. Country is partitioned, we have dozens of zones where the police, ambulances or firefighters can't go through without being violently attacked, we have thousands of muslims occupying important streets during friday's prayer, wtf. They hate us to death yet we still allow millions more to come in on shallow reasons, until there will be a civil war, because thats the only way this can finish.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 24, 2017 10:10 PM |
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You can always go back to Romania if you don't like it in France.
That should be a primitive enough point for you to understand.
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Salamandre
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posted November 24, 2017 10:14 PM |
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But this is NOT the France I came to 20 years ago, it became such thanks to people like you who clearly hate their own culture and fellow citizens then want them destroyed. So I don't see what I have to sacrifice my dreams and all my efforts because you and others are in need of virtue signaling and think that past sins deserve a short death. My country didn't oppress nobody, neither attacked nobody, I have nothing to ask forgiveness for. You, on the other side, I can understand, but do it for yourself and leave others out of your madness.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 24, 2017 11:13 PM |
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Sal said:
And is never a german, a swedish or some english who act like this
1- Are they as frequently or ever in a situation that they have to? They have free pass and better income. I don't know if the woman's situation is genuine or a publicity stunt as you suggest, only read about her in here, but if it is real (which can be the case in reverse, maybe she jumped Macron because she was desperate to stay with them), then keep in mind that even buying a plane ticket can be a very big expense for someone from Morocco.
2- Had they acted like that, would the nneewspapers cover the story, would they even consider it "a story" and would you hear about it? No, because the media circus you complain about doesnt only exist for the liberal audience. African wanting to stay is controversial front page material, Swedish wont even cover the room of a foot note.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 24, 2017 11:35 PM |
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Excuse my French, but you sound like an imbecile. YOUR France? You think you have a right on things staying like they are? Sheldon's Big Bang Theory? The world is changing each second, and you are just sounding like the next guy looking for someone to BLAME for everything that's wrong.
You say Quote:
No idea why you insist on an irrelevant detail as what about her parents,
Really? I think it's pretty easy. If the parents have staying rights in France - why would the daughter not be allowed to stay?
If the parents don't have staying rights - but are sick and will be treated in France as long as it takes (which costs a lot of money) then it makes no sense to NOT let the daughter stay until they can be sent home.
It's fairly simple, actually, and the only thing you have to do is, you have to put yourselves in their shoes - which incidentally is something sociopaths are unable to.
Me - I would say, as a woman living in a predominant muslim country she has EVERY reason asking for asylum in a secular country, but I wouldn't make that point because I don't think the potential asylants would understand it. I'm sure I dislike religion in general and muslimic religion specifically at least as much as you, but I also dislike dictatorships; you cannot judge people just because they have the bad fortune to be born under some blight.
That doesn't mean we should just take in everyone - but please, I mean, what happens in the Near East isn't some freak of nature disaster, it's obviously something WE - our political leadership - brought about or at least couldn't avoid, which means that we not only share a responsibility as fellow humans, we also share a responsibility as having part in bringing things about. YOUR France just as the US or Germany.
And what is that nonsense about destruction of OUR culture? MY culture would look pretty anemic without the Italian, Turkish, Greek, Arab, Indian, Asian, Persian, Mongolian and other restaurants, food shops - oh, and cleaning personell, and I suppose without the African stuff France would be missing something as well. Not that long ago, a big shop in Hamburg removed everything not from Germany from their shelves for a Saturday - and people made no secret about how they felt about that. Shop was pretty empty, it seems.
So - it's actually pretty easy. No one likes beggars sitting on your doorstep whimpering for a coin. The problem, though, isn't the beggar. The problem is, that the fracking powers that have all the might and money you can have are screwing up and play games at the expense of those without any might and any money - and try to find someone to blame on one hand and try to hand the responsibility for their fate to YOU on another.
They just make you believe that the problem isn't the elite of 1% who own most of the workd. but that the problem are the people that just want to GET A LIFE because they have none and can get it only on YOUR expense.
But in fact, they should get it on the expense of that 1%.
THAT is the actual war.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 25, 2017 01:35 AM |
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artu said:
1- Are they as frequently or ever in a situation that they have to? They have free pass and better income. I don't know if the woman's situation is genuine or a publicity stunt as you suggest, only read about her in here, but if it is real (which can be the case in reverse, maybe she jumped Macron because she was desperate to stay with them), then keep in mind that even buying a plane ticket can be a very big expense for someone from Morocco.
There is a context, artu. Over the last years we had millions of people, mostly young men, 80% of them being unable to prove their age, identity or nationality, 62% of them refusing to have their prints taken, but 100% of them telling same story about running away from terrible wars. Then we found out the majority were from Algeria, from Morocco, from Tunisia, from tons of African countries actually not in war and so on, while only 5% or so were from actual war zones. When you have such distressing phenomenon, basically creating a parallel culture beside the tremendous cost we well know, I don't think is safe or even smart to fail for every individual story, without solid checking. Today only 2% of the people being refused asylum rights are deported back, so how can you believe this woman will be just thrown away if she can prove her parents life or health depends on her care? Come on, France is the most generous and tolerant country in the world, it proved it endless times. If that woman wants to stay in France, she will do so the same way as the 15 million muslims already here. She is denied asylum though and I find worrisome that you guys insist on that, what is asylum, a simple card to a gym center?
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