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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: What to do with Dark Elves and Faceless
Thread: What to do with Dark Elves and Faceless This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Zum-Graat
Zum-Graat

Tavern Dweller
posted May 13, 2017 01:27 AM
Edited by Zum-Graat at 01:27, 13 May 2017.

You know, we had elves among Warlocks since Heroes 1


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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted May 13, 2017 01:31 AM

Zum-Graat said:
To be fair, classic Heroes stole some things from D&D without even changing it in any way. I can see similarities between Illithids and Faceless, but even if they are based on them, they are changed enough to feel pretty different.


for my share I think Erwin was playing his World of Warcraft which he loves even more than Heroes (which is not saying much) and encountered the Faceless in that game which were based on Cthulhu, cast his mind back to the halcyon days of playing Dungeons and Dragons in his homeland Brettonia with his old friends Yves and Fabrice and, because he cannot use the Ithilid because it is under copyright to Wizard of the Coast, merely merged the two into one thing then called it a day lol

I do not have a problem with this deficit of creativity because as you say it is not out of the ordinary in Heroes, but I am merely saying it is very late in the day to start chopping and changing the main races a good five or six games in, after all one could also easily copy paste a Bugbear and say that the Bugbears are now the great leaders of the Preserve/Sylvan (maybe even change him a little so that he is a Bearbug, very unique) but it would not make much sense or go down well lol

Zum-Graat said:
And you say that Minotaurs are the face of Dungeon, I disagree with this statement. The face of Dungeon is (Black) Dragon, all other creatures you can change freely IMHO.


albeit I do not mean to put a fine point on it but bear in mind one cannot really disagree, canonically in the four official games it is the Minotaur and the Black Dragon who are the main constants of Dungeon and a Black Dragon cannot really be a race to lead the faction, thus it being the Minotaur,
of course one can say I would prefer to have a Dark Elf or an Ithilid as a personal preference but to say the Minotaur leads the Dungeon is as uncontroversial canonically as to say the Elf leads the Preserve and the Ogre leads the Stronghold cheers lol
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted May 13, 2017 08:09 AM

I thought they were closer to the dark people with some mothman thrown in for good measure. The voice, the shared consciousness, the floating, the knowledge collecting.. This all looks too much to be a coincidence. And then there is No-Face from spirited away
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 13, 2017 09:21 AM

Galaad said:



What a delightful way to say you can't stand people having a  different opinion from you. Although judging from it you are not too serious... hopefully.

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted May 15, 2017 09:00 AM

I love Galaad, keep your tongue in check woman! ;-p

Those gifs made me giggle.

Anyway, those gifs also are my opinion about the dark elves and faceless.

Keep that ashan-crap outta my homm games will ya.

Im against this whole race-based units and rather see homm3 styled towns. If you need an underground race try something different, too lazy to put up examples

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted May 15, 2017 10:34 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 10:56, 15 May 2017.

r/killthosewhodisagree

Anyways, while I think dark elves and faceless aren't bad ideas, H5-H6 dungeon did suffer from glaring issues where the end result didn't look quite right... Most notably H5's stripper outfits and H6's excess purple. Sorta felt like in both cases they didn't quite understood where exactly they're going with it.

Personally, I think that H7 dungeon found the right balance between the 'darkness' aspect and the, well, 'might and magic' aspect that felt somewhat neglected in H6.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted May 15, 2017 10:58 AM

Sligneris said:
I think that H7 dungeon found the right balance





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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 15, 2017 11:21 AM

I'll have to agree with Galaad on that one, Wannabe slender was a mistake. A manticore or actual faceless would have worked better.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted May 15, 2017 11:25 AM
Edited by Galaad at 11:26, 15 May 2017.

Mediczero said:
I'll have to agree with Galaad on that one


Yay

Quote:
A manticore or actual faceless would have worked better.


BUT THE COMMUNITY VOTED AGAINST IT REMEMBER

Quote:
or actual faceless



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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted May 15, 2017 11:32 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 11:44, 15 May 2017.

What measure is a single unit?



Strider is kind of weird, and a manticore would indeed have worked better... but you're grossly overreacting, as usual.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 15, 2017 11:33 AM

Galaad said:
Yay

Yes, it do actually happens that I agree with you one some specific topics. Sometimes. Like the stupidity of that unit.

Quote:
BUT THE COMMUNITY VOTED AGAINST IT REMEMBER

Remember we literally only had three options, only one of which had the manticore (and it still had the slenderwannabe)
It would have been better if the made a popularity poll of the different creatures and constructed the lineup based of the results (still with gameplay in mind though).

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted May 15, 2017 12:07 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 12:28, 15 May 2017.

It's almost like you guys don't take notice of, you know... the good units?

Both elven units complement the line-up well without needless elf bloat, which H5 had huge issues with. Along with it we have iconic stuff like black dragons, hydras, medusae, minotaurs and a cave wyvern for sieges. These units is what I think of when I talk about such balance.

And, well, I suppose my point was that this is more or less the direction I expect to see more of in the future.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted May 15, 2017 12:16 PM

Sligernis said:
It's almost like you guys don't take notice of, you know... the good units?

Both elven units complement the line-up well without needless elf bloat, which H5 had huge issues with. Along with it we have iconic stuff like black dragons, hydras, medusae, minotaurs and a cave wyvern for sieges. These units is what I think of when I talk about such balance.

And, well, I suppose my point was that this is more or less the direction I expect to see more off in the future.


you are basically saying let us settle with small mercies but personally I think that is a beggar's way out, a couple of dark elves to remain the main centerpiece race deciding the town visuals, theme and heroes and and hog valuable lineup spots may be fine for you,

but to extend my analogy further it is like building a Rampart or Preserve around Bugbears to basically kick out the Elves, totally bizarre and unnecessary to deserve all criticism, but hey chill down everyone there is only one or two Bugbear units it is not a big deal and the faction still has its identity you are overreacting cheers lol
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 15, 2017 12:16 PM
Edited by Mediczero at 12:17, 15 May 2017.

For the record, I agree with Sligneris. I just think the Strider was a mistake.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 15, 2017 01:18 PM
Edited by MattII at 13:28, 15 May 2017.

Voted "Keep Faceless in Dungeon, but eliminate Dark Elves". Not that I'm biased against the dark elves, I wouldn't mind finding a substitute for the other elves either, because, quite frankly, they're boring.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted May 15, 2017 01:40 PM

Sligneris said:
Both elven units complement the line-up well
Two too many.
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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 15, 2017 02:03 PM

Gryphs said:
Two too many.

Actually, it would have been better if one of them had been an elite mage unit, while the other could have stayed an assassin.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 15, 2017 02:28 PM

Gryphs said:
Sligneris said:
Both elven units complement the line-up well
Two too many.
Agreed. Okay my setting will have elves, but they're not like normal elves, they don't see themselves as different from humans, because they are (or at least used to be) humans, way back before the evil empire conquered most of the world. The only reason they survived with their culture intact is because the archipelago on which they'd set up home was so small, remote and inhospitable that it would have taken more effort to hold it than it was actually worth.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted May 15, 2017 02:44 PM

MattII said:
Agreed. Okay my setting will have elves, but they're not like normal elves, they don't see themselves as different from humans, because they are (or at least used to be) humans, way back before the evil empire conquered most of the world. The only reason they survived with their culture intact is because the archipelago on which they'd set up home was so small, remote and inhospitable that it would have taken more effort to hold it than it was actually worth.

From a writing perspective that could work, but you should probably have them not entirely be humans anymore because magic and stuff. If not, you are really bad of using elves.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted May 15, 2017 03:22 PM

Make Dungeon Great Again. Down with the usurpers. Dungeon belongs to Minotaurs (& troglodytes)
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