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| Thread: Question regarding Townscreen Design |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 01:48 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 13:50, 23 May 2017.
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Sory in fact here you have full 3d isometric effect:
Better?
And here "ugly" ,"amateur" handmaking:
As you see NWC was 2D masters and 3D0 should named 2D0. All hits are 2D. MMVI-VIII its 2,5D but creatures are sprites. Full 3D like HIV, MMIX, or horrible trashy games Crusaders, Warriors, Shifters looks worst and worst than 2D Heroes II.
Im not a enemy 3d technic and it help but theres no data that 3D is more beuty.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 23, 2017 02:01 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 14:04, 23 May 2017.
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for sure your cherrypick rant is odd and misguided mate, for the Heroes 2 townscreens were also a beautiful blend of 2D and 3D lol
for my share it is silly to argue that one dimension is better than another to use because it is all in the style skill and execution not the dimensions, plus the best town screens tend to use a mix lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 23, 2017 02:07 PM |
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Baronus said:
And here "ugly" ,"amateur" handmaking:
No-one qualified 2D with these terms. What Warmonger meant was the frankenstein aspect of gluing things together, we're not in h7 subforums for 2d to get trashed just for the sake of 2d. 
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 03:42 PM |
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Edited by orzie at 15:44, 23 May 2017.
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Salamandre said:
I think it doesn't matter much, it is not true that 3D can achieve -as absolute- better quality than 2D, it depends on what you seek. But with the technical tools available, which get upgraded every month or so, it became much less time consuming and easier to go for 3D. We know Hota creatures are 3D made, as for the dwellings, I'm not that sure: the fact that they were able to correct so many graphical errors in original graphics, which are only 2D available, show they master the 2D as well.
It's always 3d rendering, my friend. Yet, 2d editing is also a necessary step.
The only HoMM game with townscreens made in pure 2d was Heroes 1.
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Drslash
Hired Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 04:46 PM |
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Edited by Drslash at 16:48, 23 May 2017.
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As Orzie said, all townscreens in HoMM2-4 were modeled and rendered in 3D and later edited in 2D to various degrees. Buildings were always modeled in 3D and the background itself could be a mix of 2D images, 3D-modeled terrain and 3D-generated terrain. This is also how Cove town screen was made.
Salamandre is right, while almost all of HotA's original content is made in 3D, there is a lot of 2D work going on as well. Almost all 3D renders require some amount of 2D postprocessing to look authentic enough.
Despite what Baronus believes, it took less than a year to make Cove, not ten years  And while the graphics might not be the most important aspect of towns in Heroes 3, the problem is that most of the mods with bad graphics are executed just as poorly gameplay and concept-wise, since theor authors aren't commited enough to think out these aspects properly and put any effort into their work.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted May 23, 2017 04:53 PM |
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So 3D is or not mandatory? The game will read 3D or 2D input when you are importing your work? Can a skilled 2D work, considered proper precautions, suffice or one would have to meddle with 3D to actually have something properly working in the end?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 23, 2017 05:00 PM |
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The game reads 2D files. 3D is not mandatory, but will make your town fit better in the game if you hit the right settings. Plus, it's a lot easier to change positions and perspective.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 23, 2017 05:12 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 17:14, 23 May 2017.
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townscreen is just a regular 2D image (small bit of format converting and palette tweaking needed), then the buildings are just animated overlays of the same type of 2D images like in a Photoshop with the layers, when we talk about the 3D townscreens we are just saying the art of the town was rendered in 3D and then they took a 2D screenshot of it and put it in the game, but you could make a functional townscreen with Microsoft Paint and just a bit of conversion lol
if you get the program MMArchive and use it to open the data file h3bitmap.lod you can see how the town screens are put together (only takes two minutes) lol
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 05:17 PM |
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Had 3DO saved 3D models we would have had better HD version than painted Ubisoft edition. This is the difference between 2D and 3D as well, render is usually going to look more realistic than plastic Ubi.
While I do agree that most of game assets were 3D (well, that's the fact), it is still possible to make something good out of 2D graphic skills, but you need to have much more knowledge about lighting and perspective yourself. For example we had this project once on acid cave done by talented 2D artist Hei-reg. Before you ask, it is either abandoned or frozen for long time (last graphic from author is from November 2014)
So it can be done with town screen alone, good luck though with doing creatures with this method
Here you can find some solid concepts for town. As a 3D artist myself I would say this would be extremely helpful thing to have concepcts in 2D done first.
So finishing thought is: You can utilize both method alone, but best results will be produced by mix of both
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 05:26 PM |
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But you show me cutscenes :-) Its not town screen! Compare it! Townscreen is handpainting:-)
In fact Heroes III town dont look like 3d render :-) Buildings are modeled but are pasted in 2d background :-)
See movie and town. Its another look. I think that movie is film making trainig. I think if all town was completly rendered in 3d we should have eg. promo movie all towns. Not only rampart.
HIV towns dont look like renders too. Building was rendered not all city! Its not the same!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 23, 2017 05:36 PM |
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They all were rendered in 3d, then placed on a 2d screen.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 23, 2017 05:36 PM |
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Baronus said:
But you show me cutscenes :-) Its not town screen! Compare it! Townscreen is handpainting:-)
In fact Heroes III town dont look like 3d render :-) Buildings are modeled but are pasted in 2d background :-)
See movie and town. Its another look. I think that movie is film making trainig. I think if all town was completly rendered in 3d we should have eg. promo movie all towns. Not only rampart.
mate pay a bit more close attention mate, once again nobody is saying H2 or H3 have townscreens "completely rendered in 3D" but they are actually a a combination of both 2D and 3D assets with lots of postprocessing, you were the one saying they are completely 2D,
look closely at the Castle and the Mountains in the Sorceress town mate, just like in the cinematic they are made with an early 3D program and an early 3D landscape generator lol
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted May 23, 2017 06:32 PM |
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Nephretes said:
While I do agree that most of game assets were 3D (well, that's the fact), it is still possible to make something good out of 2D graphic skills, but you need to have much more knowledge about lighting and perspective yourself. For example we had this project once on acid cave done by talented 2D artist Hei-reg. Before you ask, it is either abandoned or frozen for long time (last graphic from author is from November 2014)
Got it. I was more curious about townscreens being created these days and why they were created like this or like that. ^_^
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 07:57 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 20:00, 23 May 2017.
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I remind. No putting 3d objects on 2d back . I saw original graphics. If I found I paste. Its fortress.
They rendered net and painted this net. Full city rendering is to much work and dont needed. They dont have time.
Its texturing net backround.
See how it was in weapon to MMVI example. City was the same method 2,5 D:
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Nephretes
Promising
Known Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 09:09 PM |
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@Baronus
You clearly don't know anything about 3D graphics. This "net" is called "polygon mesh" and it is mesh of model - object alone before it get textured and rendered for final sprite in a game.
Here it is how it looks based on object I was doing for another mod:
From polygon mesh, through textured and rendered final object
I do hope you realize how silly this "painting" of net sounds when you have ready 3D object
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 23, 2017 09:16 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 21:17, 23 May 2017.
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:-) I know how is rendering :-):-):-) If I told simple it doesnt mean I dont know. I want to people understand me.
Here I found rendering from net its not HIII but method is the same:
If they made only town screen they mustnt rendering all points. Only one picture was enough. They can painting by hand this net. I think in this way maybe was done HII ecrans looking like hand picture.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 23, 2017 10:53 PM |
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It's quite simple, really. By using a 3D render, you can rotate the object as you please and find the best viewing angle with respect to the rest. The lighting is calculated alongside this rendering. Once you're satisfied with how it's positioned within the overal setting, you make a screenshot. Such a screenshot is inherently 2D - but it's still a 3D origin. However, you no longer have to render the 3D object then, as you can display your town screen or monster or whatever as a set of 2D graphics, based off of the screenshots made.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted May 23, 2017 10:56 PM |
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And then the buildings added to it are clipped pngs, layered above it?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted May 24, 2017 08:07 AM |
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Quote:
Low numbers of downloaded mods its a result that people still dont know what is VCMI
VCMI 0.97 for Android was installed over 497 thousand times. That's more than any of the town, I suppose? There was no mod manager in that version, either.
Quote:
If I told simple it doesnt mean I dont know. I want to people understand me.
I want you to understand people. Apparently you're the only one here who doesn't know what he's talking about.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 24, 2017 09:09 AM |
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:-):-):-)
Yes people downloaded it and... DONT WORK! REMOVE! I GIVE IT RATING 1. :-):-):-)
Googleplay downloading telling nothig. How you can compare mobile store with mods outside store!!!! ... All free you put in android store have thousends downloads. I DOESNT MEAN THAT PEOPLE PLAY IT! If they know how to install HII! (How many of downloads are: take-dont work-remove)15 minuts its not a playing. Only real rating is pc downloading from site.
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Panda
With 3D tools you can put color each square of net. And then you have "skin" or texture like skin from boar...
I think they can modeled net and painting it by hand in HII. In HIII it may by textured 3d and maybe with light manipulation tool.
Background screen maybe 2D. Full 3d city is a lot of work and for what? They need only picture. Why painting back sides of buildings which we never see?
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