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Heroes Community > Summoners Academy > Thread: General Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: General Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
Proud Leader of DARK LORDS
posted July 19, 2017 09:08 PM


Quote:

PS detonate should also not be an ultra rare ability.  Basically 90% of all creatures with burn or poison should have a built in detonate if fully awakened.




+1to this, detonate is really rare curently and some creatures that have it also apply a poison effect that usualy is not that strong. So you detonate and pay the price to give immunity against stronger poisons since you automatically apply a weaker one and poisons dont stack.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 20, 2017 01:30 AM

I also agree with making poisoning more effective. Spider is good, others not so much.
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted July 22, 2017 11:38 AM

I think the way stun works against attacking creatures needs to be looked at. Now it's vastly better than any other ability. Hindering a creature from acting is in itself a very strong ability, but in addition it does all these things:
- Stun immunity does not apply for attacking creatures (deliberate or bug). Say your creature gets stunned for two rounds, and eventually is ready to act again. If you act with other creatures first, the previously stunned creature can be stunned again the same turn without having acted.
- Tickers of defending creatures continue to decrease as if your stunned creatures acted. So stun makes all defending creatures act faster between turns, like giving all defenders an extra combo dot for each stunned creature.
- Stunned creatures do not contribute with mana balls.
- You can stop combos from activating.

Silence is perhaps a stronger ability than stun for attackers, but in defence it doesn't even come close. At least you should not be able to re-stun a creature before it has acted, and the tickers of defending creatures should only decrease when an attacking creature acts.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 22, 2017 06:16 PM

@Bruk

The problem with stun is that if you don't have it you have no chance to defend, with the current system nerfing stun is the same as just giving a free pass to any attacker with decent party. I am personally extremely unhappy they removed the Epic slot in first wave for the 3 waves setup, as it means now wave 1 is nothing else than mana feed, then wave 2 and 3 are a joke because all you need to do is shoot specials and voilą.

Possibly many people complained because of the Templar, but I know for a fact many players could counter it, it's a strategy game after all and I don't like it when things become easier. For instance my worst enemy for a long time was the blue Drake, until I figured out appropriate counter. It's always great to finally crack a defense you couldn't beat before. Then of course, you also need the right creatures and party setups, but the very core of the game is about hunting for creatures, as its name implies.

PvP has always been a problem with an imo way too large gap between ATK and DEF rates, things should be made in a way the average of ATK/DEF would be 50/50.

Sadly I cannot think of a way to drastically improve the PvP as of yet, as others suggested in the past it needs a major overhaul.
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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
Proud Leader of DARK LORDS
posted July 24, 2017 11:26 AM

I say it is great that they removed the large slot in the 3 waves def. The 3 wave defense purpose was, at least this is the way I saw it, an alternative for new players which didn't had enough creatures for a 5 waves dungeon and that's it! No way such a defense should be successfully used by top players in gold!

3 wave is ok for bronze and silver and even in gold if you have good large creatures you can stay at 3.5-4k prestige with a 3waves defense.

The next tier defense should be the 5 waves defense and everyone in gold should start to use it. I encountered some examples of really powerful 5 waves dungeons that defeated my team right from the first wave. And I am not weak, I am an above average player who always ends in top 100 at the end of the dungeon event.

I think the developers of the game, successfully reached their goal by taking out the large creature in the 3 waves: they bringed more diversity in the dungeon defenses,  while keeping it competitive. Because as it is now, it is competitive. I don't feel it is too easy and like me are most of the creature quest players.

@Galaad I think your proposals are too exclusivist, you are part of the top tier 1-2% players so is normal that you can defeat most of the current dungeon defenses. If is too easy for you it doesn't mean is too easy for everyone, it just means that you are lucky enough to have a strong team. I'm not saying that is not relevant that for you, any defense are too easy, but I think the game is pretty ok as it is now. The only thing I would add, is a way to lose (some) mana at the start of every wave.

Maybe they should also implement a 4th tier, like diamond tier, where a special 5 waves template should exist with 2 large creatures in the first wave, so then the elite of creature quest could feel again that other player's defenses are challenging for them )


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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
Proud Leader of DARK LORDS
posted July 24, 2017 11:31 AM

Brukernavn said:

- Stunned creatures do not contribute with mana balls.



At least this one they should definitely change, stunned creatures not contributing with mana balls is too over powered. In pvp a lucky well placed stun in wave 1 can totally break your team.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 24, 2017 12:04 PM
Edited by Galaad at 12:05, 24 Jul 2017.

Quote:
I say it is great that they removed the large slot in the 3 waves def. The 3 wave defense purpose was, at least this is the way I saw it, an alternative for new players which didn't had enough creatures for a 5 waves dungeon and that's it! No way such a defense should be successfully used by top players in gold!


Hm no. The reason strong players used 3 waves was because of the Epic slot. It changes everything. Then it was months and months of optimization to get the right creatures with the good amount of dots, then awakening and totems. That change has been extremely punishing to this immense investment from many players.

The thing is, in Gold, competitive players have team full of lvl 105 and with how the current system works there is no way a first wave lacking an Epic can stop them. Top players all have 100% ATK rate unless a crash currently, which made the game do a step back like in the old days where the amount of time invested along amount of CPs one could buy and late hours activity was the most important factor. It shouldn't be like this imo, it is hard to get a good defense and takes a lot of time, just look at the average of defense rates, with the new wave it has roughly been cut in half for most (some who used to have around 70% now have 40%). Strategy and tactics should be the most relevant factor, it started to go in that direction with Templar, but I really feel like 6 months ago now, a huge step back from my perspective.

Quote:
@Galaad I think your proposals are too exclusivist, you are part of the top tier 1-2% players so is normal that you can defeat most of the current dungeon defenses.


But it has always been like this. At lvl 100 I could defeat 200+ players. Granted, I had a lucky start with creatures but that only sped things up. This is not exclusive to me, people around lvl 150 beat my defense while I am 300+. People in top 10 should all be above 50% def rate imo, optimizing a defense during half a year for a mediocre rate becomes depressing.

Quote:
Maybe they should also implement a 4th tier, like diamond tier


Something I thought about but it only moves the problem a tier up. Imagine most top players suddenly unable to get a greater essence, they will be thrilled.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto č possibile
posted July 24, 2017 12:46 PM

Yeah, imo the new dungeon set for 3 waves is really painful.

The story of dungeon defense goes like this: first, we put in a five waves dungeon all the cretures we had in a quantity will protect me mentality. Then we discovered that quality matters way more than quantity as mana fill is dangerous for defense. After that we came to the point where the first wave was the most important, the one which in probably every case determines if the attacker will win or lose.

With the new set, the first wave is screwed, lets you charge mana, to prepare for the second wave, more challenging, but you're more prepared, and can stun the flying epic, silence it, nuke it... etc. Something you couldn't do with the former set.

I propose the old three wave set to be put again in the gold tier, and let the bronze and silver with this new one. Because now, def rates are falling again, and the only factor that determines if you'll rank or not are your time, the capacity of your eyes to keep watching a screen for hours (which is unhealthy, CQ) and of course the amount of cash you can put into diamonds to by blue balls again and again.

Sorry but defense is as important as attack in this game. You ought to raise many cretures, of all tiers, to totem, level up and awaken them and find the right combinations to defend your dungeon.

Not merely getting five legendaries, full proofing them, and attack and attack and attack. This is not the way it should be.
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"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2017 01:30 PM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 13:42, 24 Jul 2017.

Why on earth do you all care so much? I have trouble with 90% of the defenses right now. I never attack 3 wave dungeons as they simply put a weak creature in the first wave and then spawn light elemental and draconian in second wave, without mana they crush my party in seconds.

In 5 waves they do the same, one weak cheat-creature in the first wave then the second wave as power houses that simply crush my mana-less team in seconds.

I want those cheaters to be punished, everyone who puts only a single creature in the first wave can't finish the dungeon in gold tier. You can't compete if you not fill your dungeon 100%.

Please attack the dungeon of Stickers-Member (Extreme payer) Zadie. I'm sure you will fail against his second wave (3 wave dungeon) draconian/beetle/wyvern/boggart (all 4 dots) wave.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 24, 2017 02:06 PM

Rakshasa92 said:
Please attack the dungeon of Stickers-Member (Extreme payer) Zadie. I'm sure you will fail against his second wave (3 wave dungeon) draconian/beetle/wyvern/boggart (all 4 dots) wave.


Hmm he's doesn't seem to be in my group, what is his defense rate?
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"Corribus is a teddy bear" - Blizzardboy

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
Proud Leader of DARK LORDS
posted July 24, 2017 02:32 PM
Edited by Bragjul at 15:19, 24 Jul 2017.

Regarding the offense percentages, you should also take into consideration the people who could attack your dungeon but they choose to avoid it because almost certainly they would lose against it. This is one of the reasons def rates are significantly smaller in comparison with the offense rates.

*An idea here: when triggering a challenge, a random opponent should show up, this way you can't cherry pick your opponents every time and this will boost a bit the def rates and lower the offense rates.
______________________________

I keep my statement that a 99% percentage attacking success is really hard to achieve & reserved only for the top players of this game.

Asking to boost the defense potential by allowing an epic in wave 1 is not the answer, be honest now did you really enjoyed PVPing when everyone had the same copy paste 3w dungeon with templar?( and a few other using blue Dragon instead of the templar which was even more OP)

Speaking about PVP it should be an enjoyable and competitive experience for 3 different type of players:
1) New players - I'd say the 3 wave dungeon as it is now, is good enough for them
2) Average and above average players - which are the most
3) Top players, players that can choose from a vast creature collection(owning most of the meta creatures.)

For types 2) and 3) I'd say the 5 waves templates that are rotating every week could be the right answer BUT with a few tweaks and improvements on the way.

To sum up mine suggestions:
- (5w dungeon)find the right template for wave one.  For example this week's 5 wave template: what if they will add a medium creature instead of one of the smalls in first wave , or switch a flying medium with a ground medium and so on.. they need to keep try and test until they will find the right templates every week.
- find a way to make the waves following up the 1st wave more challenging(a way to lose mana?)
- cherry picking your adversaries should not be an option. Random opponents could be a nice way to balance a bit off/deff percentages
- additional small and medium creatures with new abilities - this will give more option to build up a good defense
- fix poison & burn mechanics

*and one extra suggestion, more for the fun factor-> boost AND nerf the boss creatures: I want to literally fight a boss, not stun - nuke him and that's it fight over, so please boost his HP multiplier in dungeons. The boss should survive enough in order to attack at least once, BUT his one attack should not be enough to wipe out a whole team.











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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2017 03:03 PM

Bragjul said:

BUT his one attack should not be enough to wipe out a whole team.







And this goes for Dark Angel,  Valkyrie (WTF) Sphinx and the Sand Worm.

They should be nerfed down. When my stun doesn't work against them they instantly nuke and kill my whole team (even colors that are good against them) when they are fully awake and patched with totems.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 24, 2017 05:51 PM

Quote:
be honest now did you really enjoyed PVPing when everyone had the same copy paste 3w dungeon with templar?


I was annoyed that everyone had the same defense as it killed variety but I genuinely enjoyed it more. Because you actually had to come up with a strategy. It took me a while to crack the 4d Blue Drake defenses which were stopping me for a while, and it felt rewarding to finally beat them, with the same team comp. Same with Templar, I lost against many during the first days, to finally be able to pass them. My defense started to become more or less viable. My interest in PvP grew back. Right now, sure there is more variety, but there is no challenge. It is normal for lower level players to not be able to beat strongest dungeons, but you will realize sooner or later, once your creatures are awakened enough, how weak the current system is.

I will tell you what the main issue is, the main issue is that from the moment your creatures got mana, all threat is gone. This is why so many people use a lvl 1 unit in w1 so that there is the Epic before the mana fill. Yet, by doing that, attacker already gathers a decent amount of mana which allows him to shoot specials at least one turn earlier, which is decisive. On top of that, when you don't have a full dungeon your Boss doesn't benefit from the boost, but who cares anyway as with a full dungeon you face him with full mana and he disappears as soon as he appears (stun/nuke zzZZzz).

We all aim for the greater essences as they are the most valuable item of the game for your creatures, and I assure you the folks in top 25 can roughly beat any dungeon, which makes the whole experience tedious and a bit boring.

Should Bosses get a 100% stun resist for first strike? Should mana get reset on each wave, or at least diminished enough so you can't use it first turn?

Quote:
Speaking about PVP it should be an enjoyable and competitive experience for 3 different type of players:
1) New players - I'd say the 3 wave dungeon as it is now, is good enough for them
2) Average and above average players - which are the most
3) Top players, players that can choose from a vast creature collection(owning most of the meta creatures.)


I think this is a fine idea, I'd even go further and suggest customizable layouts so people can create setups that are more in line with the creatures they got, so that the optimization gets a bit more personal, for a better challenge AND more variety. But I feel like I'm asking for the moon here...

Quote:
To sum up mine suggestions:
- (5w dungeon)find the right template for wave one.  For example this week's 5 wave template: what if they will add a medium creature instead of one of the smalls in first wave , or switch a flying medium with a ground medium and so on.. they need to keep try and test until they will find the right templates every week.
- find a way to make the waves following up the 1st wave more challenging(a way to lose mana?)
- cherry picking your adversaries should not be an option. Random opponents could be a nice way to balance a bit off/deff percentages
- additional small and medium creatures with new abilities - this will give more option to build up a good defense
- fix poison & burn mechanics


I'd say at least allow players in Gold to have an Epic wave 1, as anything below kills all fun once you've reached several milestones in the game.
For the rest of your suggestions I concur and think they are good ones.
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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2017 06:29 PM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 18:33, 24 Jul 2017.

Galaad said:
Quote:
be honest now did you really enjoyed PVPing when everyone had the same copy paste 3w dungeon with templar?


I was annoyed that everyone had the same defense as it killed variety but I genuinely enjoyed it more. Because you actually had to come up with a strategy. It took me a while to crack the 4d Blue Drake defenses which were stopping me for a while, and it felt rewarding to finally beat them, with the same team comp. Same with Templar, I lost against many during the first days, to finally be able to pass them. My defense started to become more or less viable. My interest in PvP grew back. Right now, sure there is more variety, but there is no challenge. It is normal for lower level players to not be able to beat strongest dungeons, but you will realize sooner or later, once your creatures are awakened enough, how weak the current system is.

I will tell you what the main issue is, the main issue is that from the moment your creatures got mana, all threat is gone. This is why so many people use a lvl 1 unit in w1 so that there is the Epic before the mana fill. Yet, by doing that, attacker already gathers a decent amount of mana which allows him to shoot specials at least one turn earlier, which is decisive. On top of that, when you don't have a full dungeon your Boss doesn't benefit from the boost, but who cares anyway as with a full dungeon you face him with full mana and he disappears as soon as he appears (stun/nuke zzZZzz).

We all aim for the greater essences as they are the most valuable item of the game for your creatures, and I assure you the folks in top 25 can roughly beat any dungeon, which makes the whole experience tedious and a bit boring.

Should Bosses get a 100% stun resist for first strike? Should mana get reset on each wave, or at least diminished enough so you can't use it first turn?

Quote:
Speaking about PVP it should be an enjoyable and competitive experience for 3 different type of players:
1) New players - I'd say the 3 wave dungeon as it is now, is good enough for them
2) Average and above average players - which are the most
3) Top players, players that can choose from a vast creature collection(owning most of the meta creatures.)


I think this is a fine idea, I'd even go further and suggest customizable layouts so people can create setups that are more in line with the creatures they got, so that the optimization gets a bit more personal, for a better challenge AND more variety. But I feel like I'm asking for the moon here...

Quote:
To sum up mine suggestions:
- (5w dungeon)find the right template for wave one.  For example this week's 5 wave template: what if they will add a medium creature instead of one of the smalls in first wave , or switch a flying medium with a ground medium and so on.. they need to keep try and test until they will find the right templates every week.
- find a way to make the waves following up the 1st wave more challenging(a way to lose mana?)
- cherry picking your adversaries should not be an option. Random opponents could be a nice way to balance a bit off/deff percentages
- additional small and medium creatures with new abilities - this will give more option to build up a good defense
- fix poison & burn mechanics


I'd say at least allow players in Gold to have an Epic wave 1, as anything below kills all fun once you've reached several milestones in the game.
For the rest of your suggestions I concur and think they are good ones.


That is nice and all.

But you are now being selfish. I mean you have God and Phoenix in your team, and probably 3 other very overpowered creatures. Nothing is a treat to your team, you just reincarnate and ressurect... Something many people can't do. I don't have a single 3 dot ressurect unit worth my time for the record.

Other people trapped in gold competition (like me) aren't that lucky, and no way those dungeons are too easy. I beat just as much dungeons as they kill me. Loose one stun to a sphinx and my entire team is dead or cripple for the next monster wave. Every wave can kill me. Sphinx even kills my Forest Giant instantly, I don't understand if this is an error or just a sphinx ability...

I enjoy this much more though than the previous all-waves-kill-me stupid draconian 3 waves bore. I'm glad they are dead.

And to be honest I kinda wish many greater essence old-players get bored with the game, so many stickers and other players quit and I can end up higher in the ranking.

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scurvynaive
scurvynaive


Adventuring Hero
posted July 24, 2017 07:22 PM

So disappointed that VCM went this way for pvp.

I actually find myself choosing to not attack at all sometimes unless I can find another top player in my list. Any time I see a top three I fist pump because I can actually gain points by beating them.

Don't know or care why one person is still having trouble beating half full 5 wave dungeons, the facts are that almost everyone can beat almost anyone and that is no fun at all.

I would say there are maybe three or 4 people capable of making a scary 5 wave dungeon and everyone else is just thrown to the dogs.

Was it perfect that everyone had a Templar dungeon?  Well no not really but the problem was not the difficulty, the problem was the fact that only one viable dungeon setup worked.  

The solution was (or should have been) a stronger 5 wave dungeon (maybe with a ground epic in wave 1) and/or a stronger monthly event to rival the Templar (like blue drake or cockatrice)

That would have created variety without compromising the ability to defend oneself.  

BOOOOOO VCM!!!  BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!



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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2017 09:56 PM

scurvynaive said:
So disappointed that VCM went this way for pvp.

I actually find myself choosing to not attack at all sometimes unless I can find another top player in my list. Any time I see a top three I fist pump because I can actually gain points by beating them.

Don't know or care why one person is still having trouble beating half full 5 wave dungeons, the facts are that almost everyone can beat almost anyone and that is no fun at all.

I would say there are maybe three or 4 people capable of making a scary 5 wave dungeon and everyone else is just thrown to the dogs.

Was it perfect that everyone had a Templar dungeon?  Well no not really but the problem was not the difficulty, the problem was the fact that only one viable dungeon setup worked.  

The solution was (or should have been) a stronger 5 wave dungeon (maybe with a ground epic in wave 1) and/or a stronger monthly event to rival the Templar (like blue drake or cockatrice)

That would have created variety without compromising the ability to defend oneself.  

BOOOOOO VCM!!!  BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!





Who are you anyway? You act like a cockatrice. Everything is simple for you. Must be boring being so good and narcistic. Go play Dark Souls wiseguy. Im sure you beat that game with a blindfold. Are you in  our team? If so id rather leave

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2017 10:00 PM

You all want a solution to have a harder game? Ditch your ressurection units you whimps. Then it will be harder. And ditch your phoenix while your at it.

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scurvynaive
scurvynaive


Adventuring Hero
posted July 24, 2017 10:39 PM

Rakshasa92 said:
You all want a solution to have a harder game? Ditch your ressurection units you whimps. Then it will be harder. And ditch your phoenix while your at it.


As stated many times before I have no phoenix or astral.  I made strategies that work with what I DO have instead of whining that I can't win because the game didn't give me what I need.

I do have a non-astral rezzer but many don't (or have them and don't bother using them) and they still do just fine.  You keep suggesting that the game is too difficult and yet 90% of the players well below my level are able to beat me with no problem.

I know it is not in your nature but you should look within for why you are not part of that 90% and stop blaming people who want a competitive...I repeat COMPETITIVE game.

No one is suggesting impossible, unbreakable defenses. Just something where a lvl 300 isn't easy picking for a lvl 150.  

Maybe I am wrong and maybe you are the unluckiest person in the game.  Post your level and list of legendary units if you want.  If you truly have units that are so bad they are incapable of beating a good dungeon then I will gladly take back everything and admit I am wrong.

Don't bother answering with anything less than said list as I have no interest in continuing this conversation and won't respond.

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted July 25, 2017 12:27 AM

scurvynaive said:
Rakshasa92 said:
You all want a solution to have a harder game? Ditch your ressurection units you whimps. Then it will be harder. And ditch your phoenix while your at it.


As stated many times before I have no phoenix or astral.  I made strategies that work with what I DO have instead of whining that I can't win because the game didn't give me what I need.

I do have a non-astral rezzer but many don't (or have them and don't bother using them) and they still do just fine.  You keep suggesting that the game is too difficult and yet 90% of the players well below my level are able to beat me with no problem.

I know it is not in your nature but you should look within for why you are not part of that 90% and stop blaming people who want a competitive...I repeat COMPETITIVE game.

No one is suggesting impossible, unbreakable defenses. Just something where a lvl 300 isn't easy picking for a lvl 150.  

Maybe I am wrong and maybe you are the unluckiest person in the game.  Post your level and list of legendary units if you want.  If you truly have units that are so bad they are incapable of beating a good dungeon then I will gladly take back everything and admit I am wrong.

Don't bother answering with anything less than said list as I have no interest in continuing this conversation and won't respond.
. Those level 150 people payed their way into victory. They dont count.

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
Proud Leader of DARK LORDS
posted July 25, 2017 09:00 AM

Upcoming update - don't know if anyone from the CQ devs are watching this forum but some of the changes were also mentioned here in this thread. Example: dungeon event start/end hours(really happy about this one!), essence for epic creatures.

Can't wait to see how this upcoming update will improve the effectiveness of small creatures in dungeon defenses.
- Not so happy about the addition of Cleanse ability to 3 other units.. floor 51 will start being  more accessible since more team options will come up.

Hopefully they will look soon into all our other suggestions of this thread

PS: @scurvynaive I'm in the same group as you are and even if is offtopic I can confrim that you don'w own a pheonix and neither the astral watcher. Your team includes two epic units, so GG for the high rank (ps2: my ingame name is Titanu88)

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