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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: What is the perfect balance between Armorer and Offense?
Thread: What is the perfect balance between Armorer and Offense?
orc
orc


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2017 08:48 AM

What is the perfect balance between Armorer and Offense?

Hello,

I have seen couple of threads that Offense bonus is better than armorer and all.

and they all mentioned that armorer works vs ranged and Offense help kill creatures faster, meaning less casualties and blablabla.

I did try WOG with 20% reduction from armorer and it seemed quite Overpowered, much stronger than offense.

Personally I think 15% is just fine.

But I am wondering, those who think Offense is better; what values would you argue are perfect balance between armoer and offense and why? I am thinking it is 25% for offense is fairly good.

thoughts? please ignore the armorer specialists because it makes it even harder to balance.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2017 09:44 AM

I think they are fairly good balanced at 30% and 15% already.
You must remember that Offense only affects melee attacks, while Armorer works on all physical damage.
Some towns benefit more from Offense than others, Tower with 3 ranged units won't benefit as much as Inferno or Fortress with only 1 shooter. Tower might consider Archery instead of Offense, or both Offense and Archery.
If we talk about Offense and Armorer specialists, that's when things starts to get OP, especially with Crag Hack and Tazar...

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 11:57 AM

Offence gives 30% but only face to face. So its in fact 25% bonus. Deffence is 15% but all might atacks. Deffence is little weak. Because 1,25/1 = 0.80 So 20% deffence is corrct.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted June 19, 2017 01:01 PM

No that is absurd, it is 24% not 25%.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 01:25 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:29, 19 Jun 2017.

@Baronus You are forgeting that Offense affects the base damage while Armorer affects the total damage recieved after the Attack-Deffense calculations are made. While it is still better to have more Deffense then the enemy attack, Armorer reduction is greather when the Deffense is lower and this is a BIG deal in MP. Against AI, Offense and Archery are much better then Armorer cause you take the map with ease, develop your hero faster and then trick AI to take minimal losses. Archangels and Clone rule, in this case.

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2017 05:00 PM

bloodsucker said:
@Baronus You are forgeting that Offense affects the base damage while Armorer affects the total damage recieved after the Attack-Deffense calculations are made. While it is still better to have more Deffense then the enemy attack, Armorer reduction is greather when the Deffense is lower and this is a BIG deal in MP. Against AI, Offense and Archery are much better then Armorer cause you take the map with ease, develop your hero faster and then trick AI to take minimal losses. Archangels and Clone rule, in this case.


yea, quite a significant point. It is also important to note that Armorer works wonders with other damage reductions as well (shield and stone skin etc)

However, I will add to OP that the main argument for pro-offense stance is that armorer does not work against spell damage and hence not always protect the army, whereas offense is always beneficial if you choose to use it (yes sometimes it is bad lets say with tower but it means you should just not pick it)

@Baronus @OhforfSake

and you say this based on what? under the assumption of army damage being 2/7 ranged, Offense overall bonus will be 21.43% , if it was only 1/7 ranged damage, then offense gives 25.71%

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 05:33 PM
Edited by Baronus at 17:36, 19 Jun 2017.

Calculation is the same because damage alghorithm calculated:
off - def = n * 5% (or - 2.5% if off is lower)
Percent of something gives always the same result. Nevermind you use it first or last. I dont know how it works but I think they programmed it similiar.

30 to 25 reduction is to much because we have only about 20% shooters 1 to 3 for city.
castle 2, rampart 1, tower 2, stronghold 2, citadel 1, necro 1, dungeon 2, inferno 1 =12 (24), 3 neutral, ballist = 28 for 142 units. Plus towers. Its higher than 20% but in 7 lvl - 18 units ( upgrades plus 4 mega dragons) is only 1 shooter titan - 4.5% . 7 lvl is about 40 - 50% army power.
So reduction 30 to 25 % will be rather to big.


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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted June 19, 2017 05:35 PM

My mistake it is 23%.

Or alternatively see bloodsucker's post.

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted October 02, 2017 06:29 PM

alright,

I had an idea: it seems that offense is one of the very few methods to increase damage. The other 4 being bless, bloodlust, Dist.Ray and luck.

armorer on the other hand is not the only way to increase defense. There is shield, StoneSkin, curse, weakness, Unluck.

eitherway, you still get to see damage reduction much more than increase. thats what maks offense unique.

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted October 03, 2017 08:21 PM

If I can have only one then it would have to be something like 25% to even consider picking it over offence in a serious game. Vs map dealing more damage already means losing less units so the effect of reducing losses can be greater in practice than that of armorer.

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