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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Special Terrains
Thread: Special Terrains This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 26, 2017 07:54 AM

Thank you very much for the info NimoStar.
I'll extract your modded terrains and do a compare. Perhaps I can enable the remaining ones, following your example.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 26, 2017 08:57 AM

Sokoro said:
In Heroes 4 there is several special terrain types.
Magic Plains, Field of Life, Enchanted Stone, Cursed Ground, Scorched Earth, Magic Garden, Field of Glory.
What is purpose of these? Anything else than just asthetic on adventure map? Too sad they do not change asthetic in combat screen. Do they affect gameplay in any way?


A kind soul just send me this in a message:
@Sokoro, the answer to your question, posted by Jennifer Bullard from NWC.

Description of the new terrain types

Quote from the site:
Quote:
Mithrandir: About the size of the map, Some player consider that XL size is still too small. What are the maps sizes ? Are there any new kinds of maps ? And are there any new terrain types ?

Maranthea: The map sizes will still be called Small, Medium, Large and Extra-Large, but their actual dimensions have grown from Heroes III to Heroes IV. This was to accommodate the larger look to structures and to give us more room in general on the maps. There are six new terrain types, five correspond with the new types of magic, and one enhances the Combat and Tactics skills in the game.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted August 26, 2017 10:04 AM

So as you see they planned terrain for each magic and for tactics but HIV is unfinished like many NWC games.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 26, 2017 10:30 AM

Well as for the terrains there could be more to it. Sure we know for a fact that many featured were planned, but we don't know for sure which were unfinished and which might have been post production ideas that got discarded along the way. From the interview I get the impression it was still post/early production ideas. While it might have made sense to enhance the magic terrains, I'm not sure it would've made sense to have terrain types boost your Tactics and Combat skills beyond your skill level. Could be they found the skills themself sufficient and boosting them with terrains might have made them overpowered. We can only guess.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted August 26, 2017 12:58 PM

For sure eg. they planned conlux (we have all or 7 units without magic elemental). Inferno and necro was planned as 2 cities we have heroes to inferno (black dressed in Asylium). And many, many others.
I checked terrain. Its raw but very weird. Terain in brush as you see is randomly generated and in def you have many scraps to generate ground.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 30, 2017 11:53 PM

Has anyone tried my method of "half archive duplication"?

It would be best to take a "full" terrain file, ranem it to for example "enchanted stone" file name, and pass the "enchanted stone" image to both what is (I think) the "map" (first) and "combat" (second) image.

I will try to make a "true" enchanted stone battlefield with it, but it might take more than a few tries until I get it right... I am also rusty, you see.


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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2017 12:27 AM

Not yet. I only had a quick glimpse but need more deep comparison. I had hoped to extract your modded terrains, but I can't extract those from your mod file, it just reads the files as 0 byte size, so nothing to extract. If I have time, I might give it a try in the qeekend.

Hmm. I got the impression there are adventure terrains and combat terrains (separate), but I'm not sure atm. Using Namerutan's tool you could get a quick overview of wheter there are terrain files in 1 or 2 places in the h4r file.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 02, 2017 05:17 AM

As I see, the same looks of the terrain on map file is how it looks in battle... so for all we know, it could be the same file. It certainly is the same image.

But I believe battlefield, unlike mal, is randomly generated.

Which begs the question, why did they not make a randomized map generator if they could make a randomized battlefield generator -_-
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2017 07:34 PM

Well I guess time could've been an issue. I sense parts in some of the table files that indicate they could've planned such a feature. I recall there are parts that suggest you could determine amount of water and other settings suggesting it might have been foe random generated maps. There's also clear indications an artifact modding/creation tool was planned.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 03, 2017 09:35 PM

So... I have found another component to the puzzle.

My method, even if it didn't break the game, didn't work either.

Why?

I suggest it has to do with this...



As you see, there are many less "terrain" types in the obstacle table than actual terrain types. All of the others default to one of these.

Maybe if we can create more layers
(Example terrain.magic.all.1 and terrain.magic.all.2) and add it to this table, it has a chance of working.

But, although this is a fragment of the puzzle, it is far from being complete.

The way the table is laid out makes it seem as though there is those and only those fixed positions for the terrain, as below it shifts into other considerations such as obstacle adjacency and overlay.
This in turn seems to mean the number of "Positions" for terrain and other features are hardcoded to be read from the exe (for example, only positions 2 to 10 read as terrains, positions 11 to 40 read as adjacency of obstacles, etc.)

***

There is also an unused combat object, "sparkles, that, although included in the game files and table, is never told to appear.
This was probably intended for the more "magical" terrains.




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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2017 11:59 PM

Was it your suggested "half archive duplication" that failed?

I stumbled upon these in the exe file at 006733bc (personal combat terrains) and 00684ea4 (special combat terrains). It seems some terrain types might've been prepared but not finished as layer files.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 05, 2017 03:44 AM

That's the thing that bugs me to a degree... it seems they are much more "unimplemented" than "unfinished". Much like the sparkles, all the information is basically there.   It just lacks enabling properly, at the very least on the real images and graphics are concerned.

For example, Tactical and Personal Combat files are there. They are complete. Radmutant got the "tactical" (Field of Glory) terrain to display ingame. Meaning it just lacks some letters (and possibly the table entry) to reference it. It WOULD BE POSSIBLE technically to enable it. We just don't know exactly how... yet.

Maybe search the .exe is "volcanic" and such table entries are referenced somehow?
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 10, 2017 10:51 PM

So it appears most terrains are actually made of two very similar (but not always exactly) terrains, that overlap in a subtle fractal sort of way.

By replacing one of these we get "hybrid" terrains that appear in the random way Baronus (I think?) found in the code. I have been experimenting with this a bit.

Terrains are read from .h4d files without having to put them in .h4r files, unlike some other data.

This technique is nice to save work decorating maps. Also maps could come ith .h4d terrains to play with different graphics.

Look at this. It is done with just one terrain.

In battle, it also looks like this, giving more vibrance and variance.











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