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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: For the Glory of Anarchism!
Thread: For the Glory of Anarchism! This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2017 08:57 PM

Aha, your obsession with a bunch of immigrants is not the smoke and mirror, but global climate change and technological revolution reshaping the culture is. Why is it almost everytime that people constantly hinting about smoke and mirrors are buried under a pile of them...
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 09, 2017 09:16 PM

Anarchism is unnatural. People need authorities in their lives who knows some things better than themselves and can take the responsibility for them. If you abolish the state, different groups of people will just form their own pecking orders.

At the core, there isn't rally much difference between formal and informal social control, the former is just (mostly) dictated by written laws to ensure some kind of security for everyone. If the state would just suddenly colapse, we'll probably end up with communities organizing on tribal-like ethnic/religious lines, with some nasty people like criminal gangs wreaking havoc for a time here and there until the warriors among the tribes decide to make short work of them. Which would be a great thing if that's the kind of society you'd like, but that's probably not the case if you're striving for "equality", "civil liberties" etc.

People aren't innately good, and people aren't innately equal.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2017 09:35 PM

I wouldnt call it unnatural per se but once you reach a certain level of population, it is indeed almost inevitable that a governance structure that does not operate on a face to face, personal basis will develop. The qualifications and limitations and type of authority of that structure is another matter.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 09, 2017 09:36 PM
Edited by fred79 at 21:38, 09 Aug 2017.

AnkVaati said:
Stupid people need authorities in their lives


ftfy. dumbasses need authority in the same way children need grownups; so that they don't burn their hands on the stove, or eat paint chips. people who already understand what NOT to do, don't need them. imo, people who actually NEED authority should be removed from the gene pool entirely, because they snow things up for everyone else, and the world at large.

humanity does not need dumbasses, not even for dumbass jobs. people with intelligence and know-how can just design robots for any menial work contributions they currently provide society. and we have. so there's absolutely no excuse dumbasses should even be allowed to exist. not even for our own entertainment. they are a weight upon the whole goddamn world, and everything in it.

of course, they are far from the ONLY demographic that should face the rocket catapult. because of our current systems, the other human garbage are allowed to exist(and not just exist, but FLOURISH).

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2017 09:43 PM

From your own neighbors, how many of them would you "remove from the gene pool" fred?
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 09, 2017 09:45 PM

i wouldn't bother trying to count that high. you might as well count the drops of water in an ocean.

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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Thunderlord of Nighon
posted August 09, 2017 10:09 PM

The funny thing to note though, depending on just how flexible you can be, technically an anarchist should have no scruples about dominating/exerting his own authority over others, albeit such a leader is going to be no different than current authority (in principle ofc, in practice it might actually prove better or worse, that's beside the point). Anarchist society can only be brought about by anarchists once the need/desire for authority is rendered obsolete.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 09, 2017 10:33 PM

Well, anarchism, significantly individualist sub-schools of anarchism all rely on the concept of the individual, which is the basis of any liberal philosophy anyway. But the more I read contemporary thinkers/scientists like Daniel Kahneman, Yuval Harari or Sam Harris, the more I realize that the existence of individuality itself is very much questioned these days. This is happening yet on academic, intellectual platforms, not on a political/legal level but as neurology and other life sciences observe our brain and behavior more and more, the rational, deliberately self-aware, unique individual is starting to be seen as an illusion more and more and there may come a time when people willingly let data observing artificial algorithyms handle major decisions for them. I strongly suggest you read Homo Deus, I just finished a week ago or so, started on the bus and the questions it brings to the table (that's mostly what the book does, ask speculative questions rather than giving straight answers) are very very relevant regarding the foundations of anarchism. Just like theocracies ended when "God died," liberal democracies may come to an end if the belief we have in the individual turns out to be another story we tell ourselves to feel better.

(In such a case, you'll cope, mvass will certainly turn into a suicide bomber though. )
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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Thunderlord of Nighon
posted August 09, 2017 11:07 PM
Edited by tSar-Ivor at 23:31, 09 Aug 2017.

Oooh, defo take you up on that only 5 quid for a kindle version. A small error with major implications I noticed on the very first page though, it is not our nature that is imperfect, but our environment/thus god's nature which is not conducive to our own. Why? Because god is one and we are many, just as there can only be one god we cannot attain our natural goal. This contradiction is the base of everything, the realisation that god is neither perfect nor omnipotent, it is a single cohesive whole, we are perfect components to a fault. There is no external remedy to this, God has no answer to this perplexing question because it is an enigma, what he does have answer for is how to proceed, how to evolve into something other than our nature and in harmony with each other and our environment. So I believe anyhow (don't quote me on this spent the entire day writing my essay, and another two to three more days of barely any sleep to come RIP me.)

And the 'more people die by suicide than killed by soldiers' had me chuckling a litte . Not that I aim to invalidate it, but deaths by suicides being at a high rate is hardly leaning towards the idea that we are in a period of any sort of bliss, despite the advances, something is inherently wrong (Will have to read more once I have the time).
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 09, 2017 11:14 PM

As well as "more people die from eating than from lacking food". Which is at best a slogan, totally inaccurate.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 10, 2017 12:20 AM

@tsar

This is 2017. You simply cant expect any historian's work or any other serious academic study to even take into consideration unfounded theological mumbling such as "God is perfect because..." etc. Perfection is an abstract concept with no solid criteria. There is no reasonable reply in this world that one can come up with if someone claims we or god or the universe is perfect, because they dont suggest something such as "it would have been surely imperfect, had it been like X." Basically, you call what exists perfect and there is no imperfect alternative by definition. It's tautological non-sense. God is an unfalsifiable, obsolete concept in any modern analysis, get over it.

@Sal

That part in the video is also in the book with an explanation of how ridiculous it may sound to many people at first hearing with detailed elaboration and it's convincing. Keep in mind that Harari's paradigm of human socities relying on intersubjective fiction to organize is neither judgemental about conservatives or liberals, it's simply a perspective evaluating both as historical detail. The last thing the book is neo-liberal propaganda, actually it is quite sensitive on the issues about developing countries in a very critical way. So his statistics doesnt exclude poor countries BUT it is also comparative when it comes to their own pasts. Keep in mind that, only back in 19th Century, millions were literally starving even in Ireland, China and so on.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted August 10, 2017 06:17 AM
Edited by Ebonheart at 06:25, 10 Aug 2017.

/Deep sigh Artu. Deep sigh.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 10, 2017 08:30 AM

Is that the name of your grunge band?
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted August 10, 2017 08:57 AM

artu said:
Is that the name of your grunge band?

In a land of Anarchy, I reckon it would be a good fit!

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted August 10, 2017 10:00 AM
Edited by Baronus at 10:01, 10 Aug 2017.

Baronus

You cant read Bible in primitive way. Ale rule is from God. NOT ALL RULER! Rulers are from satan very often. But idea of rule is fron God and is GOOD! GOD IS A RULER! In first.
Anarcho idea is from satan only. There is no good. First world anarchists Russians (this is country of anarchy) made hell in Russia named bolshevism, communism, sovietism. It was great anarchy in fact.

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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Thunderlord of Nighon
posted August 10, 2017 01:01 PM

@Baronus Of couse you can read the bible in a 'primitive way' everything we see is always tainted through the lens of our individual conceptions whether we are consciously aware or not. You never see the world or eg the words in the bible from an objective wholesome view but always from a subjective one since we are within it. This a key theme in Bhagavad gita when Krishna speaks from a complete view of reality it simply makes no senae to the prince, our perception of reality is always relative to where we stand.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 10, 2017 01:15 PM

The primitive way to read any book is to read it with the belief that it's infallible, not the other way around. That is literally leaving any notion of critical thinking behind, to the point that you take a collection of texts from various periods, authors and geography, label them as universal and eternal truth only because you are indoctrinated  into doing so.
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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Thunderlord of Nighon
posted August 10, 2017 01:26 PM
Edited by tSar-Ivor at 13:27, 10 Aug 2017.

My point was that a book can't indoctrinate you unless you're literally an empty cup, you will still see it from your own perspective and turn what you find into your own (disciplining what you let in is critical thought but that's not quite the point). Hence i assume the need for priests to dictate and to 'correct' what they would see as a 'misinterpretation' in order to get some uniformed result through force.
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 10, 2017 04:42 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 16:46, 10 Aug 2017.

I love the Bhagavad Gita. It's probably the best religious book I've read so far.

In one way one might even accuse Abrahamism of being a predecessor of rationalism and liberalism and then Marxism and egalitarianism because of its anthropocentric and puritan tendencies. I'm very reluctant to attack Christianity since it's the tradition most westerners turn to for spiritual answers and all the bad guys hate it because it's an important part of western identity... personally though, I can't get the thought that the spirit that Abraham, Paul and then possibly Mohammed encountered in the desert wasn't a benevolent one. Just think of how many great civilizations that were permanently wiped out by Islam for example, the fact that India survived (mostly) intact after about 1000 years of vile oppression and murder is a fantastic testament to the strength of the Dharmic and Vedic tradition and its followers!

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, look up Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya and the Dharma Manifesto.
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 10, 2017 04:57 PM

As for "dumbasses", a society cannot exist with just intellectual people. One might even argue that what we need more of in the west today are more peasants and people who aren't rootless and self-absorbed in the cities. People have different traits and capacities. In areas of life where we can't take responsibility (and ideally thus shouldn't have power), we need authorities to do that for us.


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