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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: Pay to Win games: a model that thrives off of low impulse control
Thread: Pay to Win games: a model that thrives off of low impulse control This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted September 12, 2017 07:21 AM

You had it rough. A long long time ago I used to play some silly vampires vs werewolves game and when I levelled up some, I had to wake up earlier to spend my gold before I got attacked. It got so bad that I eventually had to buy less expensive items over time so that I could then sell them all at once to meet the cost and buy the item I really wanted. I'd lose more gold that way but if I waited to collect the gold I'd lose a lot in the process to enemy attackers. People wouldn't just randomly attack you, they could search for you if they knew your username and some would attack you 4 times a day.

So yeah, never again. I seem to recall that this game also had unique defenses/bonuses to those you spent money. Great advantage over free players.
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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted September 12, 2017 09:40 AM

Blizzardboy said:
Galaad said:
verriker said:
they will devour my life lol


Tbh, back in the days h3 has devoured my life just as much.


I dunno. I've had days in the past where I woke up, played HoMM, played more HoMM, and at night eventually went to bed, with BLTs/Dr Pepper/expelling waste in between, but I always slept at night. I never set my alarm 2-4 hours before I would normally wake up so I could participate in all three boss/battle events and maximize my rewards, and then nap at awkward hours sporadically before doing it all over again.

It's that competitive part of me that couldn't stand letting those rewards slip by me. It is psychological warfare on the client. You can't work your way through the game at your own leisure because everything operates on a timer. I mean you can if you never really get immersed in it, but a lot of people do get immersed in games and so they see letting events pass them by as though they were making a strategic mistake.

But if you pick up a good quality RPG or campaign game, you work your way through it like a book, slip into the universe, and you get done when you get done. Yeah, it is possible to have days where you go off the grid as though you were living in a nuclear fallout shelter / vampire cave, and play the game all day, but the game isnt purposely engineered for that in the way cigarettes are laced with nicotine to purposely make people want/need them all the time.


That's the thing I hate about these mobile games, I only play CQ and Clash Royale, I play the latter to help a friend, but boy, the guild there is so demanding it becomes annoying, every weekend I have to play for an hour because otherwise I won't make the necessary crowns for the clan chest...

At least in CQ Galaad is much more respectful of my rythms (Don't worry Gala, I'm definetly back, I did everything else that would hold me back for the time being), but yeah, I play it much more casually and yet, I feel as if I dedicate more time to it than the other, which I don't mind, seeing as it's a game that allows you to play more relaxed.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted September 12, 2017 09:49 AM

He is only pushy to get joiners huh
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 12, 2017 10:17 AM

Oh, yes. Besides the timer, you also have guilds/clans/teams and they usually come with rewards that can not be ignored. That is, if you dont become a member, you miss out on a lot but once you do become a member, the game kind of turns into a job. You must do your daily tasks, fight the collective battles, donate etc... If you dont, they simply kick you out. There are guilds that take things lightly but their income is much less because of that.
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 12, 2017 10:42 AM

Artu, CQ is not like that. Rewards are good for lower guilds too and you can only fight last day of the whole week in PvP and still succeed your goal. Yes, the LAST day of a challenge week is a constraint if you care for PvP rewards (which aren't mandatory either, only very appealing) but that's only one day/few hours a week. It sometimes happen to me to miss on PvP challenges, it's fine.

People are way too hasty to jump to conclusions, but that's normal, since 99% of the mobile industry is scam. There is a few people who try to make things right though in there, and JVC along key NWC members are part of these people. I understand the topic is not about CQ in general but I find it wrong when people put it in the scam box.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 12, 2017 12:10 PM
Edited by Stevie at 12:13, 12 Sep 2017.

artu said:
Oh, yes. Besides the timer, you also have guilds/clans/teams and they usually come with rewards that can not be ignored. That is, if you dont become a member, you miss out on a lot but once you do become a member, the game kind of turns into a job. You must do your daily tasks, fight the collective battles, donate etc... If you dont, they simply kick you out. There are guilds that take things lightly but their income is much less because of that.


HC Kreegans, the guild Galaad is running, was exactly this. It's only natural. Any guild has a set level of competition, be it top 3 or 10, 5000 prestige per player and so on. Some guilds even take foreign people to rank high and kick them out whenever they please after they've used their points. In Creature Quest, if you kicked people after the rankings were set but before the rewards were distributed, the guild would still retain its points and ranking, but those people would not receive the guild rewards. This was done commonly so that people would "steal" prestige, by Galaad included.

And this is just one of the many loopholes that the game had which encouraged underhanded play. The PVP system where the big winnings were was so intrinsically broken that it was very easy to abuse for a good rank. For example, there was a method to superficially inflate a group's prestige quantum, so that when the total was calculated towards the guild rank, you could contribute twice or even trice the amount of prestige you'd ordinarily get. I've been a small fish compared to some people, getting as much as near 15k prestige while they were up to 40k.

Again, one of the many. As for JVC and his team, the only difference between them and the entirety of the mobile market is advertising. The rest is pretty much all the same. Though all due respect for the game and effort they've made, I personally had great interaction with the staff.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 12, 2017 02:35 PM

You make it sound like it was horrible when I recall we had tons of fun grinding the dungeons. The 5k prestige was nothing unreachable and it is natural the people playing PvP are more or less competitive. You were heavily into the PvP part of game and you gave it your all everytime, but the average player will settle for a lower ranking, which still is a 3dots Legendary and good amount of diamonds, idols etc. I absolutely deny stealing prestige, I never kicked someone out after the rankings were set.
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted September 12, 2017 02:45 PM

Any guild that includes me is by default not a competitively-inclined guild. That said, CQ with its n+1 currencies is heavily geared towards monetization.
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Now I only want you gone...
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 12, 2017 02:48 PM
Edited by Galaad at 14:50, 12 Sep 2017.

The_Polyglot said:
That said, CQ with its n+1 currencies is heavily geared towards monetization.


Of course you are tempted to buy the real cash bundles, the whole point is you can avoid it and still perform good. Yes there is a high tier of whales, but insofar they are the ones suffering the system the most. The monetization is designed in a way that a low VIP will have the better game experience, which is more or less the same as buying a PC game on steam.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 12, 2017 02:56 PM

Lol, Galaad is like a heartbroken lover:
- But... but.... how can you say those terrible things! Wasn't any of what we had real for you!


Look, I get what you're saying, if you dont become obsessed with ranking top 20, set your priorities straight and just try to enjoy the game instead of rushing things, you can of course enjoy it. That's the way I roll, too, it's not unique to CQ, they watch for that balance in most games. Even though, guilds and refills STILL affect your daily schedule and just because you're no junkie doesnt mean heroin is healthy.
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you guys are after some sort of systemized system - tsar

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted September 12, 2017 03:00 PM

Lol no. F2P lags eons behind paying players, ESPECIALLY SO since Kingdoms was launched, and already at level 50-something the grind, DAILY grind, is negatively impacting my playing experience.
You CAN play for free, but the game is showcasing in its every aspect how the REAL game is behind a paywall.
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You're someone else's problem
Now I only want you gone...
-Glados

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 12, 2017 03:01 PM

It was a lot of fun, that's true, but it could've been better. For me it just got worse, up to the point that I couldn't play the game anymore.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
"Stevie's spamfest gave Corribus PTSD." - Kipshasz

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted September 12, 2017 03:05 PM

I'm just waiting for Beelzaboot to show up, and Galaad to go completely nerdrage and flame you all, then lose his modship in the process.

do it.
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Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
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"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 12, 2017 03:36 PM
Edited by Galaad at 14:28, 13 Sep 2017.

The_Polyglot said:
Lol no. F2P lags eons behind paying players, ESPECIALLY SO since Kingdoms was launched, and already at level 50-something the grind, DAILY grind, is negatively impacting my playing experience.
You CAN play for free, but the game is showcasing in its every aspect how the REAL game is behind a paywall.


That is not a fair assessment, imo. True, with the addition of Kingdom, we will get a temporary more significant gap with p2w players but we will all reach to the bonuses at some point. Everything is farmable to an extent and as such game isn't p2w. All you can do is pay to progress faster.

Stevie said:
it could've been better.


True, while still not perfect the game is improving with every new update.

artu said:
just because you're no junkie doesnt mean heroin is healthy.


Roh.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted September 13, 2017 12:51 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 01:16, 13 Sep 2017.

Rant continued:

Something else I don't like in some of these mobile games is the effect they (might) be having on people's learning behavior. With a traditional hobby, you typically do something for awhile and then stop, before doing it again. Not so with the Machevellian schemes of p2w. The game goads you into "checking in" multiple times per day. So instead of going from one activity in your day to the next, you are frequently and compulsively going to your game throughout the day, but often for relatively brief periods.

[note: all of this is of course engineered to maximize the probability of the person using real life currency; gameplay has nothing to do with it. Seriously: somebody give an argument for how sticking real life cooldown timers on everything enhances the gameplay for the customer. I am open to hearing it.]

As a result, the person's attention span decreases and impulsivity increases, maybe especially among youth. Moreover, all of this is on a device that follows you everywhere you go, whether youre at school, at work, at the grocery store, or getting ready to go to sleep. It easily goes from a hobby to a dependency.

The industry is scam-esque, through and through.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted September 13, 2017 01:26 AM

South Park had a great episode on the matter, as always ^^

Freemium isn't free!

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted September 13, 2017 07:53 AM

Minion said:
South Park had a great episode on the matter, as always ^^

Freemium isn't free!

and the best part is, Galaad is acting pretty much like Jimmy in that episode
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 13, 2017 10:50 AM
Edited by Stevie at 10:51, 13 Sep 2017.

There's a lot of videos on youtube explaining the very damaging psychological impact of freemiums. And when you think JVC takes part in such shady business.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
"Stevie's spamfest gave Corribus PTSD." - Kipshasz

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted September 17, 2017 06:22 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 07:38, 17 Sep 2017.

In classic retard fashion I quit that last game and ended up getting hooked on another one. "Star Trek: Timelines". I was just curious at first and next thing you know I have a sore left shouldar and neck from being on my phone all day. Really sore.

Tonight on universal chat, from some guy: "I ended up getting caught by the police stealing so I could buy more dilithium to roll the dabo wheel"

Gotta admit: that's the first time I read that line anywhere in my life.
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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted September 17, 2017 10:09 AM

Stevie said:
There's a lot of videos on youtube explaining the very damaging psychological impact of freemiums. And when you think JVC takes part in such shady business.


Development of freemium garbage is basically rock bottom for any game dev.

They're like the crystal meth of video games.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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