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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: The Catalan independence
Thread: The Catalan independence This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 01, 2017 04:05 AM

The Catalan independence

and Spain is a thief of state.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 01, 2017 11:50 AM

Lol, it is nice to know we have an international brand now:

#catalanreferendum#erdoganisation of spain
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted October 01, 2017 12:54 PM

Did someone say independence?
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A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 01, 2017 01:07 PM


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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Live today for we die tomorrow
posted October 01, 2017 01:18 PM

Urgh when will governments learn, unrest is like a disease applying half-hearted 'moderate' force is like taking an unsufficient amount of antibiotics, what happens? The disease grows accustomed and immune to it, so you up the dosage - again to an insufficent amount (but would've been fine if taken at the beginning).

A solid quick decisive use of overwhelming force is the only rational solution, not this lackluster authoritarian hogwash.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 01, 2017 01:28 PM

They should give them independence but stop providing first hand products, as oil, electricity and water. 2 months later they will be back.

You don't leave parents basement before you can subsist by yourself.
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Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted October 01, 2017 01:58 PM

Restore the throne of Aragon
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 01, 2017 02:01 PM

Actually, this situation is the opposite. The Catalans are the rich ones and the reason they want independence is because they dont want higher taxes that goes into welfare for poorer regions of Spain.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted October 01, 2017 02:08 PM

Ahahahahahaaaa Spain will fall!

#freegranada #freealandalus
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Jonny Come Sometime
posted October 01, 2017 02:26 PM

like my granddad William Wallace I will go along with this opportunistically to get a bit of Scottish independence down the tunnel but I certainly think it is a bit dodgy, good luck with that if you are doing if for fairly naive reasons and with Spain breathing smoke down the ass cheers lol
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 01, 2017 03:38 PM

One good!

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tito_reni
tito_reni


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2017 04:26 PM

artu said:
Actually, this situation is the opposite. The Catalans are the rich ones and the reason they want independence is because they dont want higher taxes that goes into welfare for poorer regions of Spain.


Lies!! They are the rich ones because they have been blackmailing us with their damn independence threats for almost two centuries.

Back in the XIX Century the richest region of Spain was Galicia (mostly because of their agriculture), but because of catalonian monopoly on textiles, Galcia became a third-worl snowhole while Catalonia was going outrageously rich [in most of Lationoamerica, people still refer to spaniards as "galicians"]. Catalonia was selling their textiles with a price 4 times higher than the british ones, but people in Spain were forced to buy the catalonian snow. Even today we have these problems, with catalonian politicians forcing the central government to not build High Speed Trains to regions like Galicia or Andalucia.

While the separatists traitors blackmail the government to give them all the privileges and all the money, regions like Castilla-La Mancha or Extremadura are completely abandoned, with the people of those regions being forced to emigrate to were the money is being sent.

The funniest thing here is that these separatist feeling was born during the Carlist Wars (a series of civil wars in Spain during the XIX century in which they supported an absolutist and fundamentalist christian candidate for the throne of Spain), but today their biggest support comes from the left (communist, feminist, LGTB, and all of that).

Even more ludicrous: while Spain has been avoiding all the muslim terror thanks to taking latinoamerican immigrants instead of muslim ones, Catalonia has been doing the opposite thing in order to fight the use of the castillan language. This is why the first spanish "truck of peace" has showed up in Barcelona.

Deep down, this is a consecuence of the Economical Crisis. When short of money, spanish people have started to realize how far political corruption had been going, with it being the main cause of our recent poverty. Catalonia is probably the most corrup region, and if they are doing all of this is to escape the political consecuences of their doing. They want to either get their independence to escape justice, or to become martyrs in order to save their political parties.

At least they are not the worse ones. I live in the Basque Country (another carlist region), and here there has been a terrorist group (created by the old carlist priest and with a communist ideology) killing people since 1958, and most of the leftist defend these [auto-censored rambling] because they are separatist and, apparently, you are not a good goy, I mean, a good leftist if you don't support those who want to cause political destabilization in your homeland.

I remember Juan Negrin, Presitent of the Goverment of the Second Republic during the Great Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) who said that he prefered a fascist victory if that meant the extermination of the separatist traitors. Ironically, the Basque Nationalist Party (who has been ruling since the return of democracy in the Transition (1975-1982)) betrayed the Repulic and give all the northern coast to the fascist. And then, Franco (our dictator) couldn't touch them because the (((Catholic Church))) was protecting them. I wonder where are now the leftist like Juan Negrin, if they even exist. By the way, some fascist politicians also said that they prefered a "red Spain" than a "broken Spain". Maybe we should all team up to fight these traitors, but the left seems to have gone full g*y.

Serioulsy, people, if you have literally no idea of what you are talking about, at least try to do some research and look up for both sides os the story. Sigh.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 01, 2017 04:41 PM
Edited by artu at 16:42, 01 Oct 2017.

I'm sure both sides have their "justified" version of history, their political spectrum of radicals and compromisers. Catalans can also dig a lot of dirt from the Franco period when it comes to matters of oppression. And I didnt make any comments about why they are the rich ones. Doesn't change the fact that their recent motive is economical and they bring this up now especially since the crisis in 2008 made them question where their tax money goes.
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tito_reni
tito_reni


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2017 05:00 PM

artu said:
I'm sure both sides have their "justified" version of history, their political spectrum of radicals and compromisers. Catalans can also dig a lot of dirt from the Franco period when it comes to matters of oppression. And I didnt make any comments about why they are the rich ones. Doesn't change the fact that their recent motive is economical and they bring this up now especially since the crisis in 2008 made them question where their tax money goes.


You did a very clear comment when you suggested that catalonian money goes to the poorer regions of Spain (and you are making it again), when it's actually the other way around. Catalonia and the Basque Country are stealing so much from the rest of Spain that they are the main (or only) cause of the poverty of other regions.

And, one VERY IMPORTANT thing, I don't know where you live, I don't know if you have ever been in Spain or for how long, but let me make this clear: everything about those 40 years of "national-catholicism" is an extremely sensitive issue. Everyone suffered under the rule of fascism. Using the oppression of fascism as a separatist cause, like if political repression only happened in one specific region of Spain, is one of the more wretched, dishonest and hateful thing that has ever been said by those separatist. The fact that people outside Spain fall into that ludicrous accusation is something that worries me a lot.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 01, 2017 05:32 PM
Edited by artu at 17:34, 01 Oct 2017.

Yes, I made a clear comment about them being the wealthier region and this being their motive to seperate, replying to someone who made a comment, seemingly assuming they are the poor region. All of the articles I read about the subject infomed me so and this is debated here a lot, because there has also been a Kurdish referandum of independence in Iraq recently and the media here (I live in Turkey) compares the two a lot. Now, since your first reply goes "They are the rich ones only because..." you also acknowledge that they are indeed the richer region, not the poor. I dont know if your accusations about them being richer because they steal is true or not but remembering your prior posts in this place and looking at your rhetoric of "those evil corrupt traitors," I can hardly imagine you are objective or impartial about the topic or that healthy political analysis is your cup of tea.

Why now?

The push for full autonomy appears to have gathered pace in recent years, most notably since Spain's 2008 debt crisis.

"In that moment, people in Catalonia demanded more self-government and control over what is done with their money," said Orriols.

Pro-independence supporters claim Catalonia, which is one of Spain's wealthiest regions, offers more financial support to Spain than it receives from the central government in Madrid.

Many view the region's strong economy as an indicator that it would be viable as a sovereign state.

Source
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tito_reni
tito_reni


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2017 07:00 PM

I do not intend to be neutral, I have my position very clear. Separatist politicians have been telling lies for decades (in and out of Spain), their motto "Spain is stealing from us" is a very ironical one considering how corrupt are these politicians (Jordi Puyol, who has been the face of Catalonian separatism for many years, is now under many investigations and judgments because of how much money he has steel).

You don't need to be very clever to understand that they want more economical autonomy so they would be able to steel even more (I'm not saying that federalism is bad, but in the hands of these people it will definitly be a disaster).

Because how the electoral system works in Spain, sometimes the ruling party needs to gather the support of smaller parties in order to form a government, and guess what: separatist parties are the most common type of small party. In order to keep power, the big parties (who in no way are innocent from corruption) have to obey to every whim of these separatist, which means that the money gathered in all Spain and which should be distributed equally, ends up going to the separatist regions. After 40 years of so called "democracy", here you have the result: an extremely rich region claiming for independence while the rest of the country lies in misery.

Spanish democracy has been a total failure. The Constitution of 1978 was created behind closed doors, in order to preserve the same oligarchy that ruled us during fascism, and then they balckmailed us making us choose between fascism or corrupt democracy. This is not a system to protect the spanish people, it's a system to protect politicians from us. It's not a system based on freedom, it's a system based on corruption.

The catalonian separatism is just the best example of this corruption-based system.

In Spain there is no Left nor Right, there is only corruption with a different colour.

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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Live today for we die tomorrow
posted October 01, 2017 07:10 PM
Edited by tSar-Ivor at 19:10, 01 Oct 2017.

Time to build a bridge across the straits of Gibraltar and let the Moors take over, hash brownies for everyone!
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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 01, 2017 07:16 PM

AlHazin said:
Ahahahahahaaaa Spain will fall!

#freegranada #freealandalus


AlHazin for Caliph of Spain.

Make Espana Kebab Again!
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 01, 2017 07:21 PM

tito_reni said:
artu said:
Actually, this situation is the opposite. The Catalans are the rich ones and the reason they want independence is because they dont want higher taxes that goes into welfare for poorer regions of Spain.


Lies!! They are the rich ones because they have been blackmailing us with their damn independence threats for almost two centuries.

Back in the XIX Century the richest region of Spain was Galicia (mostly because of their agriculture), but because of catalonian monopoly on textiles, Galcia became a third-worl snowhole while Catalonia was going outrageously rich [in most of Lationoamerica, people still refer to spaniards as "galicians"]. Catalonia was selling their textiles with a price 4 times higher than the british ones, but people in Spain were forced to buy the catalonian snow. Even today we have these problems, with catalonian politicians forcing the central government to not build High Speed Trains to regions like Galicia or Andalucia.

While the separatists traitors blackmail the government to give them all the privileges and all the money, regions like Castilla-La Mancha or Extremadura are completely abandoned, with the people of those regions being forced to emigrate to were the money is being sent.

The funniest thing here is that these separatist feeling was born during the Carlist Wars (a series of civil wars in Spain during the XIX century in which they supported an absolutist and fundamentalist christian candidate for the throne of Spain), but today their biggest support comes from the left (communist, feminist, LGTB, and all of that).

Even more ludicrous: while Spain has been avoiding all the muslim terror thanks to taking latinoamerican immigrants instead of muslim ones, Catalonia has been doing the opposite thing in order to fight the use of the castillan language. This is why the first spanish "truck of peace" has showed up in Barcelona.

Deep down, this is a consecuence of the Economical Crisis. When short of money, spanish people have started to realize how far political corruption had been going, with it being the main cause of our recent poverty. Catalonia is probably the most corrup region, and if they are doing all of this is to escape the political consecuences of their doing. They want to either get their independence to escape justice, or to become martyrs in order to save their political parties.

At least they are not the worse ones. I live in the Basque Country (another carlist region), and here there has been a terrorist group (created by the old carlist priest and with a communist ideology) killing people since 1958, and most of the leftist defend these [auto-censored rambling] because they are separatist and, apparently, you are not a good goy, I mean, a good leftist if you don't support those who want to cause political destabilization in your homeland.

I remember Juan Negrin, Presitent of the Goverment of the Second Republic during the Great Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) who said that he prefered a fascist victory if that meant the extermination of the separatist traitors. Ironically, the Basque Nationalist Party (who has been ruling since the return of democracy in the Transition (1975-1982)) betrayed the Repulic and give all the northern coast to the fascist. And then, Franco (our dictator) couldn't touch them because the (((Catholic Church))) was protecting them. I wonder where are now the leftist like Juan Negrin, if they even exist. By the way, some fascist politicians also said that they prefered a "red Spain" than a "broken Spain". Maybe we should all team up to fight these traitors, but the left seems to have gone full g*y.

Serioulsy, people, if you have literally no idea of what you are talking about, at least try to do some research and look up for both sides os the story. Sigh.


Look on the bright ide pal, if a civil war in Moorland erupts, all the paella munchers in Donbass may rush over to fight "fascism" in their own run down homes, and it'll give east ukrainian "girls" some rest from being gang raped by them 24/7, and resume their normal job as mail order brides.

#EpicCynicism #PlsNoPenalty
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 01, 2017 07:37 PM

If Spaniards complain so much about catalunya making them poor and RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVER, why won't they let it go?

It doesn't fit to complain about a land being a part of your realm and then keep wanting it conquered.

If you don't like it, leave it.
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