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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: The Catalan independence
Thread: The Catalan independence This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 02, 2017 06:58 PM

tSar-Ivor said:
You need some well bred Normans for that, and to breed those you will first need to get your hands on some fine naturalized Vikings (though savage/wild ones will do too, just extra work).


Won't work, all the viking DNA is tainted beyond recovery, by the the Ultrawimp virus.
We've had a few examples here, most notably Xerox.

But there is one pure specimen, and you know him too. For this litte endeavour to succeed we need the seed of Arrrrrghdrius. Or a blood sample of him, then we could raid Corribus' genetics lab for gear and recipes while he's busy torturing some newbz.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted October 02, 2017 07:16 PM

Another political thread in the vw...

What's this forum coming to?????





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tSar-Ivor
tSar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Live today for we die tomorrow
posted October 02, 2017 07:58 PM

Just sayin:

____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness" Jenny.

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted October 02, 2017 08:27 PM

tito_reni said:
And why not Federal Republics??? Why think small and not big? Can't there be a brotherhood of cultures within a nation?

I'd like to take Italy as an example, we don't see eye to eye between regions, we Sicilians hate the northeners and they hate us, Venetians hate the central government and the south because they think they're stealing money, Trentine people (idk how to properly spell that in english) hate Italy for being so damn chaotic and would rather be Austrian, the Lombards think they are the ones pushing Italy forward and hate the others for being a burden, etc. etc.
Aren't we all Italians? I beg to differ, we are nations in a state, we Sicilians have our own culture, language and heritage, different from that of a Lombard or a Roman.
We coexist due to that glue called the constitution mixed with the Italian language and a vague sense of national culture (which let's be honest it's Florentine and Roman), truly, if not for soccer and television we'd probably wouldn't even consider ourselves a people.

Also, republics are a mess, they are just a front for a nepotistic system that only allows those within its framework to fight for their interests. If this is the result I'd rather have a king than serve wealthy commoners.

My preferred scenario would be kingdoms for every nation-state, or at least republics with some ounce of national interest.
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 02, 2017 08:28 PM

You have seen that Catalans are better-looking than the Spanish. I support Catalans

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 02, 2017 08:54 PM
Edited by artu at 00:10, 03 Oct 2017.

@Neraus

Assuming you are talking about an actual monarchy, not a symbolic one (such as the UK etc.), you only prefer that cause you have never witnessed an actual monarchy. You glorify the legacy, but you are completely alien to the actual experience itself.
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 02, 2017 08:58 PM

I think Neraus wouldn't be a filthy peasant, I'm pretty sure he has his geneology lined up and ready, with a sigil and everything.

Being a Mafia Don is just plan B, and being a Neo-Mussolini is plan C (which is the best plan so far btw)
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted October 02, 2017 08:58 PM
Edited by Neraus at 21:01, 02 Oct 2017.

@artu
That may be, but restarting everything from a blank slate is not feasible, at least it's a tried and true system, it has its problems but I prefer it.

The system of the Republic of Rome would actually be nice, but it would really be naive to think it would work today with today's politicians.

@kip
As I understand I technically derive from French nobility, even though I don't really show it in appearance. (At least according to a great-uncle)

If that wasn't a case I would still be quite well off, as I still come from a family of landowners and another of politicians.
____________
Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 02, 2017 09:00 PM

Neraus said:
That may be, but restarting everything from a blank slate is not feasible, at least it's a tried and true system, it has its problems but I prefer it.

The system of the Republic of Rome would actually be nice, but it would really be naive to think it would work today with today's politicians.

buddy, even back then, corruption amongst the senate was rampant. Very few were like Cato(both senior and junior)
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted October 02, 2017 09:14 PM
Edited by Neraus at 21:15, 02 Oct 2017.

But the system at least had some guarantees built in that did help the people of Rome, I like a lot the institution of the tribunes for that reason, it was a way to curtail the senate when it clashed with the interests of the citizens at large (or at least that's how it should have worked).

If we applied this today, with the party mentality of our times however, you can see why I say the Roman Republican system wouldn't work with the politicians of today, having two consuls and two tribunes who all had vetoing power would effectively stagnate the political life of the state, if they were acting according to the tribal mentality that occurs in parliaments today.

(Or at least that's how it happens here, it was especially funny when the Democratic Party voted against cutting parliamentary wages because that was a 5 star movement proposal.)

At least that's what I'm referring to in the post.
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted October 02, 2017 09:17 PM

Morocco is a monarchy, mind you that even the land belongs to the king. All in all republics are way better than monarchies that's why monarchies switch to republic but rarely the reverse.

Catalans are republicans either, another divergence point with Madrid.
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 02, 2017 09:19 PM

you forget another thing.

Most of the hardest manual labor in Rome was performed by slaves. and as you know, slavery is ok only if you're an african or middle-easter n country, since international "institutions" don't give a bleep about that.
Only reparations for blacks living in the good 'ol US of A, because they were kangz and stuff.

I would like to know more about the intricacy of Roman politics, but doubtful that I would specialise in Classical history, since I've set my eyes on XVIth-XVIIth centuries. but that could change.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 02, 2017 10:36 PM
Edited by artu at 22:38, 02 Oct 2017.

Neraus said:
@artu
That may be, but restarting everything from a blank slate is not feasible, at least it's a tried and true system, it has its problems but I prefer it.

1- Yes, it has been tried and the results were not better. On average a regular person had less wealth, less rights, less education under monarchies. And they still exist, you know, the world is not just Europe. Compare existing monarchies, real monarchies to your country. Decentralization and separation of power results in more balance and accountability. It's never on an ideal level of course, but it's better.

2- It had been "tried" under totally different conditions. With industralization came basic education for all people and this transforms a society drastically. What a modern citizen will put up with compared to an illiterate peasant are completely different things. I think, I can not only know but sense this much further than you because, in my country, in rural areas, there are still people living so close to that mind set. They are rare now but let me give you an example from a book I read, interviewing them in the 1950's:
- What is an aeroplane, Ahmed?
- ..........?
- What is a bus?
- ..........?
- What is a hospital?
- I know this one. They take babies there when disease hits and some don't die this way.

Now, ruling such a population and ruling people who object to tax rates are, needless to say, extremely diffferent things.

3- In most places, the change happened gradually, not from scratch. Even in an extreme case like the French Revolution, there was continuity in a lot of institutions and the parliaments already existed alongside monarchs.  
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...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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tito_reni
tito_reni


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted October 02, 2017 11:34 PM

Ghost said:
You have seen that Catalans are better-looking than the Spanish. I support Catalans


From where the hell have you take that bullsnow???

If you want to play that game, fine: catalonians are all miserly and greedy. Everyone in Spain thinks that, I'm not lying.

You are just falling for the typical stupidity about southerners and villagers being ugly. And I could go with the typical snow about city people being homo. Also, the people of Barcelona are mostly hipsters; again, I'm not lying.

...

Anyway, probably the best thing is to go full Napoleon/Hitler and pray for it to work this time.

Or, we could go full ancap and create private megacorporations with private armies and McNukes. But these socialist would never let us do that.

I would like to say that I could move to Latinoamerica if snow hits the fam, but it seems like I would only delay my doom. Argentina is already full with toxic feminism and (((youknowwho))), and most of Latinoamerican countries are just the playground for populist commies (like Chavez) or drug mafias (sometimes both, you would be suprised to see how friendly are with each other). Also, the spanish political corruption is nothing compared to the mexican one.

So, that's everything, goys. Either we make a final stand while we still have some strenght, or we will be running away until there is nowhere to hide.

Pardon me if I go a bit conspiranoid, but everything that is happening to Europe seems to have the same goal: political destabilization.

1) Separatism (fake nationalism, these separatist are all globalist).
2) Massive Immigration (which brings not only crime but also radical islam).
3) Radical Left (Antifa, Feminism, LGTB,...).

The winners? USA, Russia and China. These three are playing a game for power and Europe has the potential to become a fourth player. They are not going to allow it unless they can count with our subordination to them.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted October 02, 2017 11:36 PM

OK and what did the Spanish think about Euskeda?
____________
"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 02, 2017 11:58 PM

@ tino_reni

An average ugly, when the Sun shines acne I visited the Canary Islands, where were an ugly snows. One didn't have teeth, and one lacked hand. Asked for 170 in the 1994. WTF Spanish cheated price, and said be special beauty like nigs sell fake rolex in very common, also all fake and cheap home products, real Chinese style. I visited also deaf school. All have an ugly as prison/crime. But deaf teacher was sexy, and beauty. She's from the C. Islands, not Spain.

I give to land Island comes independency, I haven't problem! Since I say Catalans are

Do you know that Finnish independency is a illegal, also Norway. What then?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 03, 2017 12:04 AM
Edited by artu at 00:09, 03 Oct 2017.

tito_reni said:
Anyway, probably the best thing is to go full Napoleon/Hitler and pray for it to work this time.

Why am I not surprised at all? Yeah, it's feminism that's toxic and it's the leftists who are the radicals.
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...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Neraus
Neraus


Supreme Hero
Emperor of the Bromans
posted October 03, 2017 12:14 AM
Edited by Neraus at 00:15, 03 Oct 2017.

@artu

But I am talking about Europe and the type of monarchy I prefer, I'm not taking into account monarchies from outside of it.

And boy, don't think you can school me on parliaments, we had the first parliament in Europe here in Sicily.

If we really want to nitpick, I could point to you that Germany, Austria, Hungary, Italy, the Baltic countries, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and the Balkan republics became republics due to a defeat in war or because they were created on a map to cut up previous super-states, in some cases due to an imposition of the victors, in others, like in Italy, due to strong ideological influences (like the commie partisans in the north...). But that's another point regarding how some republics came to be.

If we consider the Italian monarchy, it had more agency than modern monarchies, and yet it was still a quite developed nation (even though those pesky Piedmontese shot us in the leg, but I digress), the king had an hand in curtailing parliament once, and, decided who should be president (Poor King Victor Emmanuel III, he didn't know that would make him the most loathed king of Italy...).

Anyway, I know I'm a nostalgic, and my fondness for monarchy derives especially from the 19th century, back when Sicily was still part of the Two Sicilies, a period that has been so bad mouthed by Italian scholars but that actually would have been the foundation of a new great power if only the Bourbons were allowed to go through with their plans. (key word is allowed)

EDIT::
I suppose doing a Mussolini is out of the question, who will appoint you as president after all?
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Wait, where is my clever punchline?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 03, 2017 12:27 AM

Dont you think it's a little ironic to talk about becoming a great power if being allowed?
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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tito_reni
tito_reni


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted October 03, 2017 01:09 AM

@Ghost ---> I suppose you are joking. There are ugly and handsome people everywhere.

@artu ---> Do you have a pacifist solution that can get us out of the mess??? Because, if you have it, I want to hear it.

@AlHazin ---> *Euskera. Kind of a complicated thing considering that since 1958 there has been a communist-separatist group in the Basque Country killing mostly civilians. They are called ETA, by the way.

Last Saturday in the morning I went to a concentration in support of spanish unity, and guess who was there insulting us and calling us "fascists": ETA supporters. Yes, I live in the Basque Country, in Bilbao to be precise. Since I as a kid I have been suffering discrimination from these separatist scum from being a "son of a spaniard". It doesn't matter that we all suffered equally under fascism, they have take that as a separatist cause. Neverming that Franco was killing everyone who has not a christian zealot, the only thing that matters to them is that Franco didn't allow the use of the basque language.

This happened in 1997 (I was born in 1993, so I didn't live that directly). After the cops liberated a guy who had been kidnapped by ETA for around three years (he was that hole time living in a small hole), ETA retaliated by kidnapping a conservative-spanish politician (a nobody, just some guy who belonged to that party) and announced that they will kill him in three days. And they did it. That was the only time in which we really put together the balls to get out to the streets in rage. VIDEO

So you can see how we feel about all of that. Yes, Euskera is an ancient language that should be preserved, but the only thing I can think about when I hear someone speaking in that language, is in the over 800 people killed by ETA. They are the ones who are responsible of this. If ETA disolved after the fall of fascism, no one would be having problems with the basques.

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