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| Thread: Moving spells up or down levels | |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 31, 2017 02:21 PM |
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Moving spells up or down levels
I think about modding Heroes 3 a lot and sometimes I like to change things a lot and later change them back, because that's how I remember the game and I don't wan't to make things TOO different.
Lately I have been wondering about spell levels though and I have considered moving some spells around and alter their spell cost accordingly.
For example:
* Haste, Slow, Bless and Curse could easily all be moved to level 2 or 3.
* Why is Bless a cheap level 1 spell, when Precision is a worse and more expensive level 2 spell that affects fewer units?
* Why is Stone Skin level 1, when Weakness is a more expensive level 2 spell, when they basically are opposites? (In fact I would consider Stone Skin better than Weakness since Weakness can be resisted, but Stone Skin can't.)
* Why is Protection From Fire only level 1, when it protects against the most damaging spell?
* Why is Blind only level 2?
* Why does Fire Wall only feel useful when playing as Luna, with few units?
* Why is Quicksand level 2 and Land Mine level 3? Quicksand is at least useful sometimes, I can't say the same about Land Mine.
* Why is Animate Dead a level 3 and Resurrection a more expensive level 4 spell? Animate Dead does'nt even require Earth Magic to be permanent.
* Why is Slayer an expensive level 4 spell that only affects 1 stack? (I made it a mass spell at Expert Fire Magic, that makes it a bit better.)
* Why is Town Portal powerful enough to be a level 5 (or 6  ) spell?
* Is Magic Mirror level 5 only because of Gold Dragons?
* Some damage spells and Hypnotize are also questionable, but their damage is easy to modify, to make them fit their level.
Is all good in the "spell level department" or what do you think?
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted October 31, 2017 03:41 PM |
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Edited by phe at 15:55, 31 Oct 2017.
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First of all mass spells should be splitted for into single and mass versions...so current levels of spells are good for single version...Mass versions should be 2 levels up...exept Mass Prayer which would be 5th level...
Land Mine, Fire Wall, Inferno and other spells should be strenghtened until they become usefull...
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 31, 2017 04:04 PM |
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phe said:
First of all mass spells should be splitted for into single and mass versions...
I agree with you, I wish it was possible.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted October 31, 2017 04:08 PM |
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Yes. Spells should be ballanced. List from 0 to 69 is needed. Which is the best and which the worst.
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FfuzzyLogik
Known Hero
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posted November 01, 2017 09:15 PM |
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Its not really a question here but you re-write one more time some of non equilibrated things in game.
So, what you want here ? Make a mod to correct that ?
If so, just changing table shall be good to switch levels, mana costs and power. Then you can give a table and/or say "I tryed this, what you think about it ?" who shall make things advance...
Or you wanna to discuss about what "shall be done" ?
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FfuzzyLogik.
If I'm crazy ? Sure, because its madness to be normal...
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted November 01, 2017 09:44 PM |
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First step is to build spell ranking, second make mod.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 01, 2017 11:42 PM |
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@FfuzzyLogik
Well first I would like to hear peoples opinions and I have'nt decided if or how I will move spells around yet.
It just seems to me like many level 1 spells are very good, cheap and easy to get, especially Haste and Slow.
But we must consider that spells should be distributed evenly among levels, as it is now there are 15 level 1-4 spells and 9 level 5 spells. If we for example move Haste, Slow, Bless and Curse to level 2, we would also need 4 level 2 spells to go to level 1, that could be Precision, Weakness (counterpart to Stone Skin) and perhaps Remove Obstacle, I can't think of a fourth spell though.
If Animate Dead became level 4 we would need another level 4 to become level 3 and so on. And we need to think about creature resistances, for example Resurecction and Armageddon cannot be level 5 as they would suddenly affect Gold Dragons and thereby changing the rules of the game.
So there is a lot to think about...
But first of all I just wanted to hear what people thought about it.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 02, 2017 08:16 AM |
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This is what i currently use. I also made some spells a bit stronger and some a bit weaker. Works good for me. But it's personal taste.
(It's nearly identical to ReMagic 1.2)
Slow and Haste must be level three in my opinion 
Quicksand 1
Minefield 1
The Force Field 2
Wall of Fire 2
Earthquake 2
Magic Arrow 1
Ice lightning 2
A lightning strike 3
Explosion 5
Chain Lightning 4
Cold Ring 3
Fireball 3
Inferno 4
Meteor Shower 4
Death Wave 3
Turn Undead 3
Armageddon 5
Shield 1
Air Shield 1
Fire Shield 4
Defense: Air 1
Protection: Fire 1
Protecting Water 1
Protecting Earth 1
Counterspell 3
Removal of Spells 2
Magic Mirror 2
Heal 1
Resurrection 4
Animate Dead 4
Victim 4
Blessing 2
Curse 2
Bloodlust 1
Accuracy 1
Weakness 2
Stoneskin 2
Destruction 4
Prayer 5
Joy 1
Sadness 1
Luck 1
Failure 1
Haste 3
Slow 3
Executioner 2
Rabies 2
Titan's Thunder 5
Counterstrike 2
Berserk 5
Hypnosis 5
Forgetfulness 3
Blindness 3
Teleportation 3
Remove obstacle 1
Clone 4
Summon Fire 4
Summon Earth 5
Summon Water 3
Summon Air 2
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 02, 2017 08:28 AM |
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Thanks for posting that RerryR.
But some of those spells names are really weird. I guess you don't use an english version? Guess I can figure out most of them though.
Yeah perhaps Haste and Slow should be level 3, but since I made both weaker at advanced and expert levels, perhaps they should only be level 2.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 02, 2017 08:37 AM |
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Yes, some names are from Russian to Englisch google translator I guess 
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted November 02, 2017 11:00 AM |
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Edited by Baronus at 11:03, 02 Nov 2017.
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Baronus
If you dont know eng names just extract spell table from WoG or eng HotA. MMArchive very good tool.
And give mana costs can be modded too and ballanced. Effect too in part of spells.
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