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| Thread: 100 years later, Bolshevism is back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Galaad
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posted November 09, 2017 02:06 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Le Pen is trying to throw out the system, but so did Macron and he succeeded.
Not really appropriate thread, but I think this is 100% false. Macron is nothing more than the old with a young face and I've come to conclude the Le Pen family only exists as a scarecrow and gets paid for that.
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Macron did a brilliant campaign
$$$
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Salamandre
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posted November 09, 2017 02:34 AM |
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Is not 100% false if we look at facts. This guy came from nowhere and won the presidential in a matter of months - just like Trump, vs secular cocky dinosaurs whose jobs were politics for the last 40 years. He didn't define himself as right/left nor used the usual procedures or slogans to succeed, he didn't hire ANY of the dusty politicians in his team then he also uses a type of language which sometime is on spot and doesn't care about hurting bad habits - for me that sounds new. On the other side, yes, he sides with finances, he is EU puppet and will probably glue into complex and unpopular reforms as anyone else before. But the reality is there, the guy managed to beat left and right parties in one year where le Pen was trying that for 15 years without success. Respect.
Then we agree, he had 101% of the press in awe for him, all magnates to help his finances, thus all conditions were reunited to make him win. Nevertheless he didn't make errors, unlike every of the others candidates.
Galaad said:
I've come to conclude the Le Pen family only exists as a scarecrow and gets paid for that.
Le Pen does her job, which is infusing fear and shakiness in ... other political parties. They have to copy/paste some of her ideas either they lose. She will never win because the press does its propaganda job perfectly, however her glaive is constantly griming upon their necks. So yes, the simplest translation is scarecrow, but in the end she is very utile and forces the outcome. Doesn't matter how much left and right deny it, her convictions about identity, culture and security resonate quite well through Europe. Without her shadow, we would still have Hollande, I am sure of that.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
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posted November 09, 2017 02:58 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 03:14, 09 Nov 2017.
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Salamandre said:
Is not 100% false if we look at facts. This guy came from nowhere and won the presidential in a matter of months - just like Trump, vs secular cocky dinosaurs whose jobs were politics for the last 40 years.
What? He comes straight out from Rotschild, he was a minister before he hit puberty, he was completely placed by higher people, check is curriculum he's nothing like Trump.
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He didn't define himself as right/left nor used the usual procedures or slogans to succeed
Yeah he used other kinds of slogans, like "think Spring"...
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But the reality is there, the guy managed to beat left and right parties in one year where le Pen was trying that for 15 years without success. Respect.
Well that's the thing, Le Pen never won in 15 years because they never intended to win (well that's not the only reason obviouslybut is part of it). Fine that is only my conviction. You know, if the press didn't destroy Fillon close to the end I'm pretty sure he would have won. Mélenchon was not far behind either and he also got bad press treatment near the end.
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Nevertheless he didn't make errors, unlike every of the others candidates.
There was no more proof for what other candidates were accused of than his Bahamas banks sheenanigans but for him the press didn't quite accentuate as much as for the others.
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Le Pen does her job, which is infusing fear and shakiness in ... other political parties. They have to copy/paste some of her ideas either they lose. She will never win because the press does its propaganda job perfectly, however her glaive is constantly griming upon their necks. So yes, the simplest translation is scarecrow, but in the end she is very utile and forces the outcome. Doesn't matter how much left and right deny it, her convictions about identity, culture and security resonate quite well through Europe. Without her shadow, we would still have Hollande, I am sure of that.
Le Pen's job was to weaken the right and left parties by gaining enough of their voices, then lose vs Macron in second round, which she did perfectly.
Actually, the people who fell the most for the propaganda (well after Macron's supporters for first round -slightly above 20%), where Fillon and Mélenchons voters who changed their mind last minute for Le Pen.
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Salamandre
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posted November 09, 2017 03:31 AM |
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"He coming from nowhere": I meant outside the political world. The fact that he was a banker before is irrelevant, he still was totally unknown on the political scene.
As for le Pen, I don't believe there is some alternate reality where complex and mischievous conspiracies run in the background. She runs for the win - like everyone else, while battling with dishonest and inaccurate propaganda; to succeed at that you need both a sharp intelligence and historical knowledge, both providing the capacity of properly destroying inaccurate accusations, then you need some serious vocal support from the patriotic fringe. She isn't that brilliant so she stepped back and even became politically correct, then obviously french people, at least a noticeable part of them, have lost any affinities with their culture, heritage then the urgency of their survival as society fundaments; it has been taught to them that is ugly to even think about that. Sometimes I feel weird that is me, a foreigner, who is more attached to the culture that welcomed then formed me and want it to survive the longest possible.
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artu
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posted November 09, 2017 04:26 AM |
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What exactly is it that you see threatened, what may cease to exist 20 years from now?
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friendofgunnar
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posted November 09, 2017 05:49 AM |
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Kipshasz said:
Trump these days is pushing a tax cut for the middle class and small businesses - the F is wrong with that?
The problem with that is that Trump hasn't matched those tax cuts with spending cuts. In fact he originally tried to boost military spending by 30 billion. Right now the government is already spending around half a trillion dollars more in taxes than it takes in. US debt meanwhile around 20 trillion, which is around $62,000 for every man, woman, and child (and don't even think about saying that money is mostly owed to ourselves because the seniors with their 10K Tbills sure as hell aren't going to donate them to debt relief - it's still got to be repayed). This debt might not be such a concern if the population were expanding rapidly and the US had a near monopoly on industrial production,as it was after WW2, but it's not. The ratio of taxpayer to retiree keeps getting smaller and smaller and the health care industry continues to suck the life out of the middle class. And don't even mention how much a war with North Korea or Iran is going to cost. Eventually a point is going to be reached when the US can't roll over it's debt and the world's lenders will find a place to park their money where they can be sure they'll get it back. At that point the money will stop. This is Trump's seventh bankruptcy were building, only this time he's bringing down the entire country instead of just his casino.
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Salamandre
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posted November 09, 2017 05:55 AM |
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artu said:
What exactly is it that you see threatened, what may cease to exist 20 years from now?
That would be a very long and conflictual discussion, but in short I would say every bit of the hard earned values which allowed us -until now- to have a decent standard life, an homogeneous cultural environment, the freedom of speaking our mind, the satisfaction of praising, learning and be proud of our history and achievements. The free speech is increasingly censored, our history is now re-interpreted and subject to self-flagellation, one of the most successful civilizations is endlessly enduring accusations of racism and xenophobia while it did -in my opinion- all what was humanly possible to prove the opposite, at least in our modern times. Then our elites are obsessed by this ideology without any fundaments, the cult of diversity as they envision it as the apotheosis of a society.
But based on what? Like religion, diversity's backers promote the strengths while ignoring the weaknesses. "Our diversity is our strength" is a liberal mantra repeated mindlessly, often as a poor substitute for a reasoned argument. So you end in having partitioned territories, which have nothing in common, no culture to share, no laws or common history to respect. Putting more emphasis into cohesion, instead of diversity, would be a positive step for a progressive nation. Hard-selling diversity just exacerbates an already conflictual situation where we're balkanized into separate tribes.
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Zenofex
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posted November 09, 2017 07:06 AM |
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Quote:
The most pro-russia poster declares he WONT EVEN READ the article
That would be me, right? I think I said - and it's written up there, in my fist post here, that I won't read the whole article because its beginning is quite sufficient for me to declare it tendentious crap, which it is. There may or may not be some pearls of wisdom down there but after these initial paragraphs written exactly for people who would soak without any resistance or critical thinking marginal viewpoints, as long as they fit their own, I really doubt it. Knowing your zealous campaign against Trump here, I'd liken this to an article which starts with what an "unconstructive" leader Hitler was and next continues with comparing him to Hillary. How about that, eh?
Thanks for the "pro-Russia" label by the way, comrade Putin thinks better of me now so when he steamrolls over Europe with his Asian hordes, I'll be spared, having reputation and all. You should also think about your future.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 09, 2017 10:28 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 12:47, 09 Nov 2017.
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Salamandre said:
"He coming from nowhere": I meant outside the political world. The fact that he was a banker before is irrelevant, he still was totally unknown on the political scene.
You didn't even check anything did you? He was in PS already in 2006, then worked with Hollande in 2012, he wasn't inactive in the political scene either, remember El-Khomri law? That was him. He didn't just pop in a few months before the election like you say. There is many examples. The fact he also comes from Rotschild is irrelevant? And the financial/oligarchy lobby that influences ALL politicians worldwide is irrelevant too? If I'm not mistaken, I think even that brute Soral you admire agrees with me here.
Edit: Besides, Trump made a part of his campaign bashing on the medias, while Macron had the medias lead him to the throne, it's just the complete opposite.
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As for le Pen, I don't believe there is some alternate reality where complex and mischievous conspiracies run in the background.
I do, because conspiracies running in the background actually IS the political world in a nutshell. Sorry Le Pen family is extremely corrupted and maybe that is the reason everyone going there keeps leaving after some point, after they discover what this party really is about. You don't believe me, fine, but you'll be surprised if you see the list of all the people who went there then left.
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Salamandre
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posted November 09, 2017 03:04 PM |
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I don't deny that people move forth and back from any political movement but this is not about believing, you have some facts check to remember. FN went up to 22% (2012 -19%) in the last run, socialists (the immaculate and righteous) went down to 6% (2012 - 28%!!), republicans down to 21% (2012 - 25%). So it looks to me like much more people is leaving the traditional movements, guess they are not very fond about conspiracy theories. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
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posted November 09, 2017 03:14 PM |
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Salamandre said:
So it looks to me like much more people is leaving the traditional movements, guess they are not very fond about conspiracy theories.
But absolutely. Problem is a lot of times only facts get labeled as conspiracy theories. It is very easy to go into conspirationist case nowadays, quote an article or interview that goes against the established system which Macron IS part of, you're a conspirationist.
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Salamandre
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posted November 09, 2017 03:45 PM |
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Living in Paris and criticizing Macron, you're an anomaly. Feeling lonely at times?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 09, 2017 03:57 PM |
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I just avoid discussing politics. 
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