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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Star Wars VIII - What you think about it: SPOILERS
Thread: Star Wars VIII - What you think about it: SPOILERS This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 16, 2017 07:52 PM

Yes, there would be lot more interesting timelines in Jedi/Sith history but most people haven't even heard of legends like Bane or Revan. Never played Knights Old Rebublic myself but watched some cut scenes, two sides battling each others more equal levels, or so it seemed to my eyes anyway.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted December 17, 2017 01:58 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 02:38, 17 Dec 2017.

Ok so I actually saw the movie and it was mediocre.

The movie operates much like a video game and this not-very-long article explains why:

The Last Jedi Video Game Plot

I really am losing respect for both the intelligence and integrity of critics. The movie does not deserve to be rated as well as it is and I'm half inclined to say they're doing it out of peer pressure. Although reviews are still on the positive side among the general audience (it is Star Wars afterall and a lot of people including myself walk into it with rose tinted lens) you can clearly see a dip compared to the graying sell-outs that have a reputation they want to preserve.

Formulaic expensively-made Hollywood movie designed to sell as many tickets as possible. Enjoy.

As of this post it has 93% fresh by critics (cowards) on Rotten Tomatoes and 57% of audience liked it.
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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted December 17, 2017 02:32 AM

lol, does anybody else listen to youtube movie pundits besides me?  I prolly spend more time watching pundits than I do real movies.

Anyway, RedLetterMedia (guys who did Plinkett reviews) have done a series of vids making fun of how impossible it is for people in the biz to objectively view Star Wars.  

Just go to youtube and google "Nerd Crew".  The last isn't so funny but some of them I think I split my gut laughing so hard.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted December 17, 2017 11:16 AM
Edited by blob2 at 11:26, 17 Dec 2017.

friendofgunnar said:
lol, does anybody else listen to youtube movie pundits besides me?  I prolly spend more time watching pundits than I do real movies.


Yes, cause I want to listen to a bunch of a-holes instead of watching the movie myself. Just as I want to complete games by watching walktrough streams, so much joy...

Here's one interesting comment under the article Blizzardboy linked:

"The Last Jedi was all about the heroes failing. Thereís no more magic plot armor. Poe gets a lot of good people killed by his heroic plan in Act 1. Finn, Rose and Poe get a lot of good people killed by their heroic plan in Act 2. Luke gets a lot of good people killed 10 years ago by failing his failing pupil.

If you view the Last Jedi as a movie about failure and overcoming it and subverting Good Guy Hero movies, itís fantastic."

- point is, I hate movies where heroes fail

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 17, 2017 05:49 PM

I just saw the movie this afternoon and I have to say I have mixed feelings. Perhaps I simply lack a bit of source material that more clearly explains the background of people like Snoke or how widespread the foundation of the First Order is, but in its current state with the Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, it looks somewhat bleak and pale, compared to the Galactic Empire and the machinations of Emperor Palpatine.

The joke at the start was leaning towards slapstick a bit too much, if you ask me - Hux should have much sooner realised Poe was trolling him, and gave the order to open fire sooner, too - though the extent of the jokes tapered off somewhat further into the movie, became more subtle.

With regards to the characters, Kylo Ren and Hux came across much better than in The Force Awakens and had better mastered their role and position within the organisation. Luke's part was also great, in how he struggled with his failure. The biggest let-down for me was Snoke; I liked the way he acted when addressing first Kylo Ren and later on Rey as well, but then ... just like that, dead. Uh ok? Who was this guy, anyway? What is his background? Why was he such a powerful Force master, if he got tricked by such a weird Force flick with that lightsaber? But I guess we'll never know, now, as he's gone.

Luke's departure could have been a bit more emotional, somewhat more a tribute to the role he played in Episode 4 through 6, giving also a bigger sense of completion for his character. Now it was just basically poof and his cloak blew away in the wind. Didn't feel satisfactory for me. Although Del Toro's character had potential, it didn't live up to what it could have been. It might have been nicer if the audience were left a bit more in the dark about his true allegiance, for instance by tipping the scales in a subtle way into the favor of Finn and Rose right before departing. It would have left much more grey in his character rather than the harder black/white contrast his character ended up getting.

Where the Force Awakens ignored the "science" part of "science fiction" grossly in a few cases, I didn't think this was the case as much in this movie. The scene where Leia pulled herself back in with the Force was toe-curling. Force or not, no one can survive being exposed to open space for that long.

What I didn't understand, though, was why the First Order fleet was unable to overtake the rebel cruisers. Even if they couldn't overtake them with sublight engines, some of the Star Destroyers could have jumped into hyperspace (even if two jumps would be needed), only to reappear in front of the fleeing rebel ships, trapping them in between. Also, I expected vice-Admiral Hondo to turn the cruiser right around as soon as the transports had cleared it, to jump to hyperspace in exactly the way she did; she was going to die anyway, she knew that. Instead, she waited until about 20 of those transports had been blasted to pieces before deciding to take such action. Furthermore, such an immediate action could have thrown the First Order off, buying the escaping transports time before the First Order realised what had happened. The final battle on the planet felt odd ... there wasn't much of a battle at all. Thirtheen ramshackle groundspeeders against about as many heavy walkers, who halted at the perimeter edge and did nothing (despite the back mounted heavy artillery); and where were the ground troops? The rebel troops in the trenches had exactly nothing to shoot at. Changes to the choreography of that scene could have made that battle much more tense and interesting.

I'm not sure what we can expect from Episode 9. I saw the betrayel of Kylo Ren (against Snoke) already basically in the stage setting of The Force Awakens, but not in this finite form and shape. With both Snoke and Luke gone, it leaves two fledgling Force users to find out their role within the galaxy individually as well as with respect towards one another. I really liked the Force connection they shared (even though Snoke said he facilitated it, I doubt it's gone now that he's gone too) as well as how Luke managed to generate an image of himself; these are new Force powers. As such, I expect Episode 9 to be more of a spiritual journey, where both Rey and Kylo Ren explore the true nature of the Force, each coming from opposite sides to finally meet in the middle and establish the balance in the Force that the prophecy proclaimed. As it is, neither the First Order (do they have anything else but that handful of Star Destroyers anymore?) nor the Resistance (all they have is a handful of troops that fit inside the Falcon, no hardware whatsoever) are forces of significance anymore, having lost so much in this movie.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 17, 2017 07:23 PM

All the press here is unanimous: this is THE star wars movie, the best from all series, all news front pages. They also say  (daily) Trump is the worst president, so for once I have to agree, they are clueless in every matter.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 17, 2017 07:55 PM

Maurice said:
The biggest let-down for me was Snoke; I liked the way he acted when addressing first Kylo Ren and later on Rey as well, but then ... just like that, dead. Uh ok? Who was this guy, anyway? What is his background? Why was he such a powerful Force master, if he got tricked by such a weird Force flick with that lightsaber? But I guess we'll never know, now, as he's gone.

I have not yet seen the movie, but thank you for saving me the dough I would have payed to see it with this line.

The previous movie was a disaster and the only shred of light I had would be that Kylo Ren would improve and Snoke take more action. Just don't mess with that.
But of course the feminist-multiculture-clown team manages to mess with that and in the worst way possible.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 19, 2017 11:26 PM

Blizzardboy said:

As of this post it has 93% fresh by critics (cowards) on Rotten Tomatoes and 57% of audience liked it.


Duude, how can you honestly even look at audience ratings from either IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes? People vote there even when they haven's seen the movie, and can make multiple accounts.  Case in point there were tens of thousands of votes for Last Jedi before it was released.

If you want actual data on how audience likes a movie there is only Cinema Score that is reliable to an extent. They poll people coming from the theater, aka they had to see the movie. Guess what, The Last Jedi got an A.

But then again reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, BYEEE!
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted December 20, 2017 05:00 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 05:15, 20 Dec 2017.

When I made that post it wasn't all clear, but there is still a very real fan backlash that goes beyond haters from 4chan.

The movie has multiple problems and it is going to show in the next few weeks. It was guaranteed to sell big on the first weekend, but there's going to be millions of people out there who won't go a 2nd time.

'Coco' is a far superior movie to watch over Christmas.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 20, 2017 11:18 AM

Minion said:

If you want actual data on how audience likes a movie there is only Cinema Score that is reliable to an extent. They poll people coming from the theater, aka they had to see the movie. Guess what, The Last Jedi got an A.

So far I have watched over 15 reviews on YT and read more than 20, only 2 of them praised the movie but admitted fatal flaws, the rest roasted it straight through as a feminist movie with a ton of stupid decisions and illogical plot twists.

I believe those reviews are correct and that means that even another movie with Jar-jar would be better than more of what has been served already. I will not watch the movie unless anyone of my friends asks me and pays for all expenses.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted December 20, 2017 02:52 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 16:06, 20 Dec 2017.

I'm not sure what's wrong with it being "a feminist movie" [why? Because it has lots of female characters?] but apart from the humor in the movie going full retard, it is packed with long scenes that are pointless to the plot and a huge FALSE DILEMA that if Holdo had just opened her mouth and explained the plan in a few sentences instead of leaving the entire fleet in the dark while under threat of annihilation like a psychopath, the big conflict with Poe and the other heroes would not have existed.

I mean a lot movies are bound to have little holes here and there, and it is not necessarily a big deal for anybody who isn't a pedantic asswipe, but it was completely ludicrous. There are plot holes and then there are plot holes. What the hell is the matter with her? How are we suppose to take the drama between the characters seriously when the premise is moronic?
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2017 03:07 PM

Lol, what an age, even a Star Wars movie is debated through having multi-culturalist, feminist agendas and stuff... I haven't seen the movie yet but what is so feminist about it, having a female lead or what?

Also, art and showbiz usually consist of progressive people, especially if they are not performers/actors but writers/directors, the ones responsible for composing the material. That's because most people with a functioning imagination, a decent education and hence an open-mind dont turn out conservative: Big surprise there! It was going to be the same if you had lived in 1850, so live with it.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 20, 2017 03:39 PM

lol you make it sound like it was a QI-related issue.

Liberals believe government should do all the work - and therefore every time there is a social conflict they ask for prompt censure, laws limiting freedom of speech, special rights for minorities and full political indoctrination from structures conferring education, as schools and universities. Conservatives believe the individual should take his responsibilities, be considered and hired on only its skills and abilities then limit the power of the government, therefore every time there is conflict, they want an open debate based on each individual perspective and background. Liberals support welfare, including long-term welfare, while conservative oppose long-term welfare and believe that opportunities should be provided to make it possible for those in need to become self-reliant.  It is far more compassionate and effective to encourage people to become self-reliant, rather than allowing them to remain dependent on the government for provisions.


That was back in 1850, it is now, and will still exist 1000 years from now. And no, liberals are not more intelligent or creative, the only thing limiting your creativity is your own talent, cultural environment, skills and experience, not some vision of the political reality, which will probably change forth and back several times during your existence.

And about open mind, my view on it is that liberals have such open mind that their brain felt out, will not develop further so remain in the polite sphere.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2017 03:52 PM

Well, I'm not saying it's a strictly IQ related issue or all conservative people are stupid but statistically speaking, people with higher intelligence and better education usually tend to be progressive not conservative, that is quite a universal pattern no matter the culture or period. And trying to close the gap between starting conditions is not exactly disregarding skill or talent but since I have no idea about the specifics in France, I wont get into that, especially not in a SW thread.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 20, 2017 04:32 PM

No, that's not an universal pattern, or maybe in Turkey lol, seeing what conservative and progressive means there. Is interesting that you need so much to bring this idea about such superiority once again - you did it about 3 more times by the past, one could translate it as lacking confidence.

And yes, the idea that nowadays movies have a visible tendance to put priorities on delivering some ideological message is real. However, that always was the case, except that the message behind was of a better universality, as heroism, patriotism, courage, fidelity, belief in family structure and so on - well except the soviet and north korean propaganda movies, I speak about civilized world. Now is just about portraying minorities in order to look tolerant and "progressive", as you call it. And we observe the artistic result, movies are failing badly when they do so. The top roles in SW, for example, are now given based on other criteria than skill, talent and charisma and is not surprise that people rant against. Or maybe they just have awful recruitment sessions.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted December 20, 2017 05:01 PM

Homer171 said:
Thanks Drakon-Deus. Good to see you too

Yes, aim curious to see your opinion and are you leaning to dark or light side of the force


After seeing it I didn't hate it but I can't say I was crazy about it either. I disliked some of the decisions they made, especially to kill off Snoke...  At least he was cool in the few minutes he had, but I'm still disappointed.  



I thought the flashback to younger Luke and Ben Solo with Luke thinking to kill him was the best scene in the film. And it was nice to see Yoda again too.

The Rebels vs Empire formula again bored me, it was cool in the original trilogy, and I could tolerate it in Episode 7, but at this point I don't even know why they bothered to call them the Resistance and First Order if they were going to be pretty much the same. I miss the Battle Droids right now.

I guess we'll see Luke in Force ghost form again, but ultimately what they did with him was not what I wanted to see.


So I guess it's Kylo Ren and Rey as the wielders of two sides of the Force for the next one. This episode certainly could've been better, but it's not the worst way to spend 2 hours.

And to answer, I am rooting for Rey more than for young Solo, but that doesn't mean I don't feel the powerful temptation of the dark side









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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2017 05:18 PM
Edited by artu at 17:18, 20 Dec 2017.

Sal, if you look at the West, the field of intellectuals, artists, writers etc., you will have ten people who categorize themselves as progressive (or even if they dont categorize themselves as so, who are in solid conflict with conservative values) for each person who support conservative values. "Patriotism" is never cheered in the sense you imply after WW1, and before that it meant something else because wars were different and people were not usually directly witnessing the horrors of war. It IS a universal pattern, artists dont go with the flock, they have their own moral universe and that does not cope well with traditional ones. Also, as a single man over 40, who doesnt seem to be seeking a wife and having quite the opposite life style as far as I can observe, I dont think you are the one to preach about family values. Only 60 years ago, your own actions would be considered taboo by any regular conservative, keep that in mind, will you.

When it comes to SW, I dont think the new one involves bad actors who had been given the part because they are female or black or Asian or whatever. That is not the problem. It turned into a formulaic cash cow, but that has nothing to do with what we discuss here, it's basically how capitalism works. And guess who are more critical of such flaws of capitalism, the conservatives or the others? I also dont like if a movie is too forced to be politically correct but having a female lead or a black actor is not that. Did the guy who played Lando caused that in the original series? Back then, Princess Leia was also seen as a feminist figure by some, strong character, taking the initiative... Did that bother you?

Look at the most famous and lasting great minds of the late 19th and 20th Century from any field: Einstein, Chaplin, Freud, Marx, Nietzsche, Darwin, Rachmaninoff, Picasso, Wilde, Sartre, Adorno, Pablo Neruda, Charlie Parker... The list goes on. None of them can be defined as consevative. Let's go back further, the Enlightenment or the Renaissance is intrinsically progressive by nature. I find it a great dilemma that you cherish European values so much on the surface yet mock the progressive spirit that enabled them in the first place when it comes to practice. Can you imagine Nietzsche, and you call him a great thinker, praising patriotism or family values or religion? You yourself talk about how in classical music, each significant composer brought something revolutionary to the table, landed their own mark, yet, when it's about politics you turn into this turtle with a shell.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted December 20, 2017 06:23 PM

FFS you two. Watch the movie so you can comment with your opinions.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2017 06:26 PM

I did see the Force Awakens, so I can comment about the part about the casting. It's the same.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 20, 2017 06:34 PM

Drakon-Deus said:
And it was nice to see Yoda again too.


While it was nice to see Yoda again, I can't say I liked his looks. He didn't have the ghost-like sparkley stuff that former movies showed with Force ghosts and also his behaviour was more like the playful and naive appearance in Episode V before Luke learned he was a Jedi Master, not displaying his Jedi Master wisdom and calm. While in and of itself the joke about the page turner was actually funny, it didn't fit very well with Yoda's overall character.

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