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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Star Wars VIII - What you think about it: SPOILERS
Thread: Star Wars VIII - What you think about it: SPOILERS This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted December 20, 2017 06:36 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 18:37, 20 Dec 2017.

@Artu

They add an Asian female to the cast and she kisses Finn at the end. Also Kylo Ren comes out of the closet.

You knew in advance this was a spoiler thread.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2017 06:43 PM

And that's why they consider it "multi-culturism" propaganda? Well... In such a space opera, all the "aliens" represent different races of our world anyway. The Cantina in the New Hope is also multi-culturist propaganda then... I think the root of the problem is that people in general have become way too polarized about such issues and are edgy about every detail.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted December 20, 2017 06:55 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 19:44, 20 Dec 2017.

As far as I can tell most of the people whining about the film being too inclusive are white males with crappy or non-existent love lives. Of the Last Jedi's many issues, the cast isn't one of them. The directing was also acceptable. The production - in my opinion - sucked.

Edit:

I freaking loved Benecio del Toro from Sicario and would have loved to see his character further developed, but the movie is too busy dicking around with all sorts of other things that the characters don't interact with one another in a satisfying way. It's like there were 3 movies happening within a single movie and they only tie together at the very end, in a sloppy way.

I usually side with critics over fans. This one has me mystified. I honestly think it was the adult version of peer pressure and a lot of them secretly think it wasn't that good, but they were afraid to give a rotten score to a movie with strong female + minority leads. Showbiz culture is really big on that. That is my theory and I think it is a very rational one.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted December 20, 2017 07:45 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 19:46, 20 Dec 2017.

Rotten Tomatoes Spokesperson Dona Benson: Rotten Tomatoes claims that low audience score is authentic
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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posted December 20, 2017 11:37 PM

artu said:
you will have ten people who categorize themselves as progressive (or even if they dont categorize themselves as so, who are in solid conflict with conservative values)


In have no idea what are you talking about, what you call progressive and conservative. Progressivism is a philosophical concept which claims that progress within technology, science and economy are vital to humankind. Conservatives are people who generally votes for right wing, what that has to do with progress refusal or denial, I am clueless about your shortcut, using only those words simple semantics. Would be like me saying the left is fascist because fascists labeled themselves socialists.

The proper terms are liberalism and conservatism, and they have rather strict meaning, especially in USA. And saying 1 in ten people considers himself as progressive, I believe rather 10 in 10 do that, I do it, everybody does it, never meet someone saying "I don't want or like progress". Acknowledging that progress is vital however doesn't imply people must bow to liberals experiments, which, for the most, divide our societies. So, as political movement, the right wing is now majoritarian in western societies, mainly because people are tired to be taught how to think while so little positive effects.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2017 12:49 AM
Edited by artu at 00:51, 21 Dec 2017.

Look, the terminology may differ from country to country, period to period or even accorrding to the philosophical school of thought. The concept we talked about is pretty clear though from the beginning; there is always change in the world and there are ones who encourage it and ones who resist it. Of course, it is never black and white, you can be conservative about certain topics and progressive about others. You can defend a certain pace for change, suggest to take it slower. You may want change but in a different direction. But if we have to generalize for the sake of simplicity, artists, writers, intellectuals, people in the line of creative work are mostly on the progressive side of things. So, if for instance, gender roles are changing (which is a very long process that has been going on for centuries and the conservatives always reacted "enough is enough"), it's much less likely for showbiz people in StarWars to support the conservative side on this whinning feminazis are taking over everything, multi culturalism is killing our traditions etc. Not to mention, I find it ludicrous to define a movie as feminist because there are significant amount of female characters in it, that would be like finding a film too macho only because there are more male characters in it. Keep in mind that my comment was targeting a certain reaction of calling the movie feminist, multi-culturalist etc because of such reasons. So yes, on that level, Star Wars symbolism was always multi-culturalist then, the many alien races all over the place are "the others." I look at such whining as creating your own boogey man out of reaction to change and this level of "conservative" behavior in the most universal and literal sense of the word is something that creative people are usually against.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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posted December 21, 2017 02:23 AM

People don't complain about having black and female actors in a movie, they complain about the decision to put mediocre black actors or mediocre females, to promote "diversity". No one ever complained about the Rock or Samuel Jackson, neither about Natalie Portman or Carrie Fischer, but also when you put such legends in a movie, they do not really represent the "diversity", which as concept means "giving a chance to an oppressed minority". I would love that SW continues to hire the best of the best and make us dream, instead of hiring unknown actors with the charisma of an amoeba, which for me has no rational explanation other than being PC.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2017 02:46 AM
Edited by artu at 02:47, 21 Dec 2017.

Well, as I said, I did watch the first one and I dont really think that the female lead or the Finn guy are doing insufficient work in terms of acting. It is obvious they didn't pick stars on purpose because that imposes a different psychology on the audience. They didnt prefer the actors to be the priority. Although not comparable, since it wasnt this multimillion dollar franchise back then (most studio executives didnt even think it was going to be a hit), the first trilogy didnt have any big stars (except maybe Alec Guiness) either and neither Carrie Fischer nor Mark Hamill are extraordinary actors, they just match their part, so does these new guys. There is no casting fiasco for the sake of diversity in the new films, there are A LOT of problems but that's not one of them. Making up such a problem, indicates to me a behavior where people start to hold responsible their boogey man for everything whether relevant or not, like some Americans during the Cold War blaming communism for any trouble you can imagine or Islamists blaming America for every little thing that goes wrong etc.
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Minion
Minion


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posted December 21, 2017 06:04 AM

Blizzardboy said:
Rotten Tomatoes Spokesperson Dona Benson: Rotten Tomatoes claims that low audience score is authentic


Yet we have no idea if the people voting have even seen the movie.
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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


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posted December 21, 2017 08:52 AM

Does Rey do anything of consequence in the movie? or does she just get carried along for the ride?

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Blizzardboy
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posted December 21, 2017 09:00 AM

Kylo Ren is the most significant person to the plot in TLJ.
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Blizzardboy
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posted December 21, 2017 09:02 AM

@Minion:

Maybe not but either way it is obvious that the movie isn't getting a great reception.
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Blizzardboy
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posted December 21, 2017 09:11 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 09:11, 21 Dec 2017.

"Not my Luke Skywalker" Mark Hamill talks about his disappointment with the character.
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Maurice
Maurice

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posted December 21, 2017 01:03 PM
Edited by Maurice at 13:05, 21 Dec 2017.

friendofgunnar said:
Does Rey do anything of consequence in the movie? or does she just get carried along for the ride?


Well, to summarize:
- She trains with a reluctant Luke;
- She gets a Force connection with Kylo Ren;
- She decides to run off and confront him as she believes she can turn him back to the Light;
- She gets delivered to Snoke, after meeting Kylo Ren;
- She and Kylo fight off the Imperial Guard like guardians after Kylo kills Snoke;
- She escapes and heads to Crait with the Falcon to rescue what's left of the Resistance;

End of movie. There are multiple allusions to the fact that Rey is indeed a reincarnation of The First Jedi (she sees her own reflections in a Force like vision, Yoda says that she embodies everything that's written in the old Jedi texts and Luke mentions how her Force powers are raw - just like Kylo's).

@ artu & Salamandre: could you take the off-topic, non-Star Wars related discussion elsewhere? Thanks.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


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posted December 21, 2017 01:27 PM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 13:41, 21 Dec 2017.

Maurice said:
Drakon-Deus said:
And it was nice to see Yoda again too.


While it was nice to see Yoda again, I can't say I liked his looks. He didn't have the ghost-like sparkley stuff that former movies showed with Force ghosts and also his behaviour was more like the playful and naive appearance in Episode V before Luke learned he was a Jedi Master, not displaying his Jedi Master wisdom and calm. While in and of itself the joke about the page turner was actually funny, it didn't fit very well with Yoda's overall character.


That is true, his appearance and style were not like I expected either, but I really liked what he told Luke, especially the part about failure being the greatest teacher. It was exactly what Luke needed to understand.

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Homer171
Homer171


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posted December 22, 2017 02:25 AM

Few thinks

Thanks from the input. It was nice to read your opinions.

I know, I started this SPOILERS thing but don't you ruin the 'magic' behind the movies by looking all those spesific reviews and reading what will happen even if you haven't seen the bloody thing yet. Understandable if strongly against new SW in general and have little to zero desire to ever watch it. But, hearing "comments like" thanks from the warnings I will not go watch it now.. Didn't you kill the change for it by yourself when looking up all in advance? Not by this movie alone but in general.

Well, that's just me, always want to be in dark as possible. Now general opinions what people have said about some movies is it good or bad, can sometimes and SHOULD looked upon as there's then less misses and more hits. Everyone want's to invest time and money things they might enjoy. You don't go still asking and saying; 'Have you seen Usual Suspects?' -"No, what movie was that again?" -'It's the one with this gimp who fool's everyone and is the real villain at the end.' Maybe, it's just me but movies should have their secrets discovered at the screening.


Lastly, Artu and Sal, get a room you two, geez

P.S if you haven't seen Usual Suspects, aim sorry
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Elvin
Elvin


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posted December 24, 2017 08:08 PM

That was fun if very, very stupid On the bright side I enjoyed the different settings, creatures, lightsaber tricks and new force uses. Finally some new things after an originality-deprived previous installment. But what is the most noteworthy in that movie is the theme of failure and... unexpected amounts of trolling. There is so much trolling in this movie, some aimed at the audience, some to its own characters.

Snoke failed to make an impression before but he certainly did now. I enjoyed his presence, got interested in what part he played before, what was his relationship to Luke and then he just died. Lol? I kinda approve of his trollsome ending but really, there was so much more they could do with him. Unless he returns as a force ghost but afaik that's only something a very select few jedi have managed, at least during the two trilogies. Speaking of which..

Force ghosts can take an active role?! If yoda can pop up anywhere to smite stuff with lightning, imagine what damage he could do in hit&run attacks! So.. why didn't he? Too easy? Too much bs to swallow? Moving on.

Luke's first scene was a total troll move to the fans. I laughed my @ss off but I can understand if it annoyed another. Mark Hamill has said that the character does not feel his anymore, that this would not have happened after Lucas. But afaik Luke in return of the jedi could well have gone down the dark path and what probably kept Lucas from this ending was increased toy sales. Those beautiful toy sales, nom nom. But I can see why Luke could end up a bitter old man, life happens. What doesn't just happen is visit your nephew in the dead of night, to probe his mind, consider killing him and then ignite your lightsaber for good measure. What the snow was that? You don't just instinctively unsheathe a murderous weapon, just like you don't visit people when they're asleep to check up on their dark side levels. What would he have said to his sister next morning? Sorry, I randomly decided to murder your son because I suddenly realized his heart was full of darkness? Bs. His last stand was a nice touch except.. He created a simulacrum across the galaxy, that droids could see and was capable of physical interaction all the while being perfectly aware of its environment down to the tiniest detail? Exactly how clairvoyant is Luke? Even without training jedi, he could have helped the resistance like nobody else, just by scrying faraway places or manifesting a bomberman clone in enemy lines. Not jedi way? He was grey enough as it was. And he didn't tell his sister that it was an act to buy them time? Trolling her as he was trolling Kylo? Or because the viewers would not be surprised at Poe's realization? Amagad. I liked his ending though, literally fading into the twin sunset.

Poe was.. a hotheaded idiot that I didn't grow particularly fond of. Honestly, Leia was too kind to just demote him. And his first scene trolling was kindergarten level. And then that woman that took over after Leia was out, she led Poe to start a mutiny because she couldn't explain her plan in a line or two of dialogue? And then she waited till the escaping ships were mostly decimated to turn around and ram the enemy ship with light speed and her shields had not ran out by then. Okaay.

But Kylo, I liked him better. He's still vulnerable but less of a man-child than before. The force connection he shared with Rey was a good choice, it brought them closer and allowed them to develop a measure of understanding and respect for each other - despite the distance between them. I don't care about redemption theories but he is becoming a better adversary to Rey and less embarrassing to himself.

Rey I don't feel strongly about but her special snowflake status is still rubbing me the wrong way. Not only did did they not explain her ridiculous powers but Yoda went as far to say that she is the embodiment of jedi teachings. I give up, she is simply too special for words.

Finn and his Chinese girlfriend I care even less about but their last moment really raised an eyebrow. She rammed him without considering he could die from the impact and left him exposed in the middle of enemy territory to teach him a Disney message? Seriously guys!

In short it comes down to feeling dissatisfied with the way the director tried to surprise the viewers, just like lotr did. But we can see through the bs and how damaging that is for the characters that end up looking so damn idiotic. But as long as it keeps the plot going huh? Overall it's a fun pop corn film but if you make the mistake of looking at it seriously, you'll be disappointed.
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Blizzardboy
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posted December 24, 2017 09:15 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 21:15, 24 Dec 2017.

I didn't even find it fun. I never at any point felt like any of the characters were in danger, except when Finn went banzai and was about to kamikaze into the death gun thing, and by then I was so disappointed with the movie that I didn't care if he lived or died.

This guy sufficiently tears the movie to pieces.
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friendofgunnar
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posted December 24, 2017 11:47 PM

heheheheh, all this white hot rage is how I felt about TFA.  I have a feeling this entire wheel is going to go around again in two years.

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Elvin
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posted December 25, 2017 11:35 AM

I feel for this guy
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