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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: With Sword and Fire. Valeska
Thread: With Sword and Fire. Valeska This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 22, 2018 12:02 PM

With Sword and Fire. Valeska

Hi,

I've been stuck for a couple of days having no idea how to pass Valeska with 3x9 Griffins and 30 Archers. I have (and there is the only possible way, I'm afraid) 4 Vampire Lords + Curse Spell.

It seems obvious that we should restore on the Archers as they are weeker in defense skill. And I think the Curse spell should be cast Griffin stacks one-by-one. But still I'm dead on 4-5 round. The vampires are not able to recover due to: 1. very high morale of the Griffins; 2. 3 stacks (2x Griffins + 1xArchers) attacking them.

I see the following points:
1. it's impossible to try to hide between the obstacles to allow only 1-2 stacks attacking , because we're actually forced to recover on and attack Archers. They are killing 1 Vampire per turn even with broken arrow. So there is only one place we can use.

2. I don't see the point of splitting 4 Vampires into a few stacks. Tries that, but they are dying faster due to less damage and less recovery.

Just give me a hint
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firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted January 22, 2018 03:41 PM

A clever use of the Wait command (to maximize drained life) and targeting the strongest-hitting stack (griffins) might help.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted January 22, 2018 05:13 PM

You either go with a 4x VL stack and use the wait command properly or you set your VLs to 3 and 1 and bait the griffins to deal with your 3 VLs while the 1x VL invites themselves to the archers.
You can also roll with VLs in two groups of 2. You rotate them between the griffins and the archers (make sure you have the movement distance capped so that a griffin does not go wayward and attack your vampire at the archers).

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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 22, 2018 07:12 PM

Ebonheart said:
You either go with a 4x VL stack and use the wait command properly or you set your VLs to 3 and 1 and bait the griffins to deal with your 3 VLs while the 1x VL invites themselves to the archers.
You can also roll with VLs in two groups of 2. You rotate them between the griffins and the archers (make sure you have the movement distance capped so that a griffin does not go wayward and attack your vampire at the archers).


not sure I understand. If I split 3/1 and 1 goes to the archers, this 1x stack is dead on the 1st round, because one of the griffins beats it.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted January 22, 2018 09:15 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 21:17, 22 Jan 2018.

What I mean is that you allow the griffins to cross the field so that they are seperated from the archers. You then position your 3x stack so that the griffins will chase and attack it while your 1x VL will harass the archers.
Edit: Rotate the curse spell. If your 1x VL gets into trouble with the archer stack then use 1x on it, otherwise save the curses for the griffins.

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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 23, 2018 09:27 AM

Ebonheart said:
What I mean is that you allow the griffins to cross the field so that they are seperated from the archers. You then position your 3x stack so that the griffins will chase and attack it while your 1x VL will harass the archers.
Edit: Rotate the curse spell. If your 1x VL gets into trouble with the archer stack then use 1x on it, otherwise save the curses for the griffins.


perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but on the 1st round I position VLs split 3/1 on the 4th hex from the left (max distance for advanced tactics) and wait. First archers fly to the 3 VLs - that's ok. But as soon as I hit the archers with 1 VL they fly to him and it's killed within one round.

Another approach: if I stay at the very left, i.e. no tactics used, with both stacks, then yes, the griffins fly over to 3 VLs and don't distract for the one hitting archers. But still I'm not able to recover with 3x8-9 Griffin stacks (2 cursed). The one with archers is also not able to recover due to morale given to the archers
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted January 23, 2018 11:19 AM
Edited by Ebonheart at 11:23, 23 Jan 2018.

I wish I could paint your picture but let me try to explain the tactic.

You want to have 3x VLs dealing with the 3x Griffin stacks. While 1x VL distracts the archers.

This means your 3x VLs are on the left side of the map and your 1x VL on the right side.

Now here's the deal, you want to position your 3x VL stack so that can reach to attack it. Hence you will not strike the griffins, you just merely move your 3x VLs up and down on the LEFT side of the battle field.
I state it again, you do not attack the griffins. You merely wait, let 1x stack (curse it) to hit you, then you fly down 9 spaces. The griffins will follow, and once again, only the cursed griffin will be able to hit you.
Rinse and repeat. This worked for me and while I do not have your skills/stats or the enemy hero's along with the field, I hope this can work for you.

Edit: Take heed: For when you do special challenges like this, always rule out the chance of morale, for it is such a potent factor that it can turn any battle against you and thus ruin the entire game, while your positive morale will hardly ever be of use to you.

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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 23, 2018 02:04 PM

Ebonheart said:
I wish I could paint your picture but let me try to explain the tactic.

You want to have 3x VLs dealing with the 3x Griffin stacks. While 1x VL distracts the archers.

This means your 3x VLs are on the left side of the map and your 1x VL on the right side.

Now here's the deal, you want to position your 3x VL stack so that can reach to attack it. Hence you will not strike the griffins, you just merely move your 3x VLs up and down on the LEFT side of the battle field.
I state it again, you do not attack the griffins. You merely wait, let 1x stack (curse it) to hit you, then you fly down 9 spaces. The griffins will follow, and once again, only the cursed griffin will be able to hit you.
Rinse and repeat. This worked for me and while I do not have your skills/stats or the enemy hero's along with the field, I hope this can work for you.

Edit: Take heed: For when you do special challenges like this, always rule out the chance of morale, for it is such a potent factor that it can turn any battle against you and thus ruin the entire game, while your positive morale will hardly ever be of use to you.



Here are the steps if I got you right:

1. before the battle start:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/6354/6GOktb.jpg


2. 1xVL hit the archers, 3x stack is to be moved to the highlighted square. This square is reachable by ALL 3 Griffin stacks.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/378/x15R7P.jpg

3. computer moves, situation after that (battle lost)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/522/fkJT7B.jpg


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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2018 02:20 PM

bytes85 said:
The vampires are not able to recover due to: 1. very high morale of the Griffins;

On this map, if you select the starting bonus "Artifact", then it will always be the Spirit of Oppression.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 23, 2018 02:57 PM
Edited by Maurice at 14:58, 23 Jan 2018.

bytes85 said:
2. 1xVL hit the archers, 3x stack is to be moved to the highlighted square. This square is reachable by ALL 3 Griffin stacks



As far as I can see, you moved your single VL too soon to the archers. You have to lure the Griffins first with your other VL stack. While that stack of 3 VL's is keeping the Griffins busy, your single VL is working on the Archers. That single VL should not get engaged by the Griffins whatsoever.
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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 23, 2018 03:42 PM

Maurice said:
bytes85 said:
2. 1xVL hit the archers, 3x stack is to be moved to the highlighted square. This square is reachable by ALL 3 Griffin stacks



As far as I can see, you moved your single VL too soon to the archers. You have to lure the Griffins first with your other VL stack. While that stack of 3 VL's is keeping the Griffins busy, your single VL is working on the Archers. That single VL should not get engaged by the Griffins whatsoever.


ok, I leave 1x stack at the leftmost position initially and hit "wait" on it. The 3 fly so that only 1 Griffin stack is able to reach them. This way on the 1st move all the Griffins are distracted by 3x VLs. OK. After the 1st move, 2 Griffin stacks are cursed, BUT 1 of them doesn't want to stay with VLs, but flies to the Archers and help them killing my VL:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/4053/5xWhf0.jpg

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted January 23, 2018 08:57 PM

Make sure you position them so that you bait all 3 without allowing 1x to be within striking range of your 1x VL.

On a side note, I have not even done this map I think but darn does it feel good to notice the skills persist.

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Blader87
Blader87

Tavern Dweller
posted January 30, 2018 07:44 PM
Edited by Blader87 at 21:35, 30 Jan 2018.

Perhaps, it is not the best place to to put my reply but...I didn't want to make a new thread. Can anyone tell me how do you kill those freaking horned demons without loosing a single unit? I have spent hours on this and I couldn't find a solution I split my marksmen into 2 stacks (29 and 1). Is it a good setting to start with? Or maybe I should leave it as it is? Or make another 1-unit stack? Once I was really close to make it, but one demon stack makes a movement which completely ruins all my efforts I know that it is doable, but...I run out of any constructive ideas. Please, I'll be gratefull for any help! Whoever won this battle, could you give some screens or sth?
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 31, 2018 08:05 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 20:40, 31 Jan 2018.

So I reached this step, and am too hopelessly stuck.
Ebonheart's suggestions do not work, and it seems he didn't even play it

Wait do not work because the archers take out 60 HP off the 3x stacks which now becomes 1.5x and too fragile to stay alive even a few turns. How can you possibly let only one stack of griffins hit you per turn while keeping them away from the 1x stack which also sucks (pun intended) in dealing with the archers alone.

At the end, the archers kill the 1x stack (even without help from the griffins) and the griffins kill the thinned-out 3x stack. The griffins do not stupidly follow the 3x stack if they can't hit it; they immediately go to help the archers.

This turned out to be the one of the most helpless cases (the battles won with the firewall spell were admittedly worse, but the AI was stupid enough to jump in the fire, so that's how it passed).

Any tips?


EDIT: OK, I did it by keeping the VL's intact as a single stack. Attack the archers first, but after cursing the closest Griffin stack. Then, curse the next Griffin stack and keep attacking the archers until they're almost done, and then start attacking the Griffins. Refresh the curse as needed. Done.


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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 31, 2018 11:08 PM

Blader87 said:
Perhaps, it is not the best place to to put my reply but...I didn't want to make a new thread. Can anyone tell me how do you kill those freaking horned demons without loosing a single unit? I have spent hours on this and I couldn't find a solution I split my marksmen into 2 stacks (29 and 1). Is it a good setting to start with? Or maybe I should leave it as it is? Or make another 1-unit stack? Once I was really close to make it, but one demon stack makes a movement which completely ruins all my efforts I know that it is doable, but...I run out of any constructive ideas. Please, I'll be gratefull for any help! Whoever won this battle, could you give some screens or sth?


Hi,

somehow I was able to pass them with all archers split by 5 in each stack and 1 fly. I couldn't recreate the win, but it was split this way according to my saves

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bytes85
bytes85

Tavern Dweller
posted January 31, 2018 11:09 PM

thGryphn said:


EDIT: OK, I did it by keeping the VL's intact as a single stack. Attack the archers first, but after cursing the closest Griffin stack. Then, curse the next Griffin stack and keep attacking the archers until they're almost done, and then start attacking the Griffins. Refresh the curse as needed. Done.




will try that, but I'm afraid I tried as it's the most obvious option. Maybe I'm using the wrong strategy with curse
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 01, 2018 07:36 AM

bytes85 said:
thGryphn said:


EDIT: OK, I did it by keeping the VL's intact as a single stack. Attack the archers first, but after cursing the closest Griffin stack. Then, curse the next Griffin stack and keep attacking the archers until they're almost done, and then start attacking the Griffins. Refresh the curse as needed. Done.




will try that, but I'm afraid I tried as it's the most obvious option. Maybe I'm using the wrong strategy with curse


Funny enough, it had not worked for me either in my first couple of tries. I don't remember why. Maybe I had focused on attacking the griffins, instead of the archers. Definitely keep attacking the archers for fast recovery. In the meantime, one griffin stack thins out with your retaliations. When the archer stack is almost finished, I started attacking the 9x Griffin stack which had not received any damage. It starts thinning out, and the other Griffin stack dies away, then the other stack comes in (Curse before first attack).

I don't believe any other strategy would work, as even this one (with a strong-as-it-gets VL stack recovering fast as possible) is right on the edge.


Aside from 3 or 4 battles (maybe 5?), including the 2 battles you win with firewall spell and a few others that relied on randomness (at least, that was my observation), this is a fun map really thought-through challenges.

Kudos to the mapmaker!

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted February 01, 2018 05:30 PM

Sad to hear you do not understand the tactic. I believe you do it wrong by moving the VL stack from the left to the right and vice versa instead of up and down on the left side. When I do this, no gryphons break off.

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Blader87
Blader87

Tavern Dweller
posted February 01, 2018 06:46 PM

bytes85 said:

Hi,

somehow I was able to pass them with all archers split by 5 in each stack and 1 fly. I couldn't recreate the win, but it was split this way according to my saves



Thx for the adviece. I think my skills are not good enough to complete this. Now, I would like just to watch some gameplay video of this map I definitely give up.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 02, 2018 06:44 AM
Edited by thGryphn at 06:47, 02 Feb 2018.

Ebonheart said:
Sad to hear you do not understand the tactic. I believe you do it wrong by moving the VL stack from the left to the right and vice versa instead of up and down on the left side. When I do this, no gryphons break off.


I understand it just fine, thank you.

It just doesn't work. As I said, the archers take out 60 hitpoints off the 3x VL stack in round 1, which means they're now a 1.5x stack that becomes easy prey for the griffins. Further, there is simply no way to make it so that only one stack of griffins attack that 1.5x stack of VL. Each turn two of them attack it (it wouldn't be able to handle a single stack, even cursed, because it simply cannot recover fast enough), which means the third stack (instead of waltzing around doing nothing as you would hope, go after the 1x stack that's attacking the archers. That 1x stack, by the way, is dying off at the hands of the archers even without help from the griffins (you can tell by seeing their diminishing hit points).

So, your "tactic" fails in so many ways that I call it a complete BS, until you show me a video where you use it to beat this battle, at which point I'll know to apologize.


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